I'm getting frustrated with the lack of response

[SavingGrace]

She is ADORABLE! Again, I'm sure TM owners will chime in here because I only have CC experience. The guardian instinct is real. It is something you have to prepare for, and it can be prepared for. It is like socializing a dottie, shepherd or dane. It just takes MORE consistency, and on-going socialization, well after puppy-hood. The way you socialize them is the same. Just do it MORE with a Mastiff, and do it for years. From what I know about CC's they hit their maturity at 2 years old. This is when their guardian instincts kick in to full effect. THIS and AFTER is when socialization is so important. This is when I'm taking my dog to dog friendly malls, dog parks, public places, letting strangers pet her. I would assume, 'normal dogs' if you socialize them as a puppy you're good. With Mastiffs, it has to be lifelong.

But even still - they pick up on your emotions. They are deeply in-tune with you and how you're feeling. They love you and they want to know you're there. They don't have to be on top of you. But they need to see you, know you're safe and happy. That, to me, is a great definition of love. Ever notice how your TM mix is frequently in the same room you are?

 

[Catia]

Whew! been an emotional night for me.
There's a lot of good advice in this thread, & I am going to try some things differently.

I have been reading, & I do worry about the 'change' that takes place between 2 & 3 yrs with this breed, & that they can get more guardy overnight.
She is already spayed. I do not know if that lessons the effect or not for females.
It's hard to picture my soft noodly girl tense & guardy, that's what I do not want to think about, but know I must.

Thank you all for taking time out & for being supportive. I'm learning here & hopefully this can help others in the future.

 

[looby73]

Hi,
I'm quite new to TM's myself. We had an Akita who we lost 2 years ago (at a good age of 13.5) but I couldn't contemplate having another as it wouldn't be my boy.
So, after lots of looking on the internet my husband found TM's. We both like the independent characters in dogs and them not needing constant attention like some breeds do.
We got our first boy Zeus last year and have added number 2, Hades, earlier this year (we must be mad). They are both quite typical TM's but our 2nd is probably even more of a typical TM character. Zeus has been very laid back from day one, takes everything and everyone in his stride, has spurts of 'madness' (blue smartie moments) but still likes lots of sleep. He does like to be in the same room as us though. Now our new boy Hades is not quite so laid back and goes from being such a sweetie pie giving us kisses to chewing a hole in the utility room wall (no he wasn't locked in there he just fancied the taste of plaster!). Although Hades is very loving with us, he's not bothered whether he's in the same room and takes himself off to the kitchen quite often for a nap. And he's not interested in strangers fussing him when he's out either.
They both definitely have the guarding instinct and yes, it's worse when it starts going dark. Worse but in a good way, it's very comforting, especially if I'm home alone. Zeus hasn't shown any signs of any 'guarding' while we're out and about socially but I think Hades probably will be a little more on guard with strangers based on how he is at the moment (although early days as he's only 18 weeks).
They are definitely a breed that takes a lot of work, and must be even harder when you weren't expecting it! But, if she's licking your face when you're crying, it definitely sounds like she loves you.
I hope you can manage to work through it. Don't get disheartened by feeling you're at a loss what to do....I'm sure most TM owners have felt like that at some stage!

 

[Mooshi's Mummy]

Catia - Im sorry to hear you getting upset and my advice would be to try and relax a bit and also to let you know you are not alone. My Mooshi sounds very much like your Tessa and honestly the bonding thing takes time with this breed, but it does happen. Mooshi did not do play, and really she still doesnt, she has no interest in toys unless its to destroy them and she would rather be out laying in the garden than in the house where the humans are. The first year or so was the hardest for us to get used to. With our Akita Bear we have the opposite, he is a velcro dog that will do anything for a ball, loves people, hates other dogs and adores nothing more than cuddles. The exact opposite of Mooshi, until recently. Mooshi will be 3 in July and she is only just now seeking out affection, actually asking for it, getting on the sofa with me for a snuggle and 'sexy leg'...she lifts her back leg for you to rub the inside of it. She likes to touch me now when she is laying on her side for a belly rub and have her paw held. BUT this has taken time, she was not a cuddly puppy, I wouldnt call her a cuddly dog, she still doesnt do play unless its me acting a fool and running around the garden for her to chase me and nip my bum and only then its when she wants to do it, if she doesnt there is nothing anyone can do to get her to play.

I have come to accept her 'distance', cherish the snuggly moments and adore her for just who she is, which is a TM in all ways they say in the books. I love taking her to fields and woods and letting her off lead and watching her jump through the long grass, and she adores wanter, she is a total swamp monster so I induldge her when i can, because then I get to see her and be with her when she is truly happy and bouncing like a clown. She can likes other dogs, but for a limited period of time. She loves to say hello and after about a minute she turns her back on them.

I agree with Looby, try not to get down about her, she is only a TM at the end of the day. LOL. Try, if you can, to accept her the way she is, appreciate her good bits and be patient for her to mature and fully come in to herself, I can almost say with hand on heart there is still a lot to learn about her.

And if she is kissing your tears away, she loves you. She may not need to be jumping all over the place to show it but she does love you.

 

[ELB81]

I am very much a newbie it's coming up to 5 month and I got mine at 13/14 month and all I can say is it does get better and listen to what everone on here has said. I got a TM as it suited my personality, I'm not a lovey dovey person who show a lot of affection but I do like the odd cuddle mum says we are well suited lol

 

[chuckorlando]

I think your stressing to much myself. Coming from someone with a pretty aggressive breed, they aint that hard to deal with. Socialize, and when you think your done, do it 10x more. By the time your pup is big enough to be trouble, you will know what signs are what. You will learn your pup and what can and cannot be done with the pup. Your best bet is to just relax. TM's can feel your stress and that makes them stress. You just need to know it's all gonna be fine. Chill and enjoy the pup, do what the tm folks suggest, and let it all come together

 

[ruthcatrin]

Yup, what Chuck said. By the time she's 2 or 3 and potentially coming into that adult temperment you'll know how to read her much better (I promise, its a learning curve), and know how to handle her.

 

[Rugers-Kris]

I am sorry to hear that you are going through this. I am sure it is tough to get a pup that is so far from what you expected. You shouldn't feel bad. You had no idea that she was a TM mix and they are definitely a very different dog. I know everyone, for the most part, is telling you to just wait it out and that is definitely an option BUT it is ok to think about rehoming her and getting a puppy that better suits your lifestyle. Of course, you will want to make sure that you rehome her with someone that undertstands what she is and that will take great care of her BUT it is ok. You wanted a pup to be social and playful and needy that suits your personality. If you are living somewhere that you can't be sure you can handle her Guardy behavior as she gets older, the time to consider finding her a better fit is now while she is still young. I totally support you in the event that you decide to keep her and I am sure if you put the effort in, you will be able to manage her but that is a decision only you can make. I know I babble on but I just wanted you to know, in my opinion, you have more than one option and you don't have to feel badly about it. You both deserve to be happy. Good luck and please keep us updated.

 

[Mooshi's Mummy]

^^agree with Kris^^

 

[angelbears]

I am sorry to hear that you are going through this. I am sure it is tough to get a pup that is so far from what you expected. You shouldn't feel bad. You had no idea that she was a TM mix and they are definitely a very different dog. I know everyone, for the most part, is telling you to just wait it out and that is definitely an option BUT it is ok to think about rehoming her and getting a puppy that better suits your lifestyle. Of course, you will want to make sure that you rehome her with someone that undertstands what she is and that will take great care of her BUT it is ok. You wanted a pup to be social and playful and needy that suits your personality. If you are living somewhere that you can't be sure you can handle her Guardy behavior as she gets older, the time to consider finding her a better fit is now while she is still young. I totally support you in the event that you decide to keep her and I am sure if you put the effort in, you will be able to manage her but that is a decision only you can make. I know I babble on but I just wanted you to know, in my opinion, you have more than one option and you don't have to feel badly about it. You both deserve to be happy. Good luck and please keep us updated.

I agree 1000%!!!! As long as you take the time to find her the right home, it is fine to rehome her. I own a Fila. I have not had the same experience that Chuck has had. For him it may be easy, for me the responsibility at times can be overwhelming. At 170 to 180 pounds Cane is much stronger than I am, plus he has very big dewlaps, which makes a choke chain almost useless. He can walk right through it. We never leave our yard and he is always leashed when out of the house. My female, she's 60 pounds lighter and a choke works well own her. She is pretty easy. So, really it comes down to what can you handle physically and mentally.

Cane sounds a lot like your girl. I thought the damn dog didn't love. So much so, after 4 months of having him we went back to the breeder and spent the Thanksgiving holiday with them so they could see how we interacted. They pointed out how he watched every move I made and a couple of other things. I still wasn't sure the damn dog cared a shit about me. I've had him 4 years now and I have never had a connection with a dog like I do with Cane. I can't describe it but it is AWESOME! We rarely play, he rarely minds but to be loved so much makes up for all that.

Good luck in whatever you decide!

 

[Gypsy Moon's mama]

Catia...I thought that I rescued an aligator until recently...You just have to find something that the two of you can do together. I opted to attend obedience classes with my girl. My dog trainer has a wealth of group classes available to attend. Gypsy Moon thrives on the attention and she has learned alot. (while being socialized) I call it the girl's night out. Don't blame the breed...just find a positive way to bond...even if it's sitting in the sun. Hope this helps.

 

[Gypsy Moon's mama]

Sometimes they rescue us...there is alot to be learned every day.

 

[CeeCee]

Hi Catia,

I think you're getting a lot of great advice from people who are very knowledgeable about the breed. I tend to take a more spiritual look at things. Try looking at Tessa as a gift who is offering you the opportunity to experience a whole new world - Tessa's world. This is an opportunity to learn how Tessa sees the world, what excites her, what she values, respects, trusts, etc.

Please understand I am NOT saying that you don't see Tessa as a gift and I am NOT saying that you aren't trying very hard. It is very clear that you love her very deeply and are working very hard to connect with her. I'm just voicing a possibility that Tessa might be your dog because she has something different to teach you. She might be offering you the opportunity to experience something completely different from what you've experienced in the past.

Reading your posts, I thought of Suzanne Clothier's book Bones Would Rain Would Rain From Sky. If you haven't read it already you might want to check it out.

Sincerely, CeeCee

 

[DennasMom]

^^ CeeCee beat me to it.

I was going to quote "you don't always get the dog you want, sometimes you do get the dog you need."

It's obvious from your posts that Tessa loves you, and you love her.

Yes, you could rehome her if you think that's what's best for Tessa, but I think she's very comfortable with you and has already bonded well with you. But, she's still young enough, that she'd probably do well in a new home, too. You could be her 'transition' home for a family looking for an older puppy - i.e. one already potty trained. You've still done a great job in bringing up a great puppy.

So... I think you can look at this in a bunch of different ways, but one would be that Tessa is a ROCK of a dog - calm, balanced, empathetic - that in a year or so could easily allow you to foster dogs in need - dogs that would need your attention and help to get back on their feet. You mentioned raising 'extra' kids... so I thought that might be something that would appeal to you - I know it appeals to me...

Or, you could embrace her for her and find some activities to enjoy together. Keep looking for new things to try. Do you think she'd enjoy agility work? Herding? Maybe nose work? Search and rescue? There's a Dog Scouts of America group out there doing all sorts of things with dogs... maybe something different will spark her interest? Or, maybe it's just sitting on the back pork watching the squirrels run the fence line... It took Denna until she was about 10 months old to decide chasing squirrels was worthwhile, up to then, she'd just watch...

As for worrying about her future 'guardy' moments - it could also be that she learns your vulnerable moments, and can alert you to when they're coming, so you can get to a safe place - where she can watch over you until help arrives. I've read a few posts here of people getting mastiffs (more BM/EM's I think, but still... mastiffs) as service dogs.

Please come here and vent when you need to!! Just voicing your thoughts or putting them in writing can help you sift through them. And there's TONS of support here!

I know when we had a rescue dog that was not working out - once I told my husband I thought we should find him a new home, my stress levels went down - and the dog behaved much better! HA! We still did find him a new home - and we were all much happier then (especially the two dogs involved).

I look forward to hearing how things go. Tessa is such a cute puppy!!

 

[Catia]

Ok, have had some time to 'sleep off' the anxiety & confusion, & to take many of your suggestions & experiences to heart.


One of *MY* problems is, that aside from here on this site,
when I try to talk about her behavior or temperament/personality,
I'm getting told it is because ***I***am doing something wrong, or that Tessa is sick.

I've been told, many times in the past weeks, that Tessa would be different if I figured out what I'm doing wrong, &/or figured out what her health issue is.
I've been told that a dog is a dog is a dog, & TM's are no different, & since she's not pure-bred, it wouldn't matter anyway.

I've also been told I must be scaring her, or dominating her too much, or doing something to dissuade her from normal puppy behavior, & that the issue lay solely with me & my interactions with her.

I was even told by one person, that trains & shows shepherds, that the "ancient breed" TM being different is just a bunch of hype to market the breed that doesn't have any business being a pedigree & they don't really have any special or different genetics, he said it's just a mutt from Asia.
This man is a bit of an arrogant ass. He caught me totally off guard.
Usually, I avoid him, but he butted into a convesrsation I was having with others, & it really got to me, made me feel pretty upset, & embarassed, because some of my friends really think he is an expert. (I do NOT).
Ultimatley it pissed me off!
--His shitty & snyde comment did lead me to doing some research into TM genetics, & I see he is so grossly mistaken, & I wonder how a person who trains dogs, specifically shepherds, can think that there is no difference between breeds, be it TM, poodle or otherwise.

Normally, I am pretty thick skinned, & I usually beat to my own drum & outside influence doesn't affect me.
At the end of the day though, I'm conflicted, because Tessa's behavior is SO DIFFERENT, that I have doubts, & outside influence IS getting to me.

This is my baby we're talking about here, my little ball of love, my real life muppet, & if it's a possibility that I am the one doing something wrong to make her behavior odd, I want to know what it is.

When I read here, & it is a different world--people who have TM's are saying "yes-that's typical-nothing out of the ordinary", with many of you even joking about it. Even preparing themselves before adopting for the difference in personality.
That is the part that is beginning to hit home, I'm starting to have the "ah ha!" lightbulb moments.

Could just be a small group of people online ARE correct & know what they are talking about, because they have TMs and know the breed, & that there is a HUGE difference in personality/temperament/behavior--

I'm thankful to each of you because I am not getting dismissed or flamed while I am experiencing this whole 'dilemma'.
Also am thankful I'm not discluded because she's not pure-bred.

Fact is, I'm trying to regain my footing & get grounded about all of this.

No, I was not prepared for Tessa's personailty, & I think there is no way I could've been considering the circumstances.
I expected a rottie cross, & was prepared for that, 100% (or so I thought lol).

Things are coming into perspective.

It's a process, & I'm starting to see that while this may just be a small group of people nowhere close to me, & online--
You all just may be right about Tessa.

This may well be who she is, & I need to stop blaming myself, or looking for what is wrong, because that's all I have been doing, & it's been keeping me up at night.
Tessa is healthy, she's not sick.
I'm not dominating her or making her not want to play.

There isn't anything *wrong* with Tessa at all.

Tessa is different, & it's not a fault of mine, it's just rare chance occurrence, she behaves like she should.

In most ways, I do feel Tessa is a gift.
Fact is, Tessa is more well behaved & even than anyone else's pups or dogs that I've had her around thus far--& that's a LOT of pooches. I pray she stays this way. In some ways, I also worried her temperament is too good to be true.

Other people are pushing their beliefs down my throat that there must be something wrong with her, or me, & I was buying into it.

It's time for me to re-assert myself, & get down to business, I shouldn't have doubted myself in the 1st place.

Tessa is an old soul, right down to her very genes, & very very different than any pooch I've ever experienced.
Regular dog owners on the street aren't going to have a clue about it. The sooner I accept this as fact, the better.

I believe in my heart that this was meant to be, for Tessa & I, just as it is.

I want to experience this journey & see where it takes me, because that's where we are supposed to be.

I want to learn from the TM owners what it is that I need to be doing.
I do not want to re-home Tessa, her home is with me.

 

[Doggyhelpplease]

Glad you had some time to think about it and feel a little more confident in yourself. I emailed Mooshi's mom a ton too, especially earlier on as I want to do nothing wrong and she was always a great help. I have had other dogs before and a (bullmastiff, GS etc) but never a puppy (rescue etc) but every issue always just got better with time and work thus far. I always get that well she is so calm and well behaved for a puppy comment too cause people are use to little high energy breeds running crazy all the time (this is one the blessing but we will see when she gets more into her teens if it last for me lol). I actually babysat my brother dog the other day and I thought to myself I am so glad I did not get a high strung breed (he is one). I am glad you are deciding to keep her and I am sure some one this board can help you a great deal whenever you have issues.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Unfortunetly you might as well get used to those comments from "dog people" now. Even at shows I still get it. Apollo is COMPLETELY NOT FOOD DRIVEN, to an extreme even for a TM. I can't count the number of times, just in the two shows we've been to, that I've had other dog owners and handlers insist I just have the wrong type of bait.....I had one guy waving steak under Apollo's nose in the group ring! Apollo of course completely ignored him. I've learned to ask them if they have a spare piece of said wonder bait I can try lol, Apollo's lack of reaction always stumps them.

Just smile and nod. Don't TOTALLY ignore them, cause in middle of the putdown they're giving you they might have a valid idea to try, but just smile and nod, and keep right on going.

Honest to god, call Susie @ Himalaya TMs from the link I posted in the other thread, if you need re-assurance that she's normal. I'll send her an email and let her know you'll be calling if you want me too. Or I'll PM you my phone number and you can call me, if that'll help you work through it. But Susie's been working with TMs for over 20yrs now, and she's walked countless new puppy owners through the frustrations of figuring out their pups.

 

[Tiger12490]

A vet check when theres a concern is never a bad idea, but the pup is displaying very typical TM behavior.

Also displaying a pretty rotti behavior too.....

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Catia]

The pic of Tessa looking over the hill has a rainbow in it, but I do not think it came out well on computer, you can see the rainbow on my phone screen- was taken with an old phone--the other of the rainbow by itself is better.

 

[ruthcatrin]

you can see the rainbow! Awesome! She's such a cutie.