Harlequin Breedings

[ruthcatrin]

Ruth are you going to help pay the rest for Magnum? Why are you "less than thrilled?" Its DONE....she should be able to enjoy her dog without justifying her reasons.

Not asking her to justify, and to be fair its not that "she's getting him" thats the real problem, its that the breeding occurred at all and that although she'd given no details that I've seen its entirely possible its an otherwise "reputable" breeder......

 

[ruthcatrin]

I have to add that even if folks like Kris didn't buy the pups from these litters it wouldn't stop the breeders from doing it, a fair number would just cull any "defective" pups that they couldn't place.

 

[Duetsche_Doggen]

Thanks, DD. Yeah, people really do like to mind business that isn't theirs but I am a waste of their time because there is only one person that I HAVE to go to bed with everynight and wake up to every morning and that is me. I can look myself in the face and like what I see ......I do what I think is right and that is just the way it is.

Training is definitely something I have been thinking about considering I have never owned a GD. I am not sure how different they are in terms of "learning" than say the APBT or the EM. Maybe they are somewhere in the middle and it won't be as difficult as I think! LOL

I will be totally lost in the event the little man is deaf or blind......OH MY! I will be pulling some serious late night google/youtube sessions if that happens!

As with the Fila welcome to the Great Dane world, :lol: Plenty of drama and politics to spare.

For training the GD they are no different than any other dog, some have faster learning than others. Mason completely blows Stone out of the water in regards to training, this guy processes info like you wouldn't believe. So he's my "Mini Thor" lol

Gotta love google, yeap if you need any help let me know. I will see what I can track for you.

Oh BTW if you have any curiosity about whether Magnum deaf you can have a BAER done.

 

[Rugers-Kris]

I am defnitely new to Danes so I am have just learned of the health risks, too and the fact that I am not someone that ever wants to breed or show, it definitely pisses me off that people would do such a think knowing the what the results may be. It is irresponsible and hurtful to the puppies. BUT I have issues with a lot of big "breeders" and the bullshit and callousness that comes with breeding for showing. To better the breed is what you here all of the time but in my opinion that is rarely the cae. Prestige, money, etc. is the reasons with a larg part of breeders.

Anyway, I disagree with anyone who is breeding dogs with knowledge of the pain or problems it may cause to th epuppies BUT my little Magnum, the black hearted is already here. He needs a home like any other pup that is born and somehow his little "possibly all genetically fucked up" puppy self has won me over so......I am hoping for the best, aware of the worst and ready to tackle it and in the midst of it all I am still very excited to bring him home and watch him grow.

Well, I totally believe you'll give him an awesome home with the best care, so thats not the problem.

Deliberate Harl x Harl breeding pisses me off. Its humans deliberetly picking a breeding that they KNOW is going to result in screwed up dogs, so that they can get the pretty pattern that "everyone wants". One of the links DD gave has a chart breaking down the chances of actual lethal mutation, vs mutation that the dog can survive, vs health dogs but without the wanted pattern, vs healthy dogs with the wanted pattern from a Harl x Harl breeding and the chances of a healthy dog with the wanted pattern is less than 50% if I recall right (I want to say less than 30% but I'm not looking at the link right now).

 

[Rugers-Kris]

I was just reading about the BAER last night. In the event that I am not absolutely sure that he CAn hear, I will have one of these done. I am so glad to hear that Mason is doing so well. Yeah, the drama and politics are somehting else but as a rule, I ignore it.

As with the Fila welcome to the Great Dane world, :lol: Plenty of drama and politics to spare.

For training the GD they are no different than any other dog, some have faster learning than others. Mason completely blows Stone out of the water in regards to training, this guy processes info like you wouldn't believe. So he's my "Mini Thor" lol

Gotta love google, yeap if you need any help let me know. I will see what I can track for you.

Oh BTW if you have any curiosity about whether Magnum deaf you can have a BAER done.

 

[Duetsche_Doggen]

Not asking her to justify, and to be fair its not that "she's getting him" thats the real problem, its that the breeding occurred at all and that although she'd given no details that I've seen its entirely possible its an otherwise "reputable" breeder......

Well as you know it happens, and its NOT just "bybs" Even "reptuable" breeders do Harl x Harl breedings. Check back in some of the championships and see how many dogs were Harl x Harl. There are even breeders who do Merle x Harl which IMO is a "dead litter."

Well, I totally believe you'll give him an awesome home with the best care, so thats not the problem.

Deliberate Harl x Harl breeding pisses me off. Its humans deliberetly picking a breeding that they KNOW is going to result in screwed up dogs, so that they can get the pretty pattern that "everyone wants". One of the links DD gave has a chart breaking down the chances of actual lethal mutation, vs mutation that the dog can survive, vs health dogs but without the wanted pattern, vs healthy dogs with the wanted pattern from a Harl x Harl breeding and the chances of a healthy dog with the wanted pattern is less than 50% if I recall right (I want to say less than 30% but I'm not looking at the link right now).

Yeah I didn't go into the percentages that much because the numbers seem to vary, lol. One would state 25% others 33% up to %50. But I still find the point of the breeding wrong.

I have to add that even if folks like Kris didn't buy the pups from these litters it wouldn't stop the breeders from doing it, a fair number would just cull any "defective" pups that they couldn't place.

Exactly. How many times have we told people what to look for in a "reptuable" breeder? Yet they still choose a "byb" puppy. The only thing we can do is give them the tools its up to them whether they use it. Its such a regular thing on the dane forums, and 90% of the time they end up running new people off. Which pretty much defeated the purpose of trying to reduce the chances of that person buying from a "byb" again. It pisses me off immensly but what the "committee" says goes.......

 

[Duetsche_Doggen]

I was just reading about the BAER last night. In the event that I am not absolutely sure that he CAn hear, I will have one of these done. I am so glad to hear that Mason is doing so well. Yeah, the drama and politics are somehting else but as a rule, I ignore it.

Ok, yeap not necessary but something to think about if case you wanted to know out of curiosity.

Same here.....I just lurk with the rest of the countless others.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Well as you know it happens, and its NOT just "bybs" Even "reptuable" breeders do Harl x Harl breedings. Check back in some of the championships and see how many dogs were Harl x Harl. There are even breeders who do Merle x Harl which IMO is a "dead litter."
........
Exactly. How many times have we told people what to look for in a "reptuable" breeder? Yet they still choose a "byb" puppy. The only thing we can do is give them the tools its up to them whether they use it. Its such a regular thing on the dane forums, and 90% of the time they end up running new people off. Which pretty much defeated the purpose of trying to reduce the chances of that person buying from a "byb" again. It pisses me off immensly but what the "committee" says goes.......

I know, pisses me off lol. And yah, seen it too.

 

[Duetsche_Doggen]

Maybe I should cross over to the TM side Seems like less BS

 

[ruthcatrin]

I wish! Trust me its at least as bad if not worse, at least here in the states. Though at least (for the moment anyway) we don't have any color sets with quite so lethal problems, though I'm sure someone somewhere is breeding dilute to dilute......

 

[Duetsche_Doggen]

Guess they have to find a new trend.......

 

[kbuchanan66]

Thanks, DD. This is very interesting reading. I have read the majority already since I have decided to bring Magnum home and he is a result of this type of breeding. He is still too little yet to know if there are any effects but shortly he will have his eyes open and we should be able to know if there is any visual damage and whether or not he can see. Also, once he gets to moving around, we will be able to see if he can hear as well. Of course, I am hoping for the best but.......He is mine now so we will deal with whatever may come. Depending, of course.

Thank you for sharing. I have caught quite a bit of slack since I made this decision. First, I didn't do the breeding but the end result is that I don't give a damn what anyone else may think of my getting Magnum. I have been told that I must be supporting a backyard breeder and I am wrong for that....I have been told that by showing interest in my little black hearted Magnum, I am supporting breeders to do the harlXharl breeding. You would be amazed at some of the things I have heard. The bottom line is that my decisions are my decisions and I am not one of the "sheep". I do what I feel good about.

LOL. Sorry about getting on my soap box. I do appreciate you sharing the information.

I understand the "supporting BYB(if that is what this breeder is) but the way I see it...better this little pup goes to a home that WILL do what ever in their power to help this dog through out it's life than be given to anyone that will take him and than destroyed in the future because they "didn't realise how difficult, expensive and time consuming a handicap dog could be".

 

[Rugers-Kris]

Thanks,kbuch. I agree. In this world there are a lot of things that should be done differently and some breeders might even cull this little guy. OR they may give him away, like you talked about and he may end up blind, dead and scared in someones backyard on chain. There is a chance he will be perfectly fine, he may be horribly disabled and then again he may have a few minor things going on......The only way that I will not get him is if he is so "disabled" or sick that he can't have any quality of life. As it is, he is a chunk of healthy puppy and I will know more as he grows, opens his eyes and finally begins to move around on his own. The breeder was completely honest with me and even told me about the HarlXHarl breedings and believes with their experience, it was done as safely as possible. Whether I agree with that ot not doesn't change the fact that someone this adorable little guy has found a way to win me over. Also, the breeder said that I am not bound to take him. I will be getting him, though.

 

[kbuchanan66]

Thanks,kbuch. I agree. In this world there are a lot of things that should be done differently and some breeders might even cull this little guy. OR they may give him away, like you talked about and he may end up blind, dead and scared in someones backyard on chain. There is a chance he will be perfectly fine, he may be horribly disabled and then again he may have a few minor things going on......The only way that I will not get him is if he is so "disabled" or sick that he can't have any quality of life. As it is, he is a chunk of healthy puppy and I will know more as he grows, opens his eyes and finally begins to move around on his own. The breeder was completely honest with me and even told me about the HarlXHarl breedings and believes with their experience, it was done as safely as possible. Whether I agree with that ot not doesn't change the fact that someone this adorable little guy has found a way to win me over. Also, the breeder said that I am not bound to take him. I will be getting him, though.

I have seen blind dogs (from birth) do completely well like a normal dog and I have also seen deaf dogs(from birth) do completely well. I have never seen Deaf and blind(from birth) but I believe it is rare to be both... from my experience.

 

[Dakota Kid]

My in-laws got a puppy, Roxy, a few months after we got Dakota. Roxy's litter mates are quite the rainbow of pups, with Roxy being one of the brindle. I know one "grandma" of the pups is harlequin (no pics). Dam is Fawn, Sire is brindle. They has at least two fawn w/ black masks, 2-3 brindle, 2 fawn Merle-like(fawn that had spots) and one brindle harlequin. The brindle harlequin is very unique looking however had some mental problems. The breeder kept her and was going to spay her as soon as she could. Pics to show the littter to come.

 

[Dakota Kid]

Pics:
Mom and Roxy

Big Daddy with a big tongue


4 of the pups outside. Fawn w/ black mask, fawn with darker fawn spots, Roxy the brindle and a brindle harlequin.


Three of the pups - Fawn, Fawn with spots, brindle

Brindle and fawn harlequin (if you'd call it that?)

 

[Rugers-Kris]

What a beautiful litter of pups!! Sorry to hear about the little sick one.

 

[DennasMom]

I'd say little Magnum could not find a better home to go to than yours, Kris!

You're well-informed and ready, willing and able to deal with any issues that arise. Couldn't ask for more.
As said above - he's here already, and needs a home, and "you can't help who you fall in love with." (love that line!)

I'd bet Ruger would be willing to act as seeing-eye-dog (or ear-dog), if needed, too.

Can't wait to see more pics!

 

[mountainfila]

Pics:
Mom and Roxy
View attachment 26202
Big Daddy with a big tongue
View attachment 26203

4 of the pups outside. Fawn w/ black mask, fawn with darker fawn spots, Roxy the brindle and a brindle harlequin.
View attachment 26204

Three of the pups - Fawn, Fawn with spots, brindle
View attachment 26205
Brindle and fawn harlequin (if you'd call it that?)
View attachment 26206

I can say i have never seen or even heard of the fawn merle,the pic of the three nursing, kind of interesting color, looks kind of cheetah looking with the spots on the head

 

[NeSaxena]

Maybe I should cross over to the TM side Seems like less BS

OR come to India and lose your mind completely... :lolbangtable: