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How to choose the right trainer?

M

musicdeb

Well-Known Member
YW! I'm looking for a trainer for Titan and found those sites. I have calls and emails into 5 different trainers. I want them to come to the apartment to train.
 
M

musicdeb

Well-Known Member
I spoke with a trainer who will do two 2 hr sessions + ecollar for $600 which includes lifetime lessons at the kennel.

I have a few more trainers to hear from. I'm not to happy with ecollar but he said with Titan's size,it's the only thing that will work.
 
M

Maks

Active Member
musicdeb said:
I spoke with a trainer who will do two 2 hr sessions + ecollar for $600 which includes lifetime lessons at the kennel.

I have a few more trainers to hear from. I'm not to happy with ecollar but he said with Titan's size,it's the only thing that will work.
Click to expand...

Maks is my first DDB, but we had Dane's growing up. My mother has a Dane now that we got her for Christmas 5 years ago and her current husband insisted on an ecollar. He has been shocked ONCE and to this day knows that collar means business. I was talking to her the other day and she mentioned that Brody, (her Dane) started barking like crazy. My stepdad pulled the collar from the drawer and threw it on the floor....instant silence.....lol. I think it all depends on the dog. With Maks I don't want to use one because he shows signs of fear and I don't want to make him worse.

It's also nice to know someone in search of a good trainer and I look forward to hearing about your experience.
 
M

musicdeb

Well-Known Member
Titan is my first DDB. His past owner would hit him so he has fear aggression. I asked the trainer if the ecollar would cause him to become more fear aggressive and he said no. He said Titan would probably have to wear it for about 90 days but it depended on Titan.

I'm not so sure. I'm going to research ecollars and the pros and cons.

He told me that at the end of the training, Titan would be able to walk off leash and remain next to me and do every command without me voicing them, he will do them by my hand motions.

Check them out at alldogsunleashed.com I watched the videos and I was impressed.

I'll post more as I hear from the different trainers.
 
joshuagough

joshuagough

Well-Known Member
The training session is 2hrs straight thru? That's asking a lot of the dog if that entire period is spent working with them.. I would question that.

Secondly there's nothing that can't be done with a leash that a e-collar can do, other than distance commands.




musicdeb said:
I spoke with a trainer who will do two 2 hr sessions + ecollar for $600 which includes lifetime lessons at the kennel.

I have a few more trainers to hear from. I'm not to happy with ecollar but he said with Titan's size,it's the only thing that will work.
Click to expand...
 
M

musicdeb

Well-Known Member
The 2 hr training is them working with me and then Titan and then the both of us.

Thank you for your input re: the ecollar, Joshua. I'm really skeptical about using the ecollar.

Titan's issue is lunging at people (mostly men) and some dogs, especially male dogs. The trainer said that it was a sign of aggression and that the ecollar would stop that.

I'm really on fence about this trainer. I'm waiting to hear from 4 more trainers.

I value your opinion, Josh. Thank you!
 
joshuagough

joshuagough

Well-Known Member
"I asked the trainer if the ecollar would cause him to become more fear aggressive and he said no"

There's no way a trainer can predict a dogs reaction to a stem from a e-collar, it's a unknown feeling to a dog. One thing you do with a E-Collar (or should do) is layer it in with leash training. This minimizes the dog thinking the stem comes from the ground/god/out side sources.. many times folks miss use e-collars and the dog will associate the stem with something around them.. which turns into a BIG problem to work out.

There's not a lot of con's to e-collars if it's used correctly, but that "used correctly" bit is often messed up. The one thing I do like about them is I can use a vibrate function on them to accomplish about 98% of what I want. When I do have to give the dog a stem I can use much less "pressure" than I would with a leash on a stubborn dog.

Tucker and each of my rescues would work off of hand signals or voice command and I used zero E-Collar training with them. Just a leash and collar.

One thing you want to ensure he does is allow Titan the chance to 1. Understand what he's being asked and 2. have the chance to make the right choice. All to often e-collars are used giving the dog a stem, asking them to preform the command to turn off the stem.. that is the wrong, wrong, wrong way to go about it.




musicdeb said:
Titan is my first DDB. His past owner would hit him so he has fear aggression. I asked the trainer if the ecollar would cause him to become more fear aggressive and he said no. He said Titan would probably have to wear it for about 90 days but it depended on Titan.

I'm not so sure. I'm going to research ecollars and the pros and cons.

He told me that at the end of the training, Titan would be able to walk off leash and remain next to me and do every command without me voicing them, he will do them by my hand motions.

Check them out at alldogsunleashed.com I watched the videos and I was impressed.

I'll post more as I hear from the different trainers.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
M

musicdeb

Well-Known Member
The trainer did say that they would use a regular collar and the ecollar.

RE: One thing you want to ensure he does is allow Titan the chance to 1. Understand what he's being asked and 2. have the chance to make the right choice. All to often e-collars are used giving the dog a stem, asking them to preform the command to turn off the stem.. that is the wrong wrong wrong way to go about it.

He did mention that the ecollar would encourage Titan to do what was asked of him. I told him what I've already trained Titan to do and he said that I wasn't a trainer.

He kept saying Titan was aggressive. I told him that Titan only lunges when the man talks to me or I talk to him but I know Titan's body language and bring him to a sit and tell him to look at me when I see he's going to lunge. The trainer said that an 130 lb dog cannot be stopped by a woman or even a big man when they want to lunge after someone.

I think after communicating with you, I'm not going to go with this trainer.

Thanks Joshua!
 
joshuagough

joshuagough

Well-Known Member
This is going to be me sounding like a jerk.. and It's not directed toward you.. but if this happens "pulled the collar from the drawer and threw it on the floor....instant silence".. they've abused a dog with a e-collar.

To say the dog knows the collar means business is not training.. the collar has just been made to make the dog fear the owner. The dog should have no fear of a e-collar, he/she shouldn't be bias to it in anyway. You want the dog to obey *your* command (be it voice, hand signal whatever), not the collar.

The dog should have zero issue with the collar, there's a period I specifically work on which is the dog wearing the collar for weeks with no use of the any of the functionality of the transmitter. This desensitizes the dog from the collar.


Maks said:
Maks is my first DDB, but we had Dane's growing up. My mother has a Dane now that we got her for Christmas 5 years ago and her current husband insisted on an ecollar. He has been shocked ONCE and to this day knows that collar means business. I was talking to her the other day and she mentioned that Brody, (her Dane) started barking like crazy. My stepdad pulled the collar from the drawer and threw it on the floor....instant silence.....lol. I think it all depends on the dog. With Maks I don't want to use one because he shows signs of fear and I don't want to make him worse.

It's also nice to know someone in search of a good trainer and I look forward to hearing about your experience.
Click to expand...
 
joshuagough

joshuagough

Well-Known Member
Tried to added in my comments in red.

musicdeb said:
The trainer did say that they would use a regular collar and the ecollar. - That's what you want them to do if they are going to use a ecollar. I'm a fan of e-collars, however I want the dog to be solid on leash commands before I step into the ecollar.. IMO even more so with dogs with possible aggression issues. Titan may have no adverse reaction to the stem but if he does, your going to have a annoyed 130lb issue that ain't going to be no fun to deal with.

RE: One thing you want to ensure he does is allow Titan the chance to 1. Understand what he's being asked and 2. have the chance to make the right choice. All to often e-collars are used giving the dog a stem, asking them to preform the command to turn off the stem.. that is the wrong wrong wrong way to go about it.

He did mention that the ecollar would encourage Titan to do what was asked of him. I told him what I've already trained Titan to do and he said that I wasn't a trainer. - I would tell him he needs to learn some respect first off, you should never speak disrespectfully like that to a owner. As for the stem encouraging Titan to do what was ask, this is true (in a sense) if it works as he plans. If it doesn't then he's left with basically breaking down your dogs spirit because you will have to force his compliance, which can be done.. and he'll come out on the other side obeying commands but can again turn into serious issues if he reverts back later on.. also the main thing is this isn't the correct way to go about it.

He kept saying Titan was aggressive. I told him that Titan only lunges when the man talks to me or I talk to him but I know Titan's body language and bring him to a sit and tell him to look at me when I see he's going to lunge. The trainer said that an 130 lb dog cannot be stopped by a woman or even a big man when they want to lunge after someone. - Titan is lunging when it's not appropriate which does need to be corrected, weather he's aggressive or not.. he needs to know that's unacceptable. I'd say there's truth to Titan not being able to be stopped if he truly wanted to get to someone.. a 130lbs with his center of gravity could put you on your butt real quick lol, it would be over before you knew it was started.

The way you combat the issue is start with the correct behavior basic o.b. with no distractions (in side your home/yard etc).. get to the point you drill him.. sit / lay / stand / shake on and on and on.. he needs to respond without flaw.. then you progress your way towards things that set Titan off.. strange men etc.

I go thru the same routine over and over and get closer to my distractions, if he get's out of line and he knows what's being ask.. he gets a correction. I start with a level 3 correction (with the leash).. I jump in increments of 4.. I don't think I've ever gotten passed a 2nd stage with but 1 dog and that was with another dog running up on us.

People get lost in specific behavior problems before the dog even has good o.b. down pat.. dogs can't execute the play if they haven't been coached on the playbook :)

I think after communicating with you, I'm not going to go with this trainer. - I'm not trying to discourage you from this trainer or any, I can find flaws with all the ones I know but I like certain aspects each of them bring to the table also. I was just trying to give you thought starters and things I would require. I don't think trainers that use e-collars are bad at all.. I do have a strong opinion on the introduction of the e-collar and the pre-reqs tho.

Thanks Joshua!
Click to expand...
 
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M

Maks

Active Member
This is not you sounding "like a jerk", this is simply you not being there or knowing what happened. The collar that they have, which may be the same with all ecollars--not sure because I have never purchased one--there is an option for a signal, which is just a beep, and then there is an option to shock. The dog was shocked once. Beeps have been used to get his attention but he knows the collar.

He simply stops his behavior when he sees the collar.

joshuagough said:
This is going to be me sounding like a jerk.. and It's not directed toward you.. but if this happens "pulled the collar from the drawer and threw it on the floor....instant silence".. they've abused a dog with a e-collar.

To say the dog knows the collar means business is not training.. the collar has just been made to make the dog fear the owner. The dog should have no fear of a e-collar, he/she shouldn't be bias to it in anyway. You want the dog to obey *your* command (be it voice, hand signal whatever), not the collar.

The dog should have zero issue with the collar, there's a period I specifically work on which is the dog wearing the collar for weeks with no use of the any of the functionality of the transmitter. This desensitizes the dog from the collar.
Click to expand...
 
M

Maks

Active Member
If I was working close with a trainer that had met my dog and I felt comfortable with them, and that trainer suggested an ecollar would help, I might attempt it. If it feels right to you, then it might be right for your situation.


musicdeb said:
Titan is my first DDB. His past owner would hit him so he has fear aggression. I asked the trainer if the ecollar would cause him to become more fear aggressive and he said no. He said Titan would probably have to wear it for about 90 days but it depended on Titan.

I'm not so sure. I'm going to research ecollars and the pros and cons.

He told me that at the end of the training, Titan would be able to walk off leash and remain next to me and do every command without me voicing them, he will do them by my hand motions.

Check them out at alldogsunleashed.com I watched the videos and I was impressed.

I'll post more as I hear from the different trainers.
Click to expand...
 
joshuagough

joshuagough

Well-Known Member
Glad to know that's the case then.. what kind of dog is this? It would sound to be a highly sensitive dog.

I would also still want the dog to stop because I told him to, what happens when I don't have the collar?

Maks said:
This is not you sounding "like a jerk", this is simply you not being there or knowing what happened. The collar that they have, which may be the same with all ecollars--not sure because I have never purchased one--there is an option for a signal, which is just a beep, and then there is an option to shock. The dog was shocked once. Beeps have been used to get his attention but he knows the collar.

He simply stops his behavior when he sees the collar.
Click to expand...
 
M

musicdeb

Well-Known Member
Joshua, can you please clarify this?

I go thru the same routine over and over and get closer to my distractions, if he get's out of line and he knows what's being ask.. he gets a correction. I start with a level 3 correction (with the leash).. I jump in increments of 4.. I don't think I've ever gotten passed a 2nd stage with but 1 dog and that was with another dog running up on us.
 
M

musicdeb

Well-Known Member
Maks said:
If I was working close with a trainer that had met my dog and I felt comfortable with them, and that trainer suggested an ecollar would help, I might attempt it. If it feels right to you, then it might be right for your situation.
Click to expand...
I agree. Like I said, I am waiting to hear from other trainers. If the ecollar will work for Titan, then I'm cool with it. However, the way this trainer described it, he will use the collar to force Titan with shock to perform. That I'm not cool with.
 
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