What's new
Mastiff Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Welcome back!

    We decided to spruce things up and fix some things under the hood. If you notice any issues, feel free to contact us as we're sure there are a few things here or there that we might have missed in our upgrade.

Has anyone received a quote from ObamaCare yet?

joshuagough

Well-Known Member
You seriously aren't making that argument sober, I hope. There's a cause and effect to every government mandate. You might not be that bright but I know ya ain't that dumb either.

.0005 is better than your logic..


I get your point. But no, the govt has not raised any rates. The rates you get are rates generated by insurance companies. Not the govt. The govt simply mandated you have ins. The ins comps have raised the rate.

Two totally different things there.
 

thelady_v2010

Well-Known Member
I know of two very good staunch republicans that are very happy that Obamacare passed. One has a daughter with some kind of kidney disease and she has been able to stay on his policy and will now be able to get her own policy when the time comes because they can't deny her anymore. Another has heart disease and has just been praying that nothing happened to him until he could get insurance.

While some may be whining, others are very grateful. Can't please all the people all the time.

Dictation or Entitlement, whatever it is, the solution is the same. Find a job with good insurance benefits. You have to live with what life dealt ya! Right now you've got you a dictator.

I only brought up Bushie to empathize with you. I counted the days until that dumb ass was out of office.


Yeah, don't compare Obama to the guy that started and badly prepared 2 wars that killed thousands of Americans. We all know nothing compares to money, the most important thing in the world. The guy that affects the bottom line is infinitely worse than the guy that is responsible for lost lives.

BARF.
 

joshuagough

Well-Known Member
No one truly knew the ACA nor the true implications, it was sold as being optional. If you liked what you have you keep it "period".. said time and again. However today the great dictator that's not qualified to run a hot dog stand much less our country came out with a "fix" for his great healthcare over haul.

Rebs & Dems aren't out to make friends, they are out to make money for the one's who put them in office and lined their pockets. That's reason enough to say as I did.. the government should not be in charge of health care reform.. they can help pave the way for good competition but name me one thing they've taken over & operated effectively?


I don't think that nobody wanted it. I think that many were very hopeful because it's clear that something needs to be done. Is the ACA the solution? As it stands, I don't believe it is. Still, anyone that thinks that our current system doesn't need some tweeking must be looking at something different than I and my friends are.



This, exactly. Both of my children are Type 1 Diabetics. Eldest DD is 21 and was dx'd at 2yrs old. Younger is 18 and was dx'd at age 13 - and has just started on pills to prevent damage to her kidneys because despite our best efforts she's showing signs of early kidney disease. We're also waiting for results of a test that may indicate she has Addison's Disease.

Maybe I look at things differently than many other people, but then my circle of friends is largely made up of either dog people or parents of children with chronic disease. One of my friends just lost her 16yo DD to Cystic Fibrosis two weeks ago. (Purple for Colleen!) Her other daughter also has CF. I know that my friend has spent many nights worrying about how her children, now child, will pay to stay alive once she is off of their insurance. I can tell you that our monthly medical and pharmacy bill is equal to a mortgage payment. And I'm very thankful that I have insurance so I can afford, albeit with making sacrifices, to pay for my girls' care. I'm thankful that they can remain on our insurance until they are 26 and that they won't be denied coverage when they need to find their own. Yes, I know they will likely spend more. Still ... there is no way my children, or my friend's remaining daughter, could afford their meds/supplies/doctors without some kind of insurance. Their health care will never be less expensive. It's a fact. And I often wonder how people without some kind of insurance can afford to treat a chronic disease.

I'm not saying that it's right that those who had health insurance are looking at going without. It absolutely isn't. It's also not right that some people need insurance and are denied or can't afford it. My hope is that "affordable" will, with changes, become truly affordable. I also tend to think that if there were a little less hatred between the two sides, perhaps a viable solution could be figured out.
 
Last edited:

chuckorlando

Well-Known Member
Well I was explaining my take on what AB was saying.

Now explain to me how this policy doubles the cost to an insurance carrier. You say it's the govt who done it, so break down the loss to me.

If you can pin point cause you can explain it. And aint no one explained it to me so I would like to know.
 

joshuagough

Well-Known Member
So Bush has been hacking the healthcare.gov site? That's why it ain't working?

Even Clinton came out and said barry obama should honor what he's been preaching.. did you vote for that guy?

Yeah, don't compare Obama to the guy that started and badly prepared 2 wars that killed thousands of Americans. We all know nothing compares to money, the most important thing in the world. The guy that affects the bottom line is infinitely worse than the guy that is responsible for lost lives.

BARF.
 

chuckorlando

Well-Known Member
And being that the running theme is prices doubled, I expect to see this reflection in your break down. If you cant show me double the cost directly incurred due to the govt policy, I aint sure you can blame it on the govt policy. Might be the Ins comps know they have you by the balls now because you have no choice. So you pay what they want. Which is the capitalist way yea...
 

chuckorlando

Well-Known Member
Well Bush is the cause of over 1 million deaths. I dont rightly give a shit what Obama has done, what he spent, or what he mandated, if you think he was better then Obama on that point alone, your kinda fucked up. And thats just the foundation for which his shit pile of tragedy was built.
 

thelady_v2010

Well-Known Member
Well Bush is the cause of over 1 million deaths. I dont rightly give a shit what Obama has done, what he spent, or what he mandated, if you think he was better then Obama on that point alone, your kinda fucked up. And thats just the foundation for which his shit pile of tragedy was built.

Clap clap clap


Anything else pales in comparison to this. And if you don't think so, then again, BARF.
 

joshuagough

Well-Known Member
There are more taxes and fees associated with the ACA than before, there's a requirement to rate family members individually and the law eliminated health underwriting and waiting periods for preexisting conditions (which causes the largest effect in my state).

The underwriting and preexisting condition explanations may be the most significant because now everyone can join the insurance pool, and actually are required or pay a penalty if they don't.

Before ACA, insurance companies in many states, such as Alabama (my state), were allowed to offer younger, healthier individuals much lower rates than older sicker individuals.

Alabama had allowed medical underwriting, if you were going to be quoted a high premium , you have something wrong with you (which is justified being the insurance was going to shell out a lot for your care).

This means that those with expensive health problems will likely now jump in and buy coverage because it will be less expensive for them, or if they already have coverage their rates will go down. But that also means rates will go up for everyone else as the insurer spreads that new cost around as the insurance companies have to make up for the loss revenue.

The thing that happens when you eliminate underwriting is that you lump dissimilar people together. When you combine groups, one group is better off and the other group is worse off, in terms of premium prices.

As a policy, the elimination of medical underwriting and preexisting condition clauses helps broaden access to health care coverage and that was the aim of its inclusion in the Affordable Care Act. Reformers say it eliminates insurers from "cherry-picking" and reduces uncompensated care.

Another factor in premium hikes relates to how insurance companies assesses families. In the past insurance companies were able to offer one family premium, no matter the size.

The ACA requires that each member on a policy be rated based on their age, address and tobacco use. Then all of these individual rates are added together to determine the family premium. As a result, larger families may experience higher premiums.

The new tax/law limits how much insurers can vary premiums based on age. There used to be five levels of age insurers could offer variable rates for, now there are three. The result is older consumers have new protections against premium increases, but younger individuals may see premium increases

The new law requires all health insurance companies in the individual and small group markets to use a consistent rating method called “member level rating.”

For the individual market, this means each person on an insurance policy will now be rated based on age, whether he or she uses tobacco, and the county in which the policy holder lives.

For the small group market, this means each person on an employer´s plan will now be rated based on age and the employer´s principal business address.

For family plans, most family members will be rated individually. Once each person has been rated, the amounts are added together to get a family´s premium cost. For children age 20 and younger, the oldest three children will be individually rated and included in the family premium amount. Any additional children age 20 and younger will not be added to the total cost, however all children on the plan who are age 21 and older will be individually rated and added to the total premium.

With age rating, insurers are required to charge variable rates up to a maximum ratio. For example, the maximum ratio for age rating is 3:1 for adults 21 and older. This means that premium rates for older adults are not allowed to exceed more than three times the rate of a younger person. Age for rating purposes is determined on the date the policy is issued.

With tobacco usage rating, consumers 18 years or older who used tobacco an average of four or more times per week during the past six months can be rated at a maximum of 1.5 times more than a nonsmoker.

The long story short is this there is no free lunch.. As I said there's a cause and effect to every mandate. When the government makes it, you better believe it's always going to cost more.

Obamacare is a monster-of-a-trainwreck legislation. Everyone has to pay for it regardless. Under socialized medicine everyone is responsible for everyone else's decisions that impact their health.



Well I was explaining my take on what AB was saying.

Now explain to me how this policy doubles the cost to an insurance carrier. You say it's the govt who done it, so break down the loss to me.

If you can pin point cause you can explain it. And aint no one explained it to me so I would like to know.
 

joshuagough

Well-Known Member
I don't argue Bush over Obama it's a non factor he isn't the President nor the topic.. I just want another excuse other than "it's Bushes fault" we are a few years beyond that. That's the typical answer you get from the barry support however, uniformed and clueless to the world around them.

Well Bush is the cause of over 1 million deaths. I dont rightly give a shit what Obama has done, what he spent, or what he mandated, if you think he was better then Obama on that point alone, your kinda fucked up. And thats just the foundation for which his shit pile of tragedy was built.
 

joshuagough

Well-Known Member
Chuck lets his emotions get in the way of his logic, he's pissed because he wants a upgrade to a EM.. but then I would find out and he would never live it down.

What's with the BARF comment?

Clap clap clap


Anything else pales in comparison to this. And if you don't think so, then again, BARF.
 

joshuagough

Well-Known Member
If your theory is true that the insurance companies are the "shot callers" per say.. how is it today barry is going to give everyone a years grace period? They can just tell him to get lost, right.... because they will lose profit based on that cenario... wrong.

Your smarter than that.


And being that the running theme is prices doubled, I expect to see this reflection in your break down. If you cant show me double the cost directly incurred due to the govt policy, I aint sure you can blame it on the govt policy. Might be the Ins comps know they have you by the balls now because you have no choice. So you pay what they want. Which is the capitalist way yea...
 
Last edited:

chuckorlando

Well-Known Member
ahahahahahaha.

Those are very good points. Thank you for taking the time to explain that. I certainly see a flaw there. One that needs worked out no doubt. BUT... I highly doubt that has doubled your rates. In fact, I would bet some money that Ins comps will have record profits. And those laws or parts of legislature came about in direct relation to the many many many years of insurance comps raping us. Most every regulation stems from lack of self regulation. When we got hit with Hurricane charlie they all cried foul. They absolutely had to double rates and drop areas that posed threats. Even though them same areas in many cases have paid every month with zero issues in over 100yr. And as a state, we had not seen major trouble in about 20yr as a whole. Your roof blew off but with out that special wind policy your screwed. Oh you got wind huh, well with out that special flood policy you only get a roof. It's a damn joke. So we got screwed and they got regulated. And dont you know, there are massive areas here in the state that have no option but govt insurance cause all of a sudden, they cant fuck with you. It's this very thing that forces the govt to use their pimp hand. They raped us long enough now they got it up the rear. And them rates you see, have alot to do with their butt hurting. And I would bet money, their gonna get butt hurt even more when they further regulate what they can charge.

You do have very valid points and I dont really disagree. I just dont think thats the whole story
 

joshuagough

Well-Known Member
I've spent a lot of time trying to understand and find some good in this tax/law.. that is even if it sucks for me because "I" have to pay for others. Which I have zero issue with if that person is trying at life and pays back into the system once they are on their feet.

My wife & I served in a community (she still works in this same community for a non profit health facility), it's the poorest city/community in the metro area.. the place she works is a non profit that reaches out to minister to folks via the dream center (our church) and the (Christ Health Center) for physical needs... a holistic approach per say. There are folks that live off the government and there's those who are there because life happened to them.. or they made poor choices just as we all have. The place has taught me a lot as I've had the chance to connect with folks that have a relateable story, they think I have it made and I tell them a story of me living in a homeless shelter with my mom.. walls fall down at that point and life gets real.

I say all that to say this tax/law is designed to help those people, however they are logging in to get signed up and select plans and the premiums even with subsidies are more than what they would be if they went out and got coverage on their own before this tax/law. There isn't anyway you can tell me that's right. That irks me to no end.

Below is a quick link to a video of the Dream Center.. [video]http://highlandsworship.org/media[/video]






ahahahahahaha.

Those are very good points. Thank you for taking the time to explain that. I certainly see a flaw there. One that needs worked out no doubt. BUT... I highly doubt that has doubled your rates. In fact, I would bet some money that Ins comps will have record profits. And those laws or parts of legislature came about in direct relation to the many many many years of insurance comps raping us. Most every regulation stems from lack of self regulation. When we got hit with Hurricane charlie they all cried foul. They absolutely had to double rates and drop areas that posed threats. Even though them same areas in many cases have paid every month with zero issues in over 100yr. And as a state, we had not seen major trouble in about 20yr as a whole. Your roof blew off but with out that special wind policy your screwed. Oh you got wind huh, well with out that special flood policy you only get a roof. It's a damn joke. So we got screwed and they got regulated. And dont you know, there are massive areas here in the state that have no option but govt insurance cause all of a sudden, they cant fuck with you. It's this very thing that forces the govt to use their pimp hand. They raped us long enough now they got it up the rear. And them rates you see, have alot to do with their butt hurting. And I would bet money, their gonna get butt hurt even more when they further regulate what they can charge.

You do have very valid points and I dont really disagree. I just dont think thats the whole story
 
Last edited:

Sadies Mom

Well-Known Member
Is it not tru that the reason for the premium increases are also due to the Mandate what the Insurance companies HAVE to include to every single person regardless of gender? Why would a single man in his 30's have to pay for PAP-smears, childbirth, mamograms etc. I think that is the reson for the increases. Before you had the option to have these services included, now we have to pay for them, like it or not.
"If you like your healcare plan, you can keep your health care plan, period"
"if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor, period"
"The premiums will go down with about $2,500.00 per family, per year"
These are the statements made by the President over and over agin. Non of these are happening.
Going back in health insurance history, was the insurance not meant to be for catastrophic events? And "regular maintenence" not included? Same as with your car insurance, it helps you out in an accident. It does not cover oil changes and gas. If it was mandated that every single person in this country, has to carry a catastrophic plan at a minimum and if you want all the "fluff" so you can run your kid to the ER for a runny nose, that is optional, then I might have a different view on the whole thing. But as of right now, ACA SUCKS!!!!
 

Sadies Mom

Well-Known Member

Rugers-Kris

Well-Known Member
The argument of Bush vs. Obama is ridiculous......He had his time to be bashed and that time is done. As for the Government mandate being the cause of people losing their benefits, it absolutely is! The requirements for health plans have changed and made the plans that were offered through companies "unacceptable" and now people have lost those plans and the companies they work for cannot afford to offer the plans that would now be considered "acceptable" which would include, as Sadies mom said, men (32 years or older)having to have plans that cover maternity needs, a 65 year old woman will also have to have this on her plan.......There is a good chance that she will not be giving birth but HER plan must include that as well. I keep hearing it is the insurance companies.This isn't true. The insurance companies have and do take advantage and the healthcare in this country does need help but ACA is no it. The government mandate has forced the insurance company to change their plans to what they consider "appropriate" and that cost now goes down to the company offering benefits to their employees and the reality is that the plans will be MUCH more expensive to the company and the employee which has made it so that many companies have had to makes changes (drop people to part time, etc.) to cover themselves or risks the fines that they will be charged for not offering benefits to their employees. THAT is the reality.

Also, the bottom line is that he lied and he knew he was lying. We are NOT able to keep our plans if we are happy with them and we are NOT able to keep our doctors if we are happy with them. Healthcare for all of these people who were lied to will NOT be more affordable.

There are so many issues but these basics are enough to know that the ACA isn't working...CAN'T work.

Once again, those people who worked their ass off to earn their way and find and keep employment in which they could afford to provide medical coverage for their families will be "charged" in order to take care of those who won't take care of themselves. The free shit army will continue to receive their "freebies" which we pay for with outageous taxes AND we will be paying A LOT more for coverage we don't need so that all of the emergency room junkies that don't pay their bills will be able to be paid for as well.

Yeah, great plan. Chances are that we will have many more people unisured (and fined) than we did prior to ACA as the choice comes down to medical benefits versus a roof over your families head and those that don't still won't.