Yep, A Fila.....

Discussion in 'General Mastiff Discussion' started by Rugers-Kris, Sep 27, 2012.

  1. BlackShadowCaneCorso

    BlackShadowCaneCorso Super Moderator Staff Member

    While I might like to be a little more the recluse at this point in time it isn't possible, especially with a family our size and with young kids now :) I will have a LGD I think at some point in the future but will have a place to put the dog up when we expect company, otherwise the area will be posted and we will be back in the woods so there shouldn't be anyone just happening up the long driveway. I think you are doing great!
     
  2. Rugers-Kris

    Rugers-Kris Active Member

    Thanks!! With my kids grown,with kids of their own (We have Sunday dinners as a family at my house) It makes it a lot easier for me to commit to having enough time for this type of dog and because I am a homebody the majority of my time is spent at home, other than work(and I am hoping to change the whole work thing within the next couple years as well which will allow me to be a REAL homebody, I hope. But either way, other than work I am almost always at home and as a rule I don't get company. Once I have my house on the three acre lot that I bought, space won't be an issue, I will install doggie doors so that when I am not there, it won't be an issue for the dogs to get in and out on their own, fencing will be secure as I am already planning that so, no issue. (I actually have this elaborate fencing plan that will allow options for parts of the yard which will make it so that I can control how much of the property can be accessed by the dogs at any given time and still allow for them to have full roam of the entire property for security purposes when needed). I have looked into this full length metal door/gate thing that they sell which will provide the dogs a large portion of the house (instead of a room) to access on the occasion that they need to be "put up". Look at me, I am rambling..I apologize. LOL Anyway, I guess my point is that I really am putting an immense amount of thought into this so that I can own this breed safely and still be able to enjoy them and give them the best of life as well. I'll shutup LOL I do appreciate your support very much. :)e at this point in time it isn't possible, especially with a family our size and with young kids now :) I will have a LGD I think at some point in the future but will have a place to put the dog up when we expect company, otherwise the area will be posted and we will be back in the woods so there shouldn't be anyone just happening up the long driveway. I think you are doing great![/QUOTE]

    ---------- Post added at 08:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:35 PM ----------

    Wow, that post managed to get all jumbled with what you posted some how. :-/
    [/QUOTE]
     
  3. Rugers-Kris

    Rugers-Kris Active Member

    Wow, that post managed to get all jumbled with what you posted some how. :-/
    [/QUOTE]
     
  4. angelbears

    angelbears Active Member

    Juan, you really didn't give us apples or oranges. The facts you have given are not disputed. PSC, wrote the CAFIB standard twice. We all agree with that. Where is the proof that his standard is based on fact. His standard is his opinion.

    I don't know about the military stuff but if the Fila did track down slaves and not harm them I don't see why a well trained Fila could not perform in the military given the right situation. I do know that there was one SAR Fila out there.
     
  5. dogman#1

    dogman#1 Active Member

    Drew had a cadaver dog if Im not mistaken and if I remember correctly he couldnt do reg "live" folks becuase of that issue but dont quote me on that. EVERY standard in the world is the person that is writing it rendition of what they see. So I ask some simple questions... Since CBKC has had at least 3 standards since its inception which one do you guys choose to follow and why? also what if they changed the standard again and your own dogs dont fit it (as most of the current cbkc dogs dont right now) what would you do? would you not call your dog a fila or will it still be a fila and if it is how can it be considered one if it doesnt fit any standard?

    BTW I have seen the info that Filas had tracked slaves but I never seen anywhere were it said that they didnt harm the slave they tracked.
     
  6. angelbears

    angelbears Active Member

    2 standards or 3 standards not a big jump there. Honestly, I don't care one way or the other. I don't breed, I don't make money off them and I don't think I will ever buy another one. I'm getting too old to handle them. The only way I'll get another one is if one needs to be rescued and I think I can handle it. I sure in hell will not be asking if it is CAFIB or not.

    The world was flat but then we found out it was round. Things evolve. PSC changed his mind. We now know that the world is round, we have pictures from space that proves it. What provable facts do you have?

    As far as the slaves go, the Fila takes it's name from the Portuguese word "filar", which means "to hold or secure", not maul.

    BTW, if you can provide 3 documented cases were a Fila has mauled or killed someone in the US, I will give 100.00 to any 501c charity of your choice. I'm not talking about a single bite.
     
  7. mountainfila

    mountainfila Active Member

    Well if i remember my history, i do believe slaves were bought and sold, hence costing money, so filas were ment "to hold" the slave until the master got to them. Also what good is a slave if its all chewed up and cant work the fields?? Maybe its true that they killed the slaves but very highly unlikely as im sure no one likes throwing money away, doesnt matter what century lol just sayin:eek:
     
  8. aceoutdoor

    aceoutdoor New Member

    Slaves in that region and at that time were not treated, valued or viewed at all the same as slaves were here in the US as we know it. If you back talked down there, you weren't just whipped, you were killed, cut up, fed to sharks who were killed and fed to the other slaves. Many were prisoners as well. Sorry to put that picture in your head, but the Portuguese were known for not messing around in that area. It was my understanding that most of the Portuguese's slaves were "raw" and not put thru conditioning camps because they liked to take care of that themselves.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2012
  9. allsierra123

    allsierra123 New Member

    "Does this shark taste a little slavey to you? " LOL ok sorry that may be a little to much.
     
  10. dogman#1

    dogman#1 Active Member

    Why yes. it does now that you mention it.

    Ace, you are correct, slaves actually cost alot of money here in the USA and were therefore "taken care of" as crazy as that sounds. slaves over there like in every other country that was taken over were indigenous people and were easy and plentiful to get.. in the USA they were shipped from another continent.

    Angel, and mountain... do you think that they put erasers at the tip of the fila's teeth back then? have you ever been before? hell I have been bit by dalmations that left scars on me as well as cocker spaniels. Have you ever seen video of a fila on a boar? after it is over there is blood everywhere... the "holding" is done with their mouth and that mouth has some very nasty teeth in it stuck in a VERY strong jaw. it will not only tear right through your skin but it can also snap bones, they weren't being held down by pillows. Also it served as a warning not to run away to the other slaves.
     
  11. mountainfila

    mountainfila Active Member

    Has anyone ever put on a full bite suit and helmut and aggitated an off leash fila? I think someone did a long long time ago but cant remember, what im getting at is how does a fila react after the attack?

    I will not get into the million year debate about cbkc vers cafib, im done with that, when they change something in a standard its not a drastic change that it will affect the whole look of the dog, hell the cafib dogs of today look nothing like the cafib filas of a 100 years ago as well as the cbkc filas do not look the same, its called evolution.

    On that note, i have had cbkc filas for 20 years and they have exceeded my expectations by far as looks, health, intelligence, these dogs are alot smarter then people give them credit and memories like elephants. A close bond with a fila is like no other dog out there, they want to be with you no matter what, i take mine everywhere i can take them, even if its just to the corner store, because i have taken them everywhere since pups, they meet my friends, only have a handfull of friends and only some of them come over, do they raise holy hell when they show up in the drive way, yes, do they let them in the gate, nope, not till i go out and let them in, then the dogs go lay down somewhere normaly on my feet and watches and they do not bother the guests for pets, as soon as my friends leave, the dogs do not let them back in the yard after they have left the yard. The meter reader must have to change his undies after coming to my house, we keep the dogs in when he shows up and they FREAK at the window he has to walk past to get to the meter lol they look like a fila, they act like a fila, must be a fila

    Had a big shopping trip today into the big city so i will post more tomorrow, very tired
     
  12. dogman#1

    dogman#1 Active Member

    You got pictures of CAFIB filas in 1912? There was no CAFIB back then so in a way you are correct. However since pictures of CAFIB dogs have been around they do look the same and obviously as well when PSC wrote the CAFIB standard. That same thing could not be said about the non CAFIB dogs unless you like a specific type but just tell me which one you like... the basset hound fila, the neo fila, the EM fila, the great dane fila, or maybe somewhere in between those. There are also many different ways for those "filas" to act ie, protective (like they should), like a lab which they should not or somewhere in between. There is no doubt when you are looking at a dalmation why should there be a doubt when you look at any other dog breed? I have no doubt you love your dogs and I have no doubt that your dogs behave the way you want them to. Every single time I have seen a fila hit a person whether that be in a suit or a sleeve it has grabbed and pulled not just grab and sit.
     
  13. chuckorlando

    chuckorlando New Member

    Well It aint a fact that cafib is the right standard. Thats opinion. A fact is un disputable. What i fact is some dude who had no business writting a standard was comissioned to write one. That standard did'nt work so he wrote another one. What is a fact is there were 100's of varieties of Fila's in the country. If they were 100%, 50% fila, mixed in 1972 or mixed in 1792, there were 100's of variants.

    To pick... Yes pick the standard, he used his opinion. His opinion was based off of the looks he was seeing, and the theories he was learning. So the whole ckbc/cafib deal is just that, theory. There are no facts you can offer to prove anything as no man knows the true make up of the Fila.

    Yes thi person admitted to this, that one wrote that, this guy signed this..... That changes nothing in the big picture. The big picture started long long ago. The only thing proven with that info is the person in question was wrong. It proves absolutly nothing about the fila in 1900. Not what colors there was, what they looked liked, or their temp from the begining of the fila.

    I searched for hours to find the video and cant. But I had a vid of a fila marching beside a soldier. The dog stayed on the mans left side. When the man stopped, the dog walked around the front, around the right side, around the back, the sat down back on the left side and stared at the owner. There were soldiers surronding them as they done this and the fila could care less. Military style training and the dog snaped to like a real soldier. Then they fired of multiple rounds from a gun as the dog marched. The fila never mis stepped or looked.

    I never aid they were military dogs. I sayed military style training. But that Fila sure looked military to me.

    I want to see some vids of a fila with real pressure on it. Not poppers or a sleave. I think the advantage of the fila is in their initial balls not the follow through. We all know a hard hand can break one.

    To say a fila cant be raised to allow strangers around is foolish in my opinion. Juan you gave me a link when I first got here. The guy was telling his story of how he cam to love the fila. He went to the breeders who had his bitch running the farm. The guy even went into the breeders house. The dog never wanted anything to do with him but never attacked him cause his owner was clearly ok. This went of for month and months. Finaly that fila excepted him. And I believe he ended up with a pup from them. We've watched vids of farm full of filas with folks coming and going. Hell even at a cafib show people are walking around well with in the trike zone. Now there are super hard ones possibly. But I believe raised proper and socialized proper your dog should not be affraid or feeling under attack everytime someone walks by.

    I think most filas look baset houndy. Even the one Dogogirl just got from the breeder you deal with from time to time. Thats what makes them look cool to me is the hound in them. But I do understand what you mean by that.

    You love classing folks. This aint the ckbc verse the cafib. Hell most us on here could give a rats ass about the ckbc or cafib standard. I dont choose to follow any standard. Fila's look like Filas, walk like them, stand like them, and act like them. I dont care what standard the dog fits. If it looks like, walks like acts like it should, I dont care what club they want to call their selves part of. With me it aint you(cafib) against us (ckbc). I respect cafib much more than ckbc for all the dirty crap thats gone on. But I refuse to pick a side over some other dude theories. He'll you might hate some of my own theories on filas to be honest
     
  14. dogman#1

    dogman#1 Active Member

    Imagine this if you will... I tell you to come over and base the standard of a breed based on what I got here... You see a couple of my dogs, they arent consistent in type but you write the standard, a loose one and leave. As you become more into the breed you start visiting other breeders and see that their dogs look nothing like mine, all consistent every where you went. now you started to think... hmm, wait a second, I was obviously misled here. So you write the standard based on the dogs that were consistent... This isnt an opinion this is what happened and the same thing is still happenning today. go to several non CAFIB breeders and see multiple different breeds. go to multiple CAFIB breeders and see one breed.

    You have seen videos with filas on farms walking all around strangers? really? I havent. I have actually been to CAFIB shows and I can tell you that no one is walking within striking distance. Now with crazy socialization you can get a fila to tolerate a certain amount of space but what happens when that circle is breached?

    You obviously have not seen the basset hounf fila variety. they are super short with super short legs, basset hound bodies and filaesque heads... trust me you wouldnt like them but many are CBKC champions... would you like to see some of those? I got pictures...

    I dont love "classing" folks although folks may feel like I am doing that. All I am doing is letting facts be known and that is it. It sometimes hurts people's feelings and it may even anger them as they have their opinions.

    You guys keep saying if it "looks" like a fila... well what "look" are you guys referring to? the CAFIB look or the 5 different looks of non CAFIB?

    You guys keep saying that there are and were different variants... well guys, that is the same with every breed! The difference is everyone knows that the shiloh shepherd, king shepherd, white gsd are not true GSDs...were they around before the standard was written (an opinion in your view)? YES! there were different "variants" (because as we all know GSDs where shepherds and therefore mixed bred quite a bit with feral dogs) but the consistent one is the one that shined through (sound familiar?). So for some reason with all these different variants there was one standard and even know there are 2 variants a show one and the working one... the working one NEVER changes but the show one does. This is slightly different from filas as we have CAFIB that encompasses one "variant" and non CAFIB that encompasses at least 5 and more when you count the interbreeding of those other variants. SO, when you say "looks" like a fila I have no idea what the hell you guys mean. PLEASE tell me what a fila looks like in your eyes.
     
  15. aceoutdoor

    aceoutdoor New Member

    Brother Juan, I don't think you are going to be able to "help" Chuck. Don't let it get you down, "You can't save them all".
     
  16. Rugers-Kris

    Rugers-Kris Active Member

    A Basset Hound Fila? Yikes!!! That doesn't sound attractive at all. I know I am a newbie but I have been researching like crazy and the one thing I have found to be true is that there is a basic "look" of the Fila photos I have looked at that were CAFIB and there are indeed several looks when I look at those that are CKBC. Now whether that is something that matters to a specific indiviual is another story but it definitely stands true thus far with my research. When I started looking at the Fila and took an interest in them, I saw a couple dogs and they won me over and in my mind that is a "Fila". But since starting this research I realized that that look isn't on every Fila. Ihave to say that I was rather surprised because, although, there was a lot of talk about differences and such, I really thought that those differences would be subtle and even so subtle that someone like me who had just learned of the breed, wouldn't be able to "see" them but I find that the differences are HUGE and have even found some dogs that I wouldn't have guessed as a Fila had someone not said they were. I guess it just depends on what you see in your mind when you say "Fila". I would think that even for those that are now familiar with or just don't give a damn about the shows/associations, they still certainly have a preference as to looks because that is normally what first grabs your attention, right? I have found my "look" and it was easier than I might have thought to separate. Now I am digging further into temperment which is not as easy because I can't "see" it. It is however, very important to me as just like the picture in my head of the look that I want, I also have an idea of what I think the temperment/personality should be. So, now I am continuing my search for this next piece of the puzzle which I believe is going to be some real work to figure out the how's and why's to eventually be able to figure out to get what I want int hat aspect. I do appreciate everyones feedback and I am learning so much through this thread. Keep it coming! :)
     
  17. dogman#1

    dogman#1 Active Member

    There is nothing to "help" with. The point is that he likes a specific type of dog and that is fine the thing I dont get is that he and others keep saying if it "looks" like a fila... well, I just wanna know what they believe a fila looks like since there are so many different "variants" BTW this is the first ever Fila standard ... http://sombraultrajantefilas.com/first-breed-standard.html and why there is such a huge divide

    ruger, would you like to see the basset fila "variant"? I'm sure I can dig that up.

    ---------- Post added at 01:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:59 PM ----------

    Gallery of champions: http://www.canilfortaldofila.com.br/galeriacampeoes before I get jumped on here... I am giving this link so you guys can see what champion CBKC stock is. Now these are all champions, I am not providing links to the worst but the BEST that CBKC has to offer, You make up your mind.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2012
  18. dogman#1

    dogman#1 Active Member

    Gallery of champions: http://www.canilfortaldofila.com.br/galeriacampeoes before I get jumped on here... I am giving this link so you guys can see what champion CBKC stock is. Now these are all champions, I am not providing links to the worst but the BEST that CBKC has to offer, You make up your mind. BTW I know some look like pups but they are all adults... These are facts folks.
     
  19. Rugers-Kris

    Rugers-Kris Active Member

    I think I almost have to see it now......I had no idea one even exsisted!
     
  20. aceoutdoor

    aceoutdoor New Member

    Nobody imports those things that I know of Juan and nor should they. Actually there are a few Filas being used in the Russian Military and I believe the are still a Jungle Warfare brigade or 2 using them in Western Brazil. I believe this is the video you were talking about Chuck. Judging by the top notch obedience(See Juan I call it like it is good or bad) and the straight back(common in Euro CAFIB Filas) it is a CAFIB dog.



    [video=youtube;lw-14GlecKA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw-14GlecKA[/video]
     

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