Great Dane - dog aggression

[Glasgowdogtrainer]

A short video of some footage of the first session working with Draco, adolescent great Dane with dog aggression. No corrections used, just environmental control, classical conditioning and positive reinforcement. It can be done.

Drako - Great Dane - Dog Reactivity - YouTube

 

[Hector]

Awesome.

 

[DDSK]

Good boy Draco

 

[season]

Great job!

 

[season]

Using the clicker is similar to using a "tcsh" sound to snap a dog out of what they're focused on and putting their focus back on to the handler...then rewarded with a treat. That is great right there....but I call the clicker sound or a sound u use with your mouth a form of correction. And a great one at that. Salute!

 

[season]

I see you tried to PM me...I had to empty my mailbox so it's open now.

Been watching more vids...keep it up.

 

[Boxergirl]

I don't consider a clicker correction at all. If it's being used as such, then it's being done incorrectly. It's a marker. You click to mark the desired behavior. I don't use a clicker for everything, but I do find it very useful for some dogs and some behaviors I'm working on. I prefer the clicker over other markers for certain things because it's the same all the time, every time. It's also easier to mark at exactly the right time - which is imperative for marking the exact behavior you are trying to train. I think clicker training is one of the most misunderstood training techniques around, and that's too bad because its consistency makes it a really great tool.

Love the video, btw. Thank you for posting.

 

[Glasgowdogtrainer]

Season, it's not a correction, not in any way, shape or form. it's predicts good things (conditioned reinforcer) rather than the Cesar Milan "tsst" which predicts a kick in the ribs, a jab in the neck or a leash correction (i.e. a conditioner punisher). Dogs trained with a clicker look forward to the clicker sound and actively move their bodies in order to make it happen. Dogs who have been trained with the "tsst" actively seek to avoid the sound and dread when it does.

The clicker as demo'd in the video, is also not to "snap the dog out of it", it's used to mark and reinforce desired behaviour. As you can see later i the video, Drako is looking away when the clicker sounds, we are not using it (ever) to get his attention.

Thanks everyone.

 

[Boxergirl]

Glasgowdogtrainer, that was a really good explanation.

I should take a video of my boxer, Al, when I get his clicker out. He loves it and looks forward to learning new things. Not because he gets a treat after a click either. The reward for him is figuring out exactly what I want him to do and my praise when he gets it. The first major thing we shaped using a clicker was a roll over. And it did have to be shaped. When he got it he raced joyfully around the house because he *knew* he got it right. It was hysterical. Al is a very high energy dog and clicker work wears him out more than racing around the yard. It's brain work for him.

 

[Glasgowdogtrainer]

Lovely

 

[karennj]

I love this! This is what I am doing with Bear to break him of barking and getting all worked up when a child is picked up. He was awful and some of the suggestions were to put a prong on him and correct when he goes to get up/bark, spray him with water, body block him backwards until he submits and moves away, use an ecollar to correct him, etc. I decided to go this route instead because I wanted to change the way he felt about kids being picked up and not just get him to submit to avoid correction. Yes, this method takes longer usually and requires more work from the handler but in the end your dealing with the core issue, the dogs perception of the situation. Now when I pick up my son Bear immediately sits and looks at me waiting for his praise and hopefully a nice treat for being such a good boy. Sometimes he gets one, sometimes he just gets a pat on the head. I want to do therapy visits with him so it is very important children being picked up is a good thing (treats) not a bad thing (correction).

 

[Kelly]

Thank you for posting that video/ I've tried clicker training a couple of times but I don't really get it. I think maybe im rushing the conditioning too much.

 

[PrinceLorde13]

I think you're getting a little too semantic with season. This looks more like operant conditioning to me. If you were solely training that the clicker means a treat is coming that would be classical, however adding the additional stimulus of another dog and using the clicker when he begins a behaviour that is not desired, I.e pulling or staring at the other dog it becomes more operant, and each time he begins to do something undesired and you click it is absolutely a form of correction with the end goal being a full behavior modification where he eventually no longer does the unwanted behaviors. That being said looks like it's working good, good job!

 

[PrinceLorde13]

Also why wouldn't it be the exact same thing as Caesar does, like season said, seems like it's just the difference between positive and negative reinforcement to me

 

[Boxergirl]

That's not how clicker training works. You don't click when he begins to do something undesirable. You click when he does something desirable. He's learning that looking at that other dog gets him a click. Looking at the dog and reacting/lunging/growling does not get a click or a treat. He's learning that the presence of other dogs means good things happen.

 

[Smokeycat]

It definitely looks like it worked although I'm not sure he was reacting to the clicker or how well trained she was to put her hand into the treat bag after each click. Lol. One thing I was taught was to have the treats in my hand already so that the click was the marker not my hand moving, as Boxergirl mentioned, timing is everything.
Also I think that not all corrections are negative, some can be neutral. I use a vocalization that breaks their focus but they must figure out why I said it and choose what they think the correct choice is. Granted this only works after they have already been taught what is appropriate and what is not allowed. It also depends on the individual dog too. With Kryten the lack of direction seems to overwhelm him and he just gets confused and lost until given the desired command. The poor boy is definitely not amongst the canine Mensa candidates. With Jiggers you can see the wheels turning and then the burst of joy he gains when he makes his decision, either to do what I want or that the consequences will be worth it when he does what he shouldn't. Even though some people would say he isn't well trained due to that allowance to make his own decisions I also know that when I need him under control he is without complaint.

 

[DennasMom]

That's not how clicker training works. You don't click when he begins to do something undesirable. You click when he does something desirable. He's learning that looking at that other dog gets him a click. Looking at the dog and reacting/lunging/growling does not get a click or a treat. He's learning that the presence of other dogs means good things happen.

And the video shows how powerful that little click can be!

Great video!
...and a beautiful dog!

 

[Glasgowdogtrainer]

Smokeycat, as long as the movement to the treat bag happens after the click, then everything is ok. If we train with treats in our hand, there is a risk, and it very often happens, that the dog only does the behaviour if we have the treat in our hand. The "treat in hand" has become an integral part of the cue for the behaviour, which we don't want. If I'm training my dog an new behaviour, often I'll have the treat bag a few paces away, clcik the correct behaviour then immediately go and get the treat. It cleans the cue-behaviour sequence. Kay Laurence has some really nice stuff on this.

Princelord - there is a world of difference between this approach and what Cesar does, in fact they are polar opposites. We might achieve the same result, as far as the dog's behaviour appears, but it's how we go about it which is important to me. I can teach you to willingly lie don on the floor or I can punch you in the temple to get there. Same result, two completely different methods and attitudes, especially if you''re the one who is doing the lying down.

Just to clear up also, the terms positive and negative reinforcement are scientific terms with very specific meanings. Positive reinforcement is adding something after the behaviour ossurs to increase behaviour, negative reinforcement is removing something after behaviour occurs to increase that behaviour. The use of corrections as commonly applied is called positive punishment - adding something after behaviour occurs to reduce that behaviour.

It may feel like semantics in this and the previous post addressing Season, but it's really not. I don't mean to be arrogant at all when I say that, but the science surrounding this isn't just important, it's essential.

 

[PrinceLorde13]

Yes sorry been a while since I've been in school and mixed up negative reinforcement with punishment, that was my bad. But since it's so essential I'm glad I could clear up that this example isn't classical conditioning.

 

[season]

Season, it's not a correction, not in any way, shape or form. it's predicts good things (conditioned reinforcer) rather than the Cesar Milan "tsst" which predicts a kick in the ribs, a jab in the neck or a leash correction (i.e. a conditioner punisher). Dogs trained with a clicker look forward to the clicker sound and actively move their bodies in order to make it happen. Dogs who have been trained with the "tsst" actively seek to avoid the sound and dread when it does.

The clicker as demo'd in the video, is also not to "snap the dog out of it", it's used to mark and reinforce desired behaviour. As you can see later i the video, Drako is looking away when the clicker sounds, we are not using it (ever) to get his attention.

Thanks everyone.

Kick in the ribs, jab in the neck? Hs....ok, whatever you want to call it I guess...for me it's used the exact same way you use the clicker....no kicks or jabs. My dog does just fine without the clicker and the sound I make. He doesn't cower in the corner...he doesn't piss himself. I know you are good at what you do and I know you think the word "correction" is bottom of the barrel. That's cool...I respect your work and dedication. I'm not against clickers, just never needed to use one.

And you can color the clicker any color you want but when I watch the video I see a dog that is looking at whatever, clicker is used, dog turns it's attention to the owner, owner gives treat. Not rocket science. In my world, If I'm working with Solo outside or on a walk or whatever and his attention gets locked on a potential trigger I use my sound, Solo changes his focus back onto me, I praise, we keep it moving. No kicks in the ribs, or jabs in the throat. I call it a correction. You can call it whatever you want. That's cool....but in the end the way I use it is no different than the clicker.