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Presa pup on Craigslist

Duetsche_Doggen

Well-Known Member
@Doggen- if reputable breeders dont make a profit, why dont all breeds of dog cost the same? Why would a show quality pup from a reputable breeder cost more than a pet quality dog. They all cost the same to take care of up until 8weeks. Breeders make profits. Ask people on this board they will tell you. The difference is that a reputable breeder makes money doing something he or she absolutely loves. And Like mooshies mom said--there is nothing wrong with it. Its wonderful.

Reputable breeds don't make profits consider this link for example: http://www.vintagegoldens.com/pdf/breedingcost.pdf

In regards to "show" vs "pet" its about QUALITY. Don't you pay more for name brands vs the generic? Same thing. Dogs with "correct" representaiton of their standard are considered for showing hence "show quality." Dogs lacking said traits or exhibit oddities are considered "pet quality." Again refer to the link mentioned above. Its just one of many examples GOOD breeders spend for quality dogs. I'd say the buyer is on the cheap end of the deal, wouldn't you? LOL
 

Confused68

Well-Known Member
Our breeder made it very clear to us that if for any reason, anything in our lives fell apart and we couldn't keep him that we were to bring him back to them.
 

Duetsche_Doggen

Well-Known Member
What im saying is that all well bred bulldogs dont cost the same some are of better quality than others even from the same litter--breeders pay the same to care for each pup no matter the quality. They will charge more for the higher quality because it allows them to make money for all their hard work and dedication to the breed. Im not saying breeders are making millions and Im sure there are some litters they lose money on--but to think that ALL reputable breeders dont see a profit is wrong.

No one is saying all. There are puppy millers behind "big names" but the majority of good, honest, respectable breeders do not make a profit. If they do they are cutting corners somewhere........
 

Jerms

Well-Known Member
No I dont breed(only children). I would like to make it clear I do not have anything against breeders making some money on their pups. Some breeders make more than others. Some might do it out of the goodness of their heart. My reason for replying to this thread was to defend the guy re homing his dog. You guys have convicted this guy with no real proof. I own one cane corso who i bought apparently from a BYB but didnt know until reading this forum. I knew to stay away from puppy mills but didnt know the difference btwn BYB and reputable breeders. I have to be honest if I had to do it again i would buy the same pup from the same guy because she is awesome. Hopefully some dogs from BYBs do Ok.
 

Confused68

Well-Known Member
Also, my husband and I visited our breeder quite a bit and it's not like reputable breeders make bank. They were telling us that after they pay for everything they may make enough to buy a modest new car. You have to take into account the vet bills, meds etc that breeding incurs then all the work that these people put into their dogs and puppies. The work alone would deter me from breeding, I seriously do not know how they do it!
 

raechiemay

Well-Known Member
I don't think anyone is saying all dogs from BYBs are doomed. There are probably dogs that do just fine. When I take what I've learned from purchasing 2 EMs over the past 8-9 years, I will take into serious consideration where I plan to buy my Corso pup from in the future. I do not believe that there will ever be enough research that I can do. If I think I'm done, well there's probably more I can do. I won't buy a Corso from just anyone. I don't really care about show quality as I don't intend to show the dog, but I do want a true representation of the breed.
 

Jerms

Well-Known Member
Doggen so you are telling me that every breeder keeps one pup gives another to co breeder and gines away another for a co-own? Not likely. Do the math in the same situation but sell the three dogs they kept or gave away and you see a profit. I said not all litters make money. But not all reputable breeder breed dogs out of the goodness of their heart.trust me.
 

raechiemay

Well-Known Member
I'm not saying the guy posting the ad is a total ass & there are probably good enough reasons why he needs to rehome the dog, which we all don't know at this point. If you want to accuse me of speculating against the man then so be it, I just know that the majority of CL pet ads are a joke & for the most part seems that these people are only out to make a quick buck on a litter of pups. I come to that conclusion bc of people charging $600 for nonpapered EMs, saying they are full blooded when clearly anyone who knows EMs well enough would know that the bitch looks like a BM! I'm sorry but that's something I don't agree with. Those people are misrepresenting both breeds & potential puppy owners.
 

northernmastiff

Well-Known Member
Reputable breeds don't make profits consider this link for example: http://www.vintagegoldens.com/pdf/breedingcost.pdf

In regards to "show" vs "pet" its about QUALITY. Don't you pay more for name brands vs the generic? Same thing. Dogs with "correct" representaiton of their standard are considered for showing hence "show quality." Dogs lacking said traits or exhibit oddities are considered "pet quality." Again refer to the link mentioned above. Its just one of many examples GOOD breeders spend for quality dogs. I'd say the buyer is on the cheap end of the deal, wouldn't you? LOL

Great link DD, much more thorough then my explanation.
 

Jerms

Well-Known Member
Also the health tests done on the bitch are a huge fee and only need to be done once-her next litter she wont have to pay for them and most likely will sell her best three pups instead of keeping or giving away. Do that math.
 

Duetsche_Doggen

Well-Known Member
No I dont breed(only children). I would like to make it clear I do not have anything against breeders making some money on their pups. Some breeders make more than others. Some might do it out of the goodness of their heart. My reason for replying to this thread was to defend the guy re homing his dog. You guys have convicted this guy with no real proof. I own one cane corso who i bought apparently from a BYB but didnt know until reading this forum. I knew to stay away from puppy mills but didnt know the difference btwn BYB and reputable breeders. I have to be honest if I had to do it again i would buy the same pup from the same guy because she is awesome. Hopefully some dogs from BYBs do Ok.

Why do you keep saying "making money" you want free service? Anytime I wanted service I had to pay for it LOL. Well whenever the breeder the above posters contacted gives an answer we'll find out won't we? Everyone has to start somewhere, unless you were born into dogs most folks brought BYB dogs myself included. Its not a bad thing many dogs live long healthy lives. Quality, quality and again quality, if you want a dog that looks like the breed you want go to a reptuable breeder. If you want a dog that looks like another breed but is still advertised as the breed you want go to a BYB.
 
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northernmastiff

Well-Known Member
Also the health tests done on the bitch are a huge fee and only need to be done once-her next litter she wont have to pay for them and most likely will sell her best three pups instead of keeping or giving away. Do that math.

Read my post Jerms. I looked at three pom litters and didn't include any of the other costs, just health clearances and raising the litter. There is no profit there, or a profit so marginal that there is no point to call it a profit. This is with a reputable breeder, however, one that does testing and only produces one to two litters a year. I am a writer and there is a strict rule for writing, "If you can make more working at McDonalds than you can writing, choose a different career." If you are making, at most, 10 bucks an hour for a 40 hour week, then fine, breed dogs, however, if you are reputable, keep litters low, show dogs, etc, then the 1.18 per hour is not worth it unless you are doing it for the love of the breed. I mean, I could babysit (I have my Early Childhood Education degree) and make 35/day/kid and still make more taking one kid (probably work less) than I could breeding dogs so if you are looking strictly for profit, it makes more sense to babysit. I am pretty sure breeders out there could make more money doing other work. The cost of a pup is to recoup expenses and to help you continue working with your other dogs and furthering your line and your plans for the breed. The majority of breeders do it for love of the breed, not to make money.

---------- Post added at 12:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:00 PM ----------

Realized my numbers were off slightly. The profit was 3115 for 3 litters. 16 weeks per litter x 40 hours per week is a total of 1920 hours minimum for 3 litters. Total per hour is $1.62 so yeah, if it was about money, they should choose a different career.
 

northernmastiff

Well-Known Member
Realized my numbers were off slightly. The profit was 3115 for 3 litters. 16 weeks per litter x 40 hours per week is a total of 1920 hours minimum for 3 litters. Total per hour is $1.62 so yeah, if it was about money, they should choose a different career.
 

Jerms

Well-Known Member
Northernmastiff--some litters dont turn out profitable. You can bet your bottom dollar that the large and reputable kennels make money. If a corso breeder has a litter of 8 puppies and sells them for an average of 1500 each thats 12000 dollars. I dont care what your overhead is you make some money--disasters aside. Like I said some breeders make more than others. Just like in business--maybe pomeraniums arent a profitable breed.
 

Duetsche_Doggen

Well-Known Member
Also the health tests done on the bitch are a huge fee and only need to be done once-her next litter she wont have to pay for them and most likely will sell her best three pups instead of keeping or giving away. Do that math.

The breeder may not have to perform another test on their bitch ( although some do) what about the stud fee? Travel? What if they use another bitch? Artificial insemination? What about injuries that could occur. I hope you know that breeders don't necessarily keep BOTH parents on site. The point is the improve the breed so that means accessing other pools. In your own words "do the math."
 

Jerms

Well-Known Member
Go to firehorse cane corsos web-site where black shadow got her stud from. Are you gonna tell me they dont make a profit? Come on. I bet to use one of their dogs as a stud costs money even if you bring your bitch to them. A dogs sperm doesnt cost money so why do they charge? Profit. There is no shame in making a profit beeding dogs. Its probably a very fulfilling business to have. And again-- I know all breeders dont make money but if you think people have been breeding dogs for years on end and continually do it just to lose money I dont believe it. Maybe a hobby breeder like Black shadow will do a litter here and there for the love of the breed, but she is definately the minority is what im saying
 

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
Tests for some sexually transmitted diseases have to be repeated (on both dogs and bitches), blood work to test when the bitch is most fertile has to be repeated (often multiple times per heat cycle), the male may need testing regularly to confirm sperm count.....and that doesn't include the costs of feeding and housing these dogs, particularly ones of this size long term, the costs of getting titles....

I suppose its possible that the guy had some major unforsee-able life changing issue in the week since he got the pup home and then decided to sell it.....Thats a really short span of time however for something that drastic to happen AND for him to know he can't take the pup. Its like the lady selling a pit pup on my local craigslist right now: Pup's 12 weeks old, is listed as well tempered and great with kids, but "now I'm pregnant and I don't want him around my future children". Yah, sure lady. Keep selling that pipe dream, someone will fall for it....
 

Jerms

Well-Known Member
Doggen - the stud fee was included in the link it was 500 and apparently they also gave them a pup. Use example I used of corsos 12000 income from 1 litter there will be profit after overhead. Like I said do the math. Confused68 said that their breeder made enough to buy a modest new car. Thats profit no matter what it comes out to per h
 

Duetsche_Doggen

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I'm going to tell you they don't make a profit. Have you seen the titles that some of their studs carry? Those aren't cheap now add those that carry multiple titles times the number dogs they have. Sperm is free LOL but for QUALITY dogs like firehorse be prepared to pay for it. The moment you start breeder for profit is the moment you are no longer a reputable breeder. People probably breed for years because the LOVE the BREED not the PROFIT. Breeders think, "How else can I improve this dog breed?" Not "If I had this dog had such in such pups, how much bank would that be." Blackshadow may be a "minority" as far as reputable breeders who love the breed. However there is no comparison as far as "profit" goes. I'm pretty sure both do other things to pay the bills and supplement income........