Fila Brasileiro

[Ghostsword]

It was not fci that messed up the neo, but buyers. buyers want wrinkly and unnaturally build dogs, and the breeders complied. Same reason some people mixed the fila with other breeds. People want, and pay for, larger dogs, closer to the ideal of a mastiff they have so that is what will be produced. With dogs demand drives design.

There is documented history that the bloodhound of the 1800's was way more fierce than the Fila, and even in the southern states, filas were used chase slaves and they would do less damage to "property" than what a bloodhound would do. The word Fila means to catch and hold, so maybe the original work the fila had could have been to catch people, and later when slavery was abolished used for other reasons. Cattle ranches only become established after slavery was abolished in 1888 (in brasil), so a lot if time has passed before the Fila standard was written. But the fila is old. They found some written board dated to the time of the railway slave escape groups that had the words "fila bites people" so the term fila existed before the slave emancipation in the US.

For Fila a large amount of information available is in portuguese, it has helped me a lot, but I will look for more, there has to be more on old books about the plantations, I will just need to find them.

Found this site with a great concise explanation of where we are with the fila today, and where the fila comes from.

You will not find better in english:
http://sombraultrajantefilas.com/the-fila-brasileiro-brief-history.html


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Luis
@ghostsword

 

[Tiger12490]

Ye I wish I could read Portuguese I have a feeling selective breeding has still made them a bit more snappy in recent times I've done my research as well is that bad nope they were conformed to fit there new task Athena is pretty sharp at times I know there couldn't be random people walking around my yard and she's super socialized my wife brings her to the dog kennel she works at everyday

TAPD on my skyrocket

 

[Tiger12490]

But then again she's not a fila rofl

TAPD on my skyrocket

 

[dogman#1]

Yep, Met Jaoquim..Nice guy and very knwledgeable. He was invited and assisted the judge in our 2010 CAFIB show in the United States where my bitch won Best temperment, Best Female and ultimatly the 2010 CAFIB USA Expo Champion. Joaquim is the owner of Boa Sorte Kennels and he has been invited to talk to non CAFIB groups and has assisted in judging of non CAFIB Filas. His kennel produces dogs of CAFIB type. Sombra Ultrajante Filas (Outrageous Shadow Filas) is owned by Katrina Waldrip in Tennessee. She has both CAFIB and Non CAFIB dogs, she is good people too. I have met and talked to her many times and consider her a friend.

---------- Post added at 04:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:55 PM ----------

Tiger....your Fila is not the only one that is "snappy" at times I see...ROFL.

 

[dogman#1]

Tiger....your Fila is not the only one that is "snappy" at times I see...ROFL.

---------- Post added at 05:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:57 PM ----------

Ghost..it may be supply and demand but it is the FCI that has changed the standard to fit the dogs being produced instead of making the breeders have their dogs fit the standard. If someone came to me and asked for a large, mild fila I would just walk away or hang the phone up. I would not start producing something that is out of standard just so some yuppy in an apartment can say that they have an exotic dog. So yea, it is the breeders but the registry should have more balls and stand up to them...they will conform as no one can sell pups w/o papers....well Canil ibituruna can but that is becuase his bloodlines are so well known that you have to just trust him, lol.

 

[dogman#1]

Ghost..it may be supply and demand but it is the FCI that has changed the standard to fit the dogs being produced instead of making the breeders have their dogs fit the standard. If someone came to me and asked for a large, mild fila I would just walk away or hang the phone up. I would not start producing something that is out of standard just so some yuppy in an apartment can say that they have an exotic dog. So yea, it is the breeders but the registry should have more balls and stand up to them...they will conform as no one can sell pups w/o papers....well Canil ibituruna can but that is becuase his bloodlines are so well known that you have to just trust him, lol.

 

[Ghostsword]

Yeah, but sadly the world has a lot of people willing to make a quick buck..

The FCI should do more but they are not entirely to blame. Also for the fci would be a killer to change the standard downwards, they can include but not exclude. Imagine that they would say that from the 1st of june we couldn't register black dogs? Can you imagine? The money lost on registrations? Money drives all of this.

It is a sad situation, but thankfully there is enough information to find solid information about the breed. Not easy, and one has to look, but the information is out there. Some dogs are so different that is visible, but other times will be hard, this is where cafib comes forth, where people that have way more experience than most of us can push forward the best of the breed.

Aprimorento means betterment of the breed, so only the best is put forward, and the best should breed and pas those traits forward, the traits that make me want a fila.


___________________________
Luis
@ghostsword

 

[dogman#1]

Yep, thats the other thing I like about CAFIB... judges CANNOT accept any money, they do it for free! In the evaluation they tell you what characteristics you should look for in another dog to breed to yours to better the breed. Some dogs are given an approval but with restrictions..ie "must be bred with a male with MB or O temperament" ...(MB is very good and O is excellent).

 

[Ghostsword]

Thanks Juan, great information. I need to go to a show for sure to see all of that in place.

Not sure if I will show my dogs at Cafib level, mainly because there are no cafib shows in South Africa. Could pay a judge to come all the way to test the dogs if they accept that, cheaper than taking the dogs to a show.

Thanks for all the information Juan, really appreciated.


___________________________
Luis
@ghostsword

 

[chuckorlando]

I think one main diff between those farm dogs in the video, farm dogs 100yr ago, and the dogs we speak of like my own who you aint walking past.... How they were raised. Farm dos are rarely raised period. They run the grounds almost from birth. From birth they see how THEIR world is and they adapt tp that world. Like your dog oing to the kennal. hat kennas his world. He may allow things to pass there that wont other places simply because it always was. I bet mney that you could take one pup from 10 litters. Drop them all on a farm with high trafic. Allow them to basicly raise them self. Likely only one pup will truely be the owners dog. Which in that vid was obviously the yellow/brown one at the mans side. That main dog basicly trains the rest. If he pups are learned to allow what ever here, they will aloow what ever here. But that same dog could very well see someone entering through the back of the property. Where things dont just happen. Like out of the kennal, back of the property is a whole new deal. Where a stranger may come from where they allways come from, they may not come from here. You can socialize a dog till your purple. But that is nothing compared to a dog who see's the same thing day in and day out from birth to death.

 

[dogman#1]

I agree. Not only that but the bonding process has alot to do with it. We usually spend way more time with our dogs then a farmer does...petting him/her and being really affectionate. dogs that dont bond that strongly tend to not protect either at all or without real conviction.

 

[Dogue]

I think one main diff between those farm dogs in the video, farm dogs 100yr ago, and the dogs we speak of like my own who you aint walking past.... How they were raised. Farm dos are rarely raised period. They run the grounds almost from birth. From birth they see how THEIR world is and they adapt tp that world. Like your dog oing to the kennal. hat kennas his world. He may allow things to pass there that wont other places simply because it always was. I bet mney that you could take one pup from 10 litters. Drop them all on a farm with high trafic. Allow them to basicly raise them self. Likely only one pup will truely be the owners dog. Which in that vid was obviously the yellow/brown one at the mans side. That main dog basicly trains the rest. If he pups are learned to allow what ever here, they will aloow what ever here. But that same dog could very well see someone entering through the back of the property. Where things dont just happen. Like out of the kennal, back of the property is a whole new deal. Where a stranger may come from where they allways come from, they may not come from here. You can socialize a dog till your purple. But that is nothing compared to a dog who see's the same thing day in and day out from birth to death.

Great point!

 

[Ghostsword]

I agree. Not only that but the bonding process has alot to do with it. We usually spend way more time with our dogs then a farmer does...petting him/her and being really affectionate. dogs that dont bond that strongly tend to not protect either at all or without real conviction.

Now with this I wholeheartedly agree, had not seen it from this perspective.

The dog is used to see what is normal, people walking around, the owner greeting them and he knows that those are ok. Something odd and the dog will act upon the threat.

I have seen dogs on farms behaving like that.

On the farm video you could also see the farmer controlling the dog, keeping him away from the camera people, just in case, and that devotion to the owner, you do not see that often on a farm dog.

I think that it is a great example of what a Fila obedience and love for the owner is all about.



___________________________
Luis
@ghostsword

 

[chuckorlando]

I figure the one he has sit, is the farmers dog. The others are the farms dog. I figure like Dogman said they just are'nt being raised by one single person for hours a day like our dogs do. They never bond with just one person. Except that one. And that one likely stay's close to th owner.

In the case of a kennal where the dogs are at the leash trying to eat you, thats what they know. They know theres 3 or 4 or who ever in that land period. Their fed the same way, caged the same way, and even thought the owner may have a personal pup, the rest get enough personal attenton from the small group that lives there, they view that group as their group. They see when a stranger comes, their caged. I'd also bet those caged dogs(always an exception to the rule) given a proper warm up to you, would allow you to mill around with out attacking.

When my parents came for the first time to the house last week, Kona was at them. She wanted to bite them so bad. But after a few corrections and her sitting for a bit, she gets use to them. She has no desire to be their friend, but she no longer feel the need to attack. Only problem, I have to re introduce everytime they go out or in. Even 5min outside is enough for her to think your new.

 

[Tiger12490]

Did I ever say how much I love this thread LOL I agree with you guys and never really thought about it that way

TAPD on my skyrocket

 

[dogman#1]

YEY! we are all getting along, lol. I really do appreciate a good conversation. It usually turns to crap WAY before this and everyone goes away not learning everything. i have even had to think about stuff that I havent for a long time with this thread..good job folks.

 

[chuckorlando]

I think everyone knows where we all stand. So we can all be friends and just let it be what it is as far as tht goes.

I love the fact one of the longest threads on this site is dedicated to the FILA. To me that just goes to show theres passion here if nothing else

 

[Ghostsword]

Yep, it is great how the thread developed, I learnt lots and will learn even more.

It is a great breed, can't wait to have one...


___________________________
Luis
@ghostsword

 

[dogman#1]

Hey Guys/Gals,

This is for those that said that CAFIB type filas could not be trained to do structured Protection(Ireally dont know where the hell you guys got that from). The guy who owns the fila is a Brazilian cop or MP or something, the Fila is very young and not yet an adult (def less than 2 years old and probably 1 or less). the guy trains GSDs, mals, and now filas. take a look... [video=youtube;0xtXCUPvyk8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xtXCUPvyk8&feature=share[/video]

 

[Dogue]

Very Impressive! Great Video!