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How to choose the right trainer?

Maks

Active Member
I am in the process of finding a trainer for my 21 month old French Mastiff to help, or hopefully eliminate his fear aggression. I think the best option would be one who could take him in and work directly with him as opposed to someone who will just show me what to do. Have any of you worked with trainers to fix behavior issues, and if so, how did you find them? Referrals, online searches? He has an appointment at the vet tomorrow for his shots, and I will ask her if she recommends anyone.

Also, because I've never had to look into this before I'm not sure what a good price is for something like this. I've gotten a price from a place that will take him in for 4 weeks for $2000, and another that will take him for 2 weeks for $2500. Both of them guarantee their work of course but I'm curious if these prices sound reasonable?

Any advice any of you can give would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!!
 

musicdeb

Well-Known Member
Where are you located? IMO, it helps to have you do the training with instruction from a trainer. Confirm that they have had experience training a mastiff and they use positive reinforcement rather than fear training which will defeat the purpose.

How do you know he has fear aggression?
 

Maks

Active Member
Where are you located? IMO, it helps to have you do the training with instruction from a trainer. Confirm that they have had experience training a mastiff and they use positive reinforcement rather than fear training which will defeat the purpose.

How do you know he has fear aggression?

I am located in the FL Panhandle. I would love to be able to do the training with instruction, but the last thing I want to do is make him any worse. If someone could work with us close enough to make sure I don't make any mistakes, that is another option.

I have not been told by a trainer yet of course, but to me I think it is fear aggression. His body language shows scared....tail tucked, head down while walking, he jumps at loud sounds. I haven't been able to take him for a walk during the day for weeks because they are building a new house in our neighborhood and all the sounds from that make him want to take off running, (which he has tried to do a couple times.) We rarely have company anymore because he does not like people he doesn't know. He is ok if they actually listen and act as if he is invisible, but if they attempt to touch him he will growl and try to run and hide from them. (Kills me when you have a mastiff and you tell someone DO NOT try to touch him. Let him come to you if he decides he wants to, and that is one of the first things a couple people have done!...try to pet him.) So of course that only reassures his fears.

I'm definitely in need of some help.
 

Gabbi2008

Well-Known Member
I'm sorry about your situation. I have no helpful advice, but please keep us posted on your final decision, and your results. I hope everything works out for you!
 

Bean

Well-Known Member
I'm sorry to hear about your troubles. Just be very careful when selecting your behaviour specialist. Make sure you trust them, they have credentials, you have checked references etc. Good and genuine trainers will meet with you for an assessment at no charge to see if they can even help your case.

Just some caution from someone who was in Africa while her previous dog was at a "behaviour rehabilitation centre" that was raided by police bc the owner was convicted of abusing, losing, selling and fighting the dogs in his care. Luckily all I lost was my money. If I can help you in any way, just make sure you do your research, and know that there may not be a quick fix without your participation :) good luck with everything, I hope your pup gains the confidence he needs and I wish you the very best!
 

DennasMom

Well-Known Member
My sister had a dog with fear/anxiety issues... she would also snap at random people... she was (at the time) a 6 month old border collie/blue heeler mix. Very high energy. My sister is a dog-smart person, but also felt the need for professional assistance. She found a board & train place (not sure how she selected them) and signed up for their 2 week program - which was also 'guaranteed'. They ended up keeping her for an extra 2 weeks... she was a hard case!! Then, when she was returned to my sister, they had a number of followup visits with her, where they trained HER on how to manage the dog... because it is an ongoing management issue.

After the boarding experience, her dog could FINALLY relax! They taught her a very, very strong "place" command. My sister puts out the dog's bed, says "place", and that dog DIVES for the bed... lays down, looks back at my sister with a relaxed smile on her face and basically says "Thank you for giving me a safe place to sit!"

Since then, she has actually hopped on to my Dad's lap and given HIM kisses!! (she was VERY anti-man before her board & train experience).
So... a very positive experience. She's in the Livermore, CA area, so not much help there...

My sister also travels a lot for work, so now when she's out of town, the dog goes back to one of their trainers to board with them in their house. A great option (but not cheap, of course). I don't know what they charged, either...

Get references and talk to past clients - especially other mastiffs and/or guardian breed parents.
Listen to your gut, if you're not completely comfortable trusting your fur-kid with the person, walk away.
 

Hector

Well-Known Member
All you can do is build his confidence, ignore him when he's scared, and keep on walking on the walks. How well does he know basic commands? Work on that on your walks and in different environments. If he is afraid of a certain thing say a statue, you can start by walking far away enough where he doesn't feel scared. I have a shepherd that's afraid of loud sounds like closing kitchen drawers, opening up a garbage bag, garbage/ups trucks. For the indoor noises, I just ignore his skittish behavior. I would continue to play fetch with him (favorite game) in the yard even when trucks pull up. I would keep calling his name and encourage him to play. Over time he gets used to it, but once in awhile he'll dart. I also have a mastiff that was scared of statues. I didn't know that until we walked close enough towards one. First I walked pass it giving us enough distance and then the next day I walked past at a faster pace and at a closer distance and I tossed treats around it so he would make himself go towards it. Then finally we did some obedience around the things and the statues no longer bother him. When he becomes fixated and unsure of something, you can call his name and bring his focus back onto you.

You need to find out what kinds of methods they are using to "cure" this fear aggression in a matter of weeks. I think it's better for the owner to work with the dog one on one because they can point out what you're doing right/wrong and the reasoning behind it.

Maybe you can get something out of these videos

Look at that game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fU1gAI42MH4
[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Adbbgis2svA"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Adbbgis2svA



[/URL]
 

musicdeb

Well-Known Member
I agree with the suggestions and advice. Build her confidence and do not baby her when she is afraid.

How long have you had her?

I hear ya about the reaction to other people. Titan doesn't like people he does not know especially men and especially black men. His past owner who was not black would hit him and kept him locked up in his crate in a room for 10-12 hours a day. Titan had no socialization or training.

I've had Titan for 20 months and he's slowly improving.

It's great that you can read her body language. Know when she's going to strike. Bring her away from the object/person who she wants to strike at and bring her to a sit and tell her to look/focus on you. Tell her it's ok. Slowly return to the object/person and reward her when she is able to approach without wanting to strike.

This step requires LOTS of patience, consistency with positive reinforcement and do not allow the pup to feel your frustration. Frustration causes the pup to shut down even more.

The pup may also feel your anxiety because you know her pattern and you tense up because of her past reactions. She can feel your anxiety and she will react accordingly.

At your home, when people come in, crate her until they have been in the house for a few minutes. Bring her out on leash and tell everyone "do not touch, talk or look". Give the pup time to approach them on her own time. Hopefully, she will relax and just be. Have her remain at sit beside you until she is completely relaxed around them.
 

Maks

Active Member
Thank you all for all of your advice and support. Hector--thank you for the videos.

The vet visit this morning was kinda stressful. Once we got signed in and sat down in the waiting room, he was able to relax enough for me to work through some commands with him. Simple, like sit, down, and shake. I was surprised he was willing to cooperate, but I did have a pocketful of treats which was helpful. When we went into the room I muzzled him, then the vet tech came back in to walk us back to weigh him. (111 lbs) He was so scared. The vet tech touched him just to try and center him on the scale, but touching him just made it worse. He probably would have snapped if not for the muzzle. I finally persuaded him to do a sit and wait on the scale so they could get an accurate read. Then back into the exam room to wait for the vet.

Actually getting him to hold still for his shot was difficult. And again, without the muzzle, I'm sure a bite would have taken place either to the vet or maybe even myself for holding him still. We were able to talk about his behavior and she did recommend a trainer that she has used personally....I have already called him and left a message for him to call me back. We will see what he says.

We did talk a bit about why he may be acting this way. I have had him since he was 9 weeks and he has never been in any situation that would give him a reason to. Because of that she thinks he will benefit from medication for his anxiety, like Prozac. Especially to help him through his training she mentioned, because right now no one else can so much as touch him without him freaking out.

Do any of you have experience with medication like that?? I am willing to try anything to help him, but success stories always make me feel better.
 

Tgrimmett

Member
Hello. I am having a similiar problem. It took me nearly 6 months to find a behaviorist that I approved of in my rual area. I just started working with someone that I really like so far. Her way of treating my dog seemed strange at first, but she is actually calmer. I didn't want to send my dog to a trainer, because I'm a paranoid person. I don't know what someone will do to my dog when I'm not watching. Also, it doesn't help me at all if my dog would behave for the trainer and then not for me. I wanted someone to give me the tools and information to use to make her relaxed. Good luck with your search. i had almost given up on finding one, when I found her.
 

Hector

Well-Known Member
Thank you all for all of your advice and support. Hector--thank you for the videos.

The vet visit this morning was kinda stressful. Once we got signed in and sat down in the waiting room, he was able to relax enough for me to work through some commands with him. Simple, like sit, down, and shake. I was surprised he was willing to cooperate, but I did have a pocketful of treats which was helpful. When we went into the room I muzzled him, then the vet tech came back in to walk us back to weigh him. (111 lbs) He was so scared. The vet tech touched him just to try and center him on the scale, but touching him just made it worse. He probably would have snapped if not for the muzzle. I finally persuaded him to do a sit and wait on the scale so they could get an accurate read. Then back into the exam room to wait for the vet.

Actually getting him to hold still for his shot was difficult. And again, without the muzzle, I'm sure a bite would have taken place either to the vet or maybe even myself for holding him still. We were able to talk about his behavior and she did recommend a trainer that she has used personally....I have already called him and left a message for him to call me back. We will see what he says.

We did talk a bit about why he may be acting this way. I have had him since he was 9 weeks and he has never been in any situation that would give him a reason to. Because of that she thinks he will benefit from medication for his anxiety, like Prozac. Especially to help him through his training she mentioned, because right now no one else can so much as touch him without him freaking out.

Do any of you have experience with medication like that?? I am willing to try anything to help him, but success stories always make me feel better.

Use as much treats as you need. Use very good treats (stinky, freeze dried liver, real meat) when you are out and about. It didn't sound like the vet visit went too bad. In my opinion it was normal reaction. I have two dogs that act that way at the vet. Always muzzle and we put them in a headlock and let the vets do what they need to. When the dog is motivated enough to listen, he will be in a less fearful state of mind. Keep working on the walks. You can do things like walk one step, stop and have him sit and treat. Repeat several times. Then you can maybe walk backwards and have the dog follow you while you walk backwards ( I found this one work the best because the dogs get confused and just follow). Don't skimp on the treats. Keep the sessions short and do it multiple times. Here is a thread of some exercises you can try when you take him out.

Loose leash walking - videos and articles - Mastiff Forum
 

musicdeb

Well-Known Member
Titan has to wear a muzzle to the vet too. I have to hold him while they give him a shot or exam him. I think my vet is afraid of Titan which feeds into Titan's behavior.

IMO, prozac is not needed for his behavior. Maybe you take a prozac to help you calm down around the pup. hehehehehehe

Your fear and excitement, excites the pup. It's up to you to show the pup what he needs to do.
 

Maks

Active Member
Use as much treats as you need. Use very good treats (stinky, freeze dried liver, real meat) when you are out and about. It didn't sound like the vet visit went too bad. In my opinion it was normal reaction. I have two dogs that act that way at the vet. Always muzzle and we put them in a headlock and let the vets do what they need to. When the dog is motivated enough to listen, he will be in a less fearful state of mind. Keep working on the walks. You can do things like walk one step, stop and have him sit and treat. Repeat several times. Then you can maybe walk backwards and have the dog follow you while you walk backwards ( I found this one work the best because the dogs get confused and just follow). Don't skimp on the treats. Keep the sessions short and do it multiple times. Here is a thread of some exercises you can try when you take him out.

Loose leash walking - videos and articles - Mastiff Forum

Hector, thank you for making me feel better about our vet visit. I guess what worries me is that if he didn't have the muzzle, I think I would have been fair game for a bite too. And it probably was worse because even the vet told me that she was surprised I thought he may bite me too. It's just when he gets in his "zone" as I call it, I don't know that he would care who he bit if they were ignoring his warning.

I took cooked hot dogs for his treats, which he likes but I could probably find something even better as you suggested. I will have to do some experimenting here to see what will REALLY make him pay attention to me instead of stressing so much over his environment. I am also starting to use signs with his basic commands with hopes of him eventually moving out of strictly voice commands so that he will be more apt to focus on me. I'm grasping at straws here.

The vet also suggested neutering to help. Any thoughts?

Titan has to wear a muzzle to the vet too. I have to hold him while they give him a shot or exam him. I think my vet is afraid of Titan which feeds into Titan's behavior.

IMO, prozac is not needed for his behavior. Maybe you take a prozac to help you calm down around the pup. hehehehehehe

Your fear and excitement, excites the pup. It's up to you to show the pup what he needs to do.

Thank you as well musicdeb. It really helps to hear from others who experience similar situations. Haha, and you're probably right about me needing the prozac! I tell myself to be calm, but that's easier said than done. I think we are both in need of some training! :)
 

Hector

Well-Known Member
Hector, thank you for making me feel better about our vet visit. I guess what worries me is that if he didn't have the muzzle, I think I would have been fair game for a bite too. And it probably was worse because even the vet told me that she was surprised I thought he may bite me too. It's just when he gets in his "zone" as I call it, I don't know that he would care who he bit if they were ignoring his warning.

I will have to do some experimenting here to see what will REALLY make him pay attention to me instead of stressing so much over his environment.

And the vet had no muzzle available?

You are right to find out what gets his attention (his name, a certain command say hand target, "turn" command, a click, saying "ah ah", etc) and practice that and then try it out.
 

Maks

Active Member
And the vet had no muzzle available?

You are right to find out what gets his attention (his name, a certain command say hand target, "turn" command, a click, saying "ah ah", etc) and practice that and then try it out.

Actually it was the vets muzzle I had to use. I have a muzzle on order that is supposed to arrive tomorrow. :-/ Hopefully this one fits. At that point I will work on training him with his own muzzle and I feel like that is one less strange thing he will have to deal with.

Are you able to take your dogs to other public places without muzzles?
 

Hector

Well-Known Member
Actually it was the vets muzzle I had to use. I have a muzzle on order that is supposed to arrive tomorrow. :-/ Hopefully this one fits. At that point I will work on training him with his own muzzle and I feel like that is one less strange thing he will have to deal with.

Are you able to take your dogs to other public places without muzzles?

I don't take the old female anywhere. She's too old and people see her as "cute" all the time. I take Hector to pet stores. I take both dogs on walks without a muzzle. Vet time is always muzzle time for both. The old female is more dangerous than Hector to be honest. I don't let anyone approach them. If they want to talk to me, I make sure Hector is in a sit by me and his body language is calm and just speculating and not ready to lunge. If he's acting curious and breaks a sit, then I move back and make more distance or just tell the person it's time for us to go. I have a leash tag that says "do not pet". I also say he's not friendly and keep it at that. I also make sure collars and leashes are strong so accidents can't happen. Dog is happy and comfortable, humans are happy. If you want to order a leash tag I can give you the etsy site I ordered from. Most importantly reading your dog's body language will enable you to make the right decisions.

RSCN0262.jpg
 

Maks

Active Member
Yes! The link for the leash tag would be great! Most people, if they even ask to pet him, tend to ignore me when I say he doesn't like strangers. Then look at me like I'm terrible for keeping a dog like him if he growls at them. I myself obviously have a lot to learn about helping mine through his issues, but I was raised never to touch a dog I didn't know. Not many people seem to practice that anymore....around here anyway.


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