Fila Brasileiro

[dogman#1]

Chuck, it is actually in the CAFIB standard:

2. Temperament
It is a courageous, determined and daring dog.
It does not hide its aversion to strangers, or its traditional tenderness to its
owners and family. Consequently, it is an unsurpassed watch dog in the cities,
and an excellent herding dog and a hunter of big animals on farms. As a result
of its temperament, at dog shows it does not allow the judge(a stranger) to
touch it. And if it attacks the judge, such a reaction must not be considered a
fault, but only a confirmation of its temperament. At temperament tests,
obligatory for dogs over one year old at shows, the Fila attack must be in an
ascending diagonal, in front of handler and without showing dependence from him.
​

 

[Ghostsword]

Ghost...not interely true...you can can easily have a full litter of pups be approved by CAFIB, happens all the time. It also depends on why one would not be passed...]

then this further justifies why getting cafib makes sense. less chance of a dud dog unless you really mess it up.

Which kennels do you have experience with? Which ones could you recommend?



___________________________
Luis
@ghostsword

 

[chuckorlando]

Dog I was'nt saying you were wrong. I was just saying I dont recall anyone here saying touching was fine.

 

[dogman#1]

Ghost, i wasnt saying it either. Since CAFIB doesnt have a "friendly stranger" portion to their Temp. test I dont know what the Friendly stranger bit is about...I was asking not stating, sorry if it came out that way.

I like Kennels that have a strict breeding program that includes culling their unfit pups. It is unlikely or straight out untrue that any breeder can produce 100% good dogs all the time so a breeder that culls accordingly is very important to me. If a breeder tells you that none of their dogs have ever had hip dysplasia or that he/she has bred it out of their lines....RUN like hell in the opposite direction. If you feel like entertaining that nonsense for a little while just ask for the OFA or PENN hip certificates for every single one of their breeding stock...do not accept a letter from their local veterinarian. The 2 people in the United States that I can honestly say do cull accordingly and w/o kennel blindness is Canil Forca and a lady named Shawna. I can give you info if you want.

 

[Dogue]

Fila, during your temperament tests are the agitators actually the owners of the dogs they're agitating? Thx!

 

[Tiger12490]

That would be counter productive there is no way a fila will go after there owner

TAPD on my skyrocket

 

[fila4me]

dogman, friendly stranger is a handshake and then walk away. I have TT excellent certificates for my earlier Filas, they received them at a Fila Working weekend. I know you are familiar with them as you went to such a weekend in TN, correct me if I am wrong. Johanny Gomez was there doing the agitation on the dogs for the event. I was supposed to be there but was in full blown chemo at the time. And, yes being able to see each other vs. typing would be wonderful!

I get my dogs for me not for anyone else. That is why I do not care for an eval. I have no desire to breed, so what does it matter to anyone else what color my dog is? I know what a Fila is supposed to act like and that is what I care about. I post pics because I think my dogs are beautiful and I like to share. I love looking at everyons pics and videos.They show the love each has for their dog and breed of choice. Believe me if I wanted to breed I would do everything to make sure I had what would be a betterment to the breed not destroy it. My first 2 filas had no business being bred. But, they were still Filas. And, I am the first to admit they did not meet up to the standards of a correct looking fila.I have nver said that my Filas liked or could be touched. I have only showed one Fila, one time. My show experience is with Dogos only.

Dogue, as tiger stated, the owner could never be the agitator for their own dog, the dog would just melt. But, good question!

 

[Dogue]

Thanks for clearing that up! when said that you were the one in the pic and that was your dog I was thrown for a loop. Thanks for clearing it up. I could have done that if I re-read what you posted . Just lazy. Thanks!

 

[Ghostsword]

I actually also read that you were the agitator, was going to ask also.

Great that a breeder culls accordingly, it does make sense, but on a pup would be hard to find out temperament, right? Unless it is something extreme like really being scared of people. Culling for color markings is a hard one, after all the pup may be perfect, however with the expenses in breeding makes more sense to spend money on pups that conform to what the standard is and to what you want to achieve.

I will check out Canil Forca, got a year to find a suitable pup to export, although Goyas filas look really nice, the color markings I like are not part of FCI standard, and I would like to have the best of both worlds.


___________________________
Luis
@ghostsword

 

[Ghostsword]

By the way, this is a video of a farm fila.

The guy talks a bit about the dogs, why a large fila is no good for them, they need them tall and light. Great video.

[video=youtube;6i1bCnRMszs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i1bCnRMszs&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/video]


___________________________
Luis
@ghostsword

 

[chuckorlando]

Well now aint that a farm full of killers. hahahahahaha. Were thos folks strangers? Cause every dog on the farm was milling around as close as could be with zero concern

 

[Dogue]

Great Video!

 

[Ghostsword]

Back to the roots. but the guy did keep full control of the dogs, and he did say that although the dog would obey him he would not obey the other people.

What we need to understand that if we breed for high ojeriza then the dogs will have high aggression. In a farm those dogs would struggle with the coming and going of people.

I would like my dogs a bit more aggressive than these, but the video shows how a farm dog behaves.


___________________________
Luis
@ghostsword

 

[allsierra123]

Very interesting. So through the cafib selective process they have indeed made the dig more weary and aggressive towards strangers.

Sent from my SGH-T679 using Tapatalk

 

[Tiger12490]

Now is that a good thing? Also that wouldn't really be what the temperament of an original fila is then right?

TAPD on my skyrocket

 

[dogman#1]

The question is...is that the obediance of the dogs seen or is that their natural temp? If that is the way they act during an eval they would be disqualified for lack of ojeriza. Especially with people walking into their own property... CAFIB is not breeding for harder temp just proper temp. I have a hard time with the argument of migrant workers and such...remember these dogs are cattle dogs, driving cattle and such...what migrant worker does that? Cattle farms don't have a bunch of people in and out all the time. The plantations back in the days had slaves not migrant workers....they live on property. So maybe for todays modern farms with seasonal crops I could see that but not then.

 

[Tiger12490]

False slaves were also in out traded and bought at will there would of been a ton of in and out from people buying the crops and cattle they couldn't attack everything that walked

TAPD on my skyrocket

 

[dogman#1]

not saying they attacked everything that walked...yea some slaves would be in and out but for the majority they would live out their lives in the property. Also you gotta understand that if, from birth, the fila has constant interactions with friendly people and only friendly people then I would imagine that it could become pretty tolerable with people. I socialized mine to hell and back while a pup and because of it she doesnt go ape shit at the mere sight of a person walking across the street but come close and she will react appropriately which does not include letting you shake my hand...now can I train her to accept that??? maybe but should a trained behavior be part of a temperament test? NO. I went to the farms in MG...when I came the dogs had to be kenneled. the nearest neighbor was about 5 miles away, the farm hands had been there for years and new ones would have to be gruadually introduced, noone was walking in and out of there, no one. As soon as the dogs were let out (on lead) they went straight to attack me. Maybe back then when the fams were spread even further apart, there were less people and less roads...maybe that somehow made it easier for peopleto walk from farm to farm buying produce...I doubt it, but maybe. Or maybe the dogs in this land that you speak of got so used to the hundreds of thousands of people walking in and out of private property that they just didnt react anymore....conditioned to accept.

 

[dogman#1]

This is what FCI does to dogs. They take a great working dog and convert it to a hot mess that cant fight its way out of a wet paper bag. the working type Neo is on the right.

 

[Dogue]

Well said dogman! Tiger, Brazillian slaves primarily worked the sugar plantations. A minority worked the mines and cotton plantations. Cattle ranches have very few workers. And they're not migrant workers. Herding cattle is something you do daily. My wife's family had a ranch in Zacatecas, Mexico for many generations. Those workers were there for decades. And I'm sure that during Brazil's colonial period it wasn't like they could just walk off the cattle ranch and find another ranch.