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My experience with an accidental litter...

jessicadawnnn

Well-Known Member
Re: A Stressful Parasitic Accident...

Oh my goodness how fricken cute are they!!! What a great job you've done, making sure everything is going according to plan. and thank you for sharing!
 

Iymala

Well-Known Member
Re: A Stressful Parasitic Accident...

Obligatory picture .... I shall call it "Puppy Collage"
20150917_140519_zps1bplxaa4.jpg


To start, I witnessed the cutest thing today. They are learning to play. I watched two toothless wonders start to chew on each others heads and legs, and pounce on one another. Then a different one was attempting to play with Betty's giant head and giving her kisses. It is really neat to watch them developing personalities.

So on to the gross reality of puppies. When I was reading everything under the sun about whelping, I kept coming across the phrase "the mother will clean the puppies." Ok, cool, she will lick them a little, stimulate them to go to the bathroom when they are really young, and in general keep them somewhat clean. That phrase does not really describe the absolute grossness that she endures keeping not only the puppies clean but the entire whelping box.

I incorrectly assumed that the whelping are would be a disgusting, poop smeared abomination. That is not at all the case, Betty is like a poop seeking Roomba. Within a few seconds of a puppy pooping she eats the poop (i know so gross, they didn't warn me in detail about this.... it just gets glossed over), cleans the area the poop was, and then cleans the puppy. She is remarkably efficient. I have a super sensitive nose and the room has at most a light ... puppy odor, but not one of feces or urination... just a slight funk. I blame that on puppy breath x 8. I change the bedding out every morning and give it a deep wash in hot water, but the clean up is surprisingly ...minimal. I was expecting to be washing poop smeared puppies daily.

In a week, when I start to wean them, I will be setting up a specific potty area for them and extending their enclosure. Hopefully they take to pottying in designated area. They are already getting in the habit of walking away from where they are all sleeping to go to the bathroom.


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DennasMom

Well-Known Member
Re: A Stressful Parasitic Accident...

Wow. Amazing. Love the detail you've included in your posts!
Thank you for sharing. We now have another story to share when others are contemplating breeding, not knowing what they're getting into... as you said, this was an "easy" birthing process with a good Betty at the helm - there's so much that went right, and it's STILL a lot of work! (so I've read, I don't have and desire to go through the process)

Great job "Grandma"!!! :)

And those pictures! OH! Cute!!!
I hope you have some videos, too... I'd love to hear some of their demon screams. :)
Keep the updates coming!!!

(for videos, I post to facebook or youtube, then share the link here)
 

Yamizuma

Well-Known Member
A Stressful Parasitic Accident...

They are so adorable, and you and Betty are doing a great job!

My puppy experience is mostly second hand and from helping my friend who is a rescue doula. She takes in pregnant moms from various humane societies and other rescues, helps the mom as birth and wean the pups and sees them safely to the eight week mark when they go off to other fosters.

Right now she has 22 little squeakers under roof. Two litters have mommas, including a litter of 12 pups. One of the litters, a group of six, came into rescue when momma was killed - run over by a car. They all had to be bottle fed.

I wouldn't be up for an eight of what she takes on, nor half of what you have going on now, but despite the fact that Betty and Claymore weren't intended to have babies, I think these babies are awesome, and you've been awesome!

Great work dealing with mastitis and no kidding about the gross mamma clean-up duty, eh? They will grow up and move on all too quickly when you someday look back on all of this.




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Iymala

Well-Known Member
Re: A Stressful Parasitic Accident...

My puppy experience is mostly second hand and from helping my friend who is a rescue doula. She takes in pregnant moms from various humane societies and other rescues, helps the mom as birth and wean the pups and sees them safely to the eight week mark when they go off to other fosters.

Right now she has 22 little squeakers under roof. Two litters have mommas, including a litter of 12 pups. One of the litters, a group of six, came into rescue when momma was killed - run over by a car. They all had to be bottle fed.

Your friend is a saint! I cannot even imagine the amount of her heart and sanity that she gives to every one of the litters she rescues. Even outside the financial burden, the amount of attention healthy litters need is intense, but orphaned litters are a whole new ballgame. I have no idea how she ever finds time to sleep. Out of curiosity, with the orphaned litter, could she split them up and give half to each nursing mother, or would they not be able to provide for so many puppies? Or I guess even accept ones that were not their own?

I do not think a lot of people that romanticize breeding really have an understanding of the time commitment and financial commitment involved in a healthy/easy litter, let alone a litter that they have to bottle feed or that the mother has emergency issues. Even the little things like having to feed a nursing mother 3x their normal daily intake becomes quite expensive then add in milk replacer for weaning, puppy food, vet exams for mother (before and after whelping) and each puppy, health certificates, de- worming every 2 weeks for mother and puppies, vaccinations, bedding, electricity and detergent for doing tons of laundry every day, extra towel/washcloths for keeping everyone clean, small sharp scissors to cut the puppies nails every few days so they don't injure the mother, constructing an appropriate sized whelping area, gauze and a disinfectant incase the puppies or mother gets a cut, disposable lining for when the puppies begin to potty away from their sleeping area (be it paper, puppy pads, or pine large wood chips). I purchased so many little items that really never occurred to me that you would need the closer and closer the whelping got just to cover every contingency. Heck, I left out the ridiculous amount of money I spent on canned wet food to top Betty's kibble each feeding because I want to make sure that she eats all of it since trying to gain weight on a nursing mother seems to be incredibly challenging. Then add in a bulb syringe, a medicine dropper, extra fleece to make sure the whelping area is soft and comfortable, bleach to make sure the floors are cleaned and sanitary around the puppies, baby wipes for when they inevitably roll in their own poo while you have them separated from the mother and cleaning the area. It just keeps adding up.

Granted, maybe I am a bit over prepared, but other than the dental floss, the bentadine and gauze, I have used every single thing in my arsenal at one point or another including the kid's scissors to cut umbilical cords. I would hope that anyone "planning" to breed for one reason or another, that is not a professoinal, really takes a look at the amount of money and time that it takes to whelp a little. Now, I am sure there are people who just throw them in the back yard and see who survives like a horrible episode of naked and afraid, but we will leave that demographic out.

Thankfully we had some money put away in case of an emergency and this was not a financial hardship for us. Now, it was only not a hardship because everything went right. If Betty needed an emergency C-section or hospitalization, then than would have left us with some serious credit card debt and likely a loan. Add on to the situation, we got notice 28 days before our lease ends on Oct. 1st that they were not renewing. So while all the crazy whelping was going on we had to look for a new house to rent, plan movers, cleaners, etc in addition to paying first and security on a new place. Just goes to show, if something will go wrong... it will.

Even with the scariest part over, comes the challenge of finding all the puppies good homes and making sure when I take them in for vaccines they do not pick up any diseases. Oh, yes add another expense in... I purchased an additional medium wire crate to transport the puppies two and from the vet so they never touch the floor. If the litter came down with parvo because lack of sanitation at the vet combined with my lack of precautions, I would just be inconsolable.

I am sitting here thinking about the stress, the cost, the time investment and just shaking my head. This was something that is happening one time for me, but your friend does this all the time. She is a hero, and no amount of thanks or praise will ever come close to what she really deserves.


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Iymala

Well-Known Member
Re: A Stressful Parasitic Accident...

I am incredibly long winded... I appologize.


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Boxergirl

Well-Known Member
Re: A Stressful Parasitic Accident...

I think your posts are very important for anyone considering a litter to read. In fact, I wish you could change the title so anyone looking for info on breeding would easily find it. I hear too many people that think "real" breeders saying how much it costs and how much work it is are just trying to stop other people from infringing on their territory. I think what you are saying is very valuable and eye opening.
 

CeeCee

Well-Known Member
Re: A Stressful Parasitic Accident...

Wow! Thank you for sharing this experience with us. I am loving reading it. What an adorable bunch!!
 

Iymala

Well-Known Member
Re: A Stressful Parasitic Accident...

Since a video was requested:
https://youtu.be/1dQA6HY3DpA
I have been told they sound like walruses.

I felt the first signs of their shark teeth coming through last night, and they are already like little razors. I have a new respect for Betty's tolerance and pain threshold. There is no way it can feel good with those little things digging into you. It looks like weaning will begin Monday.

Also I'll report the original post and see if a moderator can change the title to something more easily searched. This became sort of a blog on the experience and if it can help someone else then they should be able to find it.

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Liz_M

Well-Known Member
That video is hysterical, what a bunch of little monsters!


I'm glad the thread title got changed, I also think this is really good information. I've no experience with pregnant dams and whelping litters and after reading your thread, I am definitely sure I'd rather leave it to people who are prepared and knowledgeable. I do know people who show and occasionally breed and it's not an easy thing to do. So much can go wrong.


Glad the pups and mom are doing well, I hope you find excellent homes for all of the puppers.
 

Ginurse

Well-Known Member
Re: A Stressful Parasitic Accident...

I had no idea that raising a litter was so difficult. I am thankful for your detailed posts; they paint quite a legit picture of how hard it is to do things correctly. I loved the video, and am hoping you find the right puppy parents. I can't imagine raising the pups, then having to give them away. :(
 

Iymala

Well-Known Member
They LOVE to growl so much, and now attempt to eat each other's face. They are also learning to give kisses to both people and other dogs.

Finding them homes is truly bittersweet. I am trying to handle them a good bit, I keep their nails short to get them used to nail clipping and protect Betty, and I cannot help but become attached to them. The reality is we cannot have 10 Mastiffs so I have to try to stay logical as well and do my best to find them loving homes.

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Yamizuma

Well-Known Member
Re: A Stressful Parasitic Accident...

Since a video was requested:
https://youtu.be/1dQA6HY3DpA
I have been told they sound like walruses.

I felt the first signs of their shark teeth coming through last night, and they are already like little razors. I have a new respect for Betty's tolerance and pain threshold. There is no way it can feel good with those little things digging into you. It looks like weaning will begin Monday.

Also I'll report the original post and see if a moderator can change the title to something more easily searched. This became sort of a blog on the experience and if it can help someone else then they should be able to find it.

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Grrrrrrrr.......arrrrrrrgh! Oh thank you for this! They are so damn cute!
I would also want to keep them all...which means you will be exactly the kind of litter mom mom that will try your best to find them loving monkeys to care for them and love them for you.

Great new name for this thread!

My friend that specializes in rescuing pregnant moms and newborn pups is very special indeed. But you are experiencing the real deal of having a litter. The loss of pups that didn't make it, the gross stuff, the wonderful things, the worries for Momma are even more amplified for you!

Respect to you.

My friend relies on the kindness of the rescues she helps, vets that give them a break because they also care, the network of caring people who can find her tons of newspaper, unusual groups of folks do donate food...and yes, she pays for a fair bit from her own not wealthy pocket. She also fosters special needs human children, who thrive in the care of her and her wonderful husband. We help as we can. We constructed a whelping room in an old horse stall in a barn on the farm they rent with materials donated by various sources and Ourselves. She has all the linens and towels we could scrounge up, and I never just buy laundry soap or bleach for me...but at least twice as much for them too.

I hope that others reading your thread will really hear YOU though. one litter is a lot of work when you are really doing it right. It can be risky for momma dog. It can be nerve wracking and tragic. It can also connect you with the wonder of new life...but it really is a big deal to take it on and there's lots to think through when you're with the momma and not just the poppa.

Your babies are awesome, and clearly were meant to be here!

Love to them from me? Cuddles from me too, please! It's great for them and you!


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Ugh I want to read it ALL but it's currently 25 mins past my bedtime lol. Posting to subscribe I shall be back!

Sorry for the loss. That's always tough.

You are doing a great job! Grats on the lil bundles of joy and gl finding them homes.
 

Iymala

Well-Known Member
The puppies turned 3 weeks old yesterday and everyone is still gaining weight, learning to run around, and trying out their voices. I finally have been able to move back to the master bedroom, which was such a nice change. Betty is still nursing them and cleaning up after them. I have decided to hold off weaning until she lets me know it's time.

She finally let Claymore into the puppy area. He was very well behaved and is even more cautious than she is about not stepping on a puppy.
20150921_105648_zpsqhlg9ljl.jpg

Granted, this look says it all.
20150921_105644_zpsrfknxddr.jpg


Yesterday I attempted to set up a potty area with large pine shavings.... that was a horrible idea. Everyone, including Betty just wanted to lay and play in it and got them everywhere. I also realized there really is no point in setting up the wood chips until Betty is done cleaning up after the puppies. It was suggested that the potty area be furtherest away from the entrance to the puppy area, but that happens to be where Betty enjoys laying and nursing so that really did not work. I changed the the potty area to the entrance, using one of the Midwest XXL crate pans for the target potty area. It is what I was using to hold the wood chips, but now it just sits empty.

I have also included a small/medium wire crate into the puppy area to get them familiar with wire crates and jump start their crate training for when they go to their new homes. I tend to stuff them all in there when i am cleaning the area and they really enjoy sleeping in it. They will not come out until they are hungry, at which point they maul Betty.

Here are some pictures of the area yesterday:
Puppies checking out the crate:
20150920_112440_zpscve77wl4.jpg

The previous potty area with wood chips:
20150920_112431_zpsxakqujn5.jpg

View of the whole area:
20150920_112449_zpszjl0bg82.jpg

Changes made today and woodchips removed:
20150921_114938_zpsmvrqg6zk.jpg

The woodchips really bothered my sense of cleanliness and order. They got everywhere, but I still wanted to enlarge the puppy area to give them more room to explore with different surfaces. I always wanted to make sure Betty had enough room to comfortably nurse. I like the set up I have settled on for both of those needs.

Babies sleeping in their crate:
20150921_114946_zpsmijcnfut.jpg

They are very comfortable in the crate, and getting out and into it. They have been snoozing for a few hours in there.

They have really started to play with one another and looking towards people for interaction. When we move to the new house this weekend, I am moving their area into the middle of the living room, and setting up a nice outside area they can take trips to explore the outside. I want them to be in a more high traffic area than being in their own room as they develop a bit more. I will also start allowing prospective homes to start visiting the puppies next weekend when they are almost 5 weeks old. I feel like that is a good point in development for the puppies to start really coming out of their shells, they will have begun weaning around that point, and are just generally more active.


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Iymala

Well-Known Member
So they used their potty area and it was awesome! Some disinfectant and a wash cloth and the pan wiped right up. I was just tickled to watch them all hold it, walk over to the pan and everyone.... I think, at least most of them, peed on the pan. Then it was crazy puppy play time.

Once I cleaned the pan, I sat in the back of the area and got a little video of them playing. One waited till I was done cleaning to go, but thats ok. They are becoming so much more adventurous, and they come over when they are awake and see me. They climb on me and even tried eating my leg with their little, mostly toothless mouths.

[video=youtube_share;kdNKU4e5o00]http://youtu.be/kdNKU4e5o00[/video]


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