Big Year for Cane Corso...Cane Corsi @ Westminster!!!!

[Cody]

Eddie look and see
I will not name names on this forum, I am sure they will come up on a lot of others.
Is rather apparent who has the retracted nose, round head and more severe bite.
The Boxer wasn't just added in the recovery of the breed, it as well as the Bull Mastiff were added for other reasons as well, such as the hypertype in Europe wins
It has gotten to the point that some actually believe that is what a Corso should be.
However with the re emergence of Indiveri in Italy and others speaking out hopefully that will come to an end.

 

[Casa del Sol]

hummmmm, i see.....so are you saying retracted nose = hypertype?????
yeah the wins in europe and italy are all over the place, as such is the case here in the u.s as well.
good to see that there are those raising concern about it in italy.
it will be interesting to see what happens in the next 5-10 years.
yup, and i know all about boxers, bullmastiffs, hounds, sheppards, mixed farm dogs, and straight mastinos that were used, it's no secret...hahahhaa

 

[Cody]

Lol, are you saying retracted nose is not hypertype??????
It is great to see that that is happening in Italy.
And yes, there aren't very many secrets in the Corso world

 

[Casa del Sol]

Cody...you are the one that is referring to retracted nose as being hypetype....
LOL, now your asking me......No, a retracted nose doesn't necessarily mean the dog is hypertyped....
There is a lot more to it that just that....the eyes, the bite, the jaw, the head, etc......

Just because the nose is retracted doesn't mean the bite is incorrect, this is why you open the mouth and check the bite.
A slightly retracted nose can give the appearance of a severely undershot bite, but when you open the mouth you see otherwise.
I saw dogs both overseas and here in the u.s. where they may have had a slightly or straight up retracted nose,
but had a level bite, and some even a reverse scissor bite.
So you see, a lot more to it, than just the appearance of a retracted bite.

Now there are many cases and examples where a retracted nose has been paired with a severely undershot bite, and that is just a no go...lol
Now you and I both know the standard calls for basically a 90 degree for the nose to the mouth......

AKC - Nose: Large with well-opened nostrils, pigment color to match pigment color of the dog. Dogs with black pigment have black noses; gray pigmented dogs have gray noses; pigmentation is complete. The nose is an extension of the topline of the muzzle and does not protrude beyond nor recede behind the front plane of the muzzle.

FCI - Nose: Black and large with ample, open nostrils, on the same line as the nasal bridge.

What I am saying is, that just because the dog has a retracted nose that does not make it hypertype. On the other hand, a retracted nose is not "correct" by breed standards.......the dog you are referring to as hypertype, have you seen in person or just pics? I've only seen pics of the dogs in the shows, so not much to go off there. But, from your post, you are inferring that any dog with a retracted nose is hypertype. Just trying to clear that up, and if that is what you think, then that is your opinion.

 

[Cody]

Sorry for the delay in my reply Eddie, Aurora pet therapy tonight.
I believe if you look at what I wrote, I said; "retracted nose, round head and more severe bite."
So I do believe that you may have misread what I said It was not the nose alone, but the round eyes, the incorrect eye set, the muzzle, the severe undershot, the parallel planes of the skull and the lack of length in the loin. Not to mention the poor angulation and horrible limp that I have seen on video and heard about from multiple sources that were at the show. So no, not just the retracted nose alone I wasn't going to go into detail, but if you want me too...
Have I seen that one dog in person, no you are right I have not, have you?
The majority of the Corso at Westminster however, yes I have seen in person, as well as many other Corso from different lines and kennels. I have yet to see a dog with a retracted nose and a level bite. I am quite interested in seeing this, what dogs, may I ask, have you seen that are "straight up" retracted and level?
If you don't want to answer on this forum I understand, but you have my e-mail address, I am very interested in knowing.

 

[Casa del Sol]

Ahhhh, how is Aurora? Any recent pics?

As for the hypertype stuff....No I did not misread. I read what you posted and I simply asked - "are you saying retracted nose = hypertype?"
You responded with - "are you saying retracted nose is not hypertype?"
This is why I responded with the quotes from the standards, and the emphasis on hypertype being more than just a retracted nose.

As for opinions of people at the show.....well they all had elbows too, and their opinions were just multiplied by those. I talked to quiet a few people who were all there as well, and all had different opinions on the dogs there. It was sad to see some of those dogs there limping, not a good thing at all.

As for the dogs I mentioned I saw overseas, that was about 5+ years ago. Dogs that were with private owners, none from big name kennels, and this was before I knew to take pics of everything, so no, don't have pics to share with you on that, sorry. If I'm not mistaken though, I believe there was a discussion on this on the international forum regarding retracted noses and the different bites where some mentioned having reverse scissor bites or level bites with retracted noses. I could be mistaken though, I think that discussion was like 3-4 years ago.

 

[Cody]

Aurora is awesome! We are happy with how she coming along, at 18 months she still has a long way to go however
So far great expression, eye set, good convergence, her bone is awesome, her structure solid, and most importantly her temperament is beyond compare.
She is aloof with strangers, will accept attention when I tell her to, is fantastic at her therapy job because she does not seek out attention from the seniors, but will accept it if they want. She is calm, collected and alert. Has already passed her CGN, Therapy tests, is starting in Rally and showing CKC confirmation. All in all a well bred Corso. There are recent pictures of her on this forum. And how are Luz and Santana? Do you have Elly Mae with you?
Now, the reason I said you must have misread what I wrote is I never said retracted nose alone. I said, again, "retracted nose, round head and more severe bite", so where you are getting that I said retracted nose alone is confusing me.
If you are referring to the conversation started by Jojo on Hypertype, it is 20 pages long and I will indeed review it, from memory it was about shorter muzzles, but will be a good read again.
The one thing I am confused by Eddie, is you post a lot about "true type" and pictures of the old dogs, and what you want to see happen in the Corso yet anytime the word hypertype comes up you are all over defending them. What is it you are wanting for the future of the Corso Eddie? You seem to be going in polar opposite directions.

 

[Casa del Sol]

She sounds like a perfect corso, any faults?
Luz and Santana are great. They are enjoying the recent travels across the southwest U.S.
They are currently at my sisters house in Texas while we close on our new house in Colorado.
As for Elly, no she is not with me. She is in California with a good friend of mine.

Cody, please tell me where I defend hyperype? I have never defended hypertype, ever. I have never stated that hypertype is the way to go, and anyone in the CC world that knows me, knows I do not prefer hypertype.....If you somehow read it as me defending hypertype, then I am sorry to have confused you. How am I going in polar opposites? I haven't bred anything....

If you are referring to my dogs. I will be the first to say that Santana is not my ideal male, but I know what he has and what he doesn't. I am aware of his faults, and have an idea of what direction to go with him, should I ever decide to use him. Which are reasons why I have not bred him to Luz as many people wanted me to. His working drive alone is a plus though......As for Luz, again, she is not perfect, but I am very aware of her faults. I would love to see her with just a tad bit more bone, a little tighter around the face, tighter eyes, and a better tail set.....I love both of their temps, and awesome working drive. Just wish I had more time to train with a working club. Will be looking into a local one as soon as we get settled in the new home. Both Luz and Santana have tight reverse scissor bites, and neither one of them are retracted in the nose. Santana a bit round in the eyes and head. Now for Elly, she was brought in for a reason, her working drive.....yes, she is not a huge female, but we know what is behind her, and we know what direction we want to go with anything that is produced from her. Just as the old Italian farmers of the South had different CC for different "jobs", so do I....LOL...but there is a plan to bring it all together way down the line. As you know that takes years of planning.

As for what I want in the future, well you will see in a few years when I have a generation or 2 under my belt. Until then, I will continue to study them, study lines, crosses, outcomes, etc.....Hope I answered your questions or at least cleared it up a little. If you have any other questions feel free to email me. I think we pretty much hijacked this thread.

 

[Cody]

Well, Eddie it just has seemed as soon as the word hypertype was used the "crew" jumped to action, hackles up.
Am wondering why such a response, here as well as facebook

As for dogs, no I wasn't referring to your dogs at all Eddie, I do not believe it was personal until you brought Aurora in. Does she have her faults? Absolutely she does, but as she is only 18 months, I will not start picking her apart until she is finished her developing. That said Eddie, when you look at her there is no mistaking her breed, she is very much a Corso.
I am very aware of my dog Eddie, however so far we are more then happy with how she is progressing. As far as plans with her, that would have to be discussed with her breeder.
What I meant by polar opposites Eddie, is you talk about the "rustic" Corso, the old dogs, yet when a dog is obviously hypertype, like in the show you jump in to defend it, declare it not. Try to pick apart what I am saying and turn the conversation from a dog to personal off handed attacks and remarks, passive aggressive, I believe is the term. I have gotten and understood all of the slights on both me and my dog Eddie
If you have an issue with her or me Eddie, please tell me what they are, get them out in the open.

Here is a side profile of Aurora, it is from a few months ago, but her head is just getting better IMO.

 

[Casa del Sol]

The crew huh....LOL....wow

How did I make it personal with Aurora. I just asked how she was, you went on to describe her. ?????? Not sure how I made anything personal, but ok. Unless me asking about her faults was attacking, but I don't see it that way. It's just an honest question, maybe because when I talk about my dogs, I talk about both the good and bad of it, I know not many people like to do that, but it is what it is.

So I defended hypertype????? wow, ok...if that is how you feel. I can only laugh at it. I never defended the dog. I congratulated the owner for the win. And there is more to that congratulations, than just the dog. That is the show world for you, which is why I made those comments. It's always a dog won that shouldn't have, and one that didn't win that should have, etc, etc, etc. Personally I don't put much weight on show wins, I could care less about them.....Ahhhhh the corso world, never seems to amaze me. I'm still laughing at the "crew" quote. I'm not even gonna get into that one. I don't see where I attacked you or your dog at all. I said nothing of the sorts, please stop reading so much into the text.

 

[Cody]

Oh Eddie, playing stupid doesn't suit you. You know as well as I what I am talking about, so I will let that one slide.
We both are aware of how the Corso community works, under handed comments insults made to look innocent... I don't feel like playing with you here. I have been on this forum for a while now to avoid the BS and be able to speak my mind.
All I said is that there was one dog at the show who was Hypertype in my opinion. I never said which dog, I never said anything about who owned the dog, how it placed, or if it placed at the show. You are making an assumption about what dog I was talking about based on???

I believe I was actually one of the first on this thread to congratulate the breeders on both wins.
I never said anything about dogs winning or should not have won, that is you.
If you read back I was speaking to someone else about the boxer type Corso Eddie, and the history of it in our breed.
Yes, the "crew" Eddie, some like to travel in packs is much easier.
Oh and BTW Dei Guardiani or Oscar, you really should introduce yourself

 

[Casa del Sol]

Now, I'm playing stupid.....damn Cody....what is your problem. And let what slide? Don't do me any favors, please.
Playing with me??? Ok, Cody, YOU are the one that took everything out of context.

I simply came in here to explain hypertype a litte bit better, I saw some had questions about it. I even said we were both saying the same thing about hypertype in different words, yet you continue to say I am defending hypertype, attacking you, making things personal for asking how your dog was, and saying I am making under handed comments. Trust me, I don't underhand, if I had something to say to you, I would. I have nothing to hide, I make my comments, I stand by them, and don't shy away.

For whatever reason you are taking it personal, and trying to make something out of nothing, but I am sure all those who read this can see that.
As for the dog you are speaking of....I never made an assumption on anything.....I haven't mentioned once a dog name or owner in regards to the one you were calling hypertype. I never pinned anything on you saying you said this or that about a particular dog. You decided to bring in comments I made on FB. I know very well what comments I made on FB, and on what dogs, so it doesn't take a bright mo fo, to figure out who you are talking about in regards to your claims of me defending hypertype. Get it right, get it straight, and get your comments figured out, because you are mixing everything up.

And this whole "crew" thing is ridiculous, what is this high school????? And nice "under handed" call out with the whole "crews" thing and Oscar introduce yourself comment, come on....childish...real childish. enough said. Your comments speak for themselves Cody. And for someone who likes to avoid the BS, you sure do like to continue to insinuate that there is a lot more happening than there really is. Wow, I'm done. Thanks though.

 

[Cody]

Whatever Eddie.
Your first post on the thread was to congratulated the winners and to ask me "who was the hypertype dog Cody" that is not to explain better. Every post you have added to this thread has been directed at me. Not to educate us all on the origins of hypertype and the Boxer in the breed.
I am not your Facebook friend I wasn't talking about what you said, I have no idea what you said to who. We are in different circles.
The comments I am referring to were made by others, your friends, in regards to me and this thread. Nothing to do with any dogs at all.
So Oscar did not join the forum yesterday? When we started this? He hasn't been reading along and you 2 discussing the thread? Nor have you with Mary either huh? No, no highschool. I am here, I am using my name, I am just saying what I see.
And yes you did make an assumption;
" I never defended the dog. I congratulated the owner for the win. And there is more to that congratulations, than just the dog."
I never said who I was talking about. Nor have I posted anything anywhere, except here to say I was disappointed with the showing at Westminster. That it was unfortunate with the amount of CC there were limping, and one was hypertype IMO, maybe 2... The only dog I pointed out was Romulus, when someone asked. I said nothing about owners or winners.
No Eddie, I have not mixed up anything.
Maybe you need to reread the thread.
First you ask what dog
then you try to say that I said just a retracted nose is hypertype when I clearly did not, yet you insist and push it.
No, you have come after me since you joined in on this thread Eddie.
I do not expect you to admit it, but it is obvious.

---------- Post added at 01:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:01 AM ----------

And yes, I am done with it. If you want to continue you have my e-mail address but I am not subjecting everyone else on this forum to this drama anymore.

 

[Cody]

And yes, I am done with it. If you want to continue you have my e-mail address but I am not subjecting everyone else on this forum to this drama anymore.

 

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

[FONT=&quot]I have decided to delete my original post I will not add to the drama. I have not replied the the barbs or veiled insults and I will continue to not do so as they are beneath me. I hope that some people learn from the educational material in this post. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

 

[oneforall205]

Does anyone have any pics of what they are referring to as hypertype?

Eddie look and see
I will not name names on this forum, I am sure they will come up on a lot of others.
Is rather apparent who has the retracted nose, round head and more severe bite.
The Boxer wasn't just added in the recovery of the breed, it as well as the Bull Mastiff were added for other reasons as well, such as the hypertype in Europe wins
It has gotten to the point that some actually believe that is what a Corso should be.
However with the re emergence of Indiveri in Italy and others speaking out hopefully that will come to an end.