is there really 3 differe nt types boerboel ? pls help !?!?!?!?!?

[DMikeM]

Right now it would be acceptable at the SAB/SABT org, but the others will not register it or recognize the SAB registration. The other Registers say it would be called a "DOG" not a Boerboel. Also they would think that a black dog of unknown origin may have jumped the fence or one of the parents was not pure. So far all the old timers I have spoken too except one say "there were NO BLACK BOERBOELS!" One person whose father and grandfather were Boers says they had black dogs and someone slipped a few black ones into the US and bred with some Pedigree Boer Boels and that's where the mess begins. Pax would be known as an Ultra Brindle. If at the time of apprasial the "Black" dog had some brindle and was not pure black or even black with a white spot or chest it could be appraised as an Ultra Brindle and possibly pass for registration. WHEW! Clear as mud right?

 

[bullyhillmama]

crystal its just funny to me that a black "dog"can have all of the ideal features of the breed yet be an oucast... i thought that as a society we were past all that..lol. i was wondering because i have seen pittie pups start off black as onyx yet age to an ultra brindle as you called it, and my marleigh started off as a cinnamon colored brindle yet at the age of 10 she looks mottled rather than "striped". im still researching so that someday i can get my BB puppy.. or retired mama.. and im wondering what to look for. i would prefer solid temperament since my dogs are family first, the looks would be for my own benefit as i think they are beautiful, and the pedigree/registering would just be for curiosities sake.

 

[DMikeM]

Well if the black BB is a cross then realize it might not ever have the true temperment of the BB and the Hibryd Vigor that comes with that type of Landrace Breed. Watch out for blues and powders as well.

 

[BradA1878]

What is really silly is that the breed is a cross breed. It started as a cross breed and the working dogs are still crossed in Africa today. Its only city people who care about clubs and papers that define a "pure" BB.

 

[grazefull1]

Well if the black BB is a cross then realize it might not ever have the true temperment of the BB and the Hibryd Vigor that comes with that type of Landrace Breed. Watch out for blues and powders as well.

u mean there other colors to watch out for other than black ? do have pic of them ? wow this is interesting

 

[chuckorlando]

If a pair throws one black, and blacks considered a mutt, that should make the whole litter mutts. And at least one of the parent mutts. And any pups else where from that parent mutts. I dont get how you have more than one kind. If theres a known and factually proven history of the breed, what makes up the breed, and how they should look and act, every thing else is a mongrel. Or am I missing something?

 

[grazefull1]

If a pair throws one black, and blacks considered a mutt, that should make the whole litter mutts. And at least one of the parent mutts. And any pups else where from that parent mutts. I dont get how you have more than one kind. If theres a known and factually proven history of the breed, what makes up the breed, and how they should look and act, every thing else is a mongrel. Or am I missing something?

that would mean there's a whole lot of mutts out there, would that mean that whole generation is a throw away because many people would say no, and me not knowing anything about the breed would consider them the same but i wouldnt b the only one since i can only base them on looks(body,legs,head,movement,health) n not color

 

[DMikeM]

Actually Chuck it is very common for a breed to have litters with one or 2 pups that don't meet the standard for the breed, and it is not unheard of for a litter to come from more that one male dog. When that happens the dog is disqualified but the litter-mates could be accepted with no fault.

Brad, once the Boerboel was recognized as a breed the crossbreeding should have stopped. Therefore freezing the the crossbreeding process and removing the moniker Landrace Breed.

Grazefull1, I will try to find you some pictures. But one thing to look out for is nose leather that is not black.

Also regarding the crosses and the Ysterberg Mastiff. Even though they do not say they are a Boerboel dog I would guesstimate that well over 60% of today's Boerboel have Ysterberg lines in them.

 

[grazefull1]

Actually Chuck it is very common for a breed to have litters with one or 2 pups that don't meet the standard for the breed, and it is not unheard of for a litter to come from more that one male dog. When that happens the dog is disqualified but the litter-mates could be accepted with no fault.

Brad, once the Boerboel was recognized as a breed the crossbreeding should have stopped. Therefore freezing the the crossbreeding process and removing the moniker Landrace Breed.

Grazefull1, I will try to find you some pictures. But one thing to look out for is nose leather that is not black.

Also regarding the crosses and the Ysterberg Mastiff. Even though they do not say they are a Boerboel dog I would guesstimate that well over 60% of today's Boerboel have Ysterberg lines in them.

oh ok its starting to make sense now lol alittle lol

 

[bullyhillmama]

right, i agree Chuck and also Mike. if a puppy from a litter doesnt meet standard, like a lemon spotted dalmation (true story.. happens occasionally), then usually they will say its a dalmation, just not acceptable color. its not a mutt, nor is it a genetic anamoly, simply a natural manifestation of genes thats just not desirable. so i think its funny that they would call a black BB a mutt, even if its got the same parents and, other than color, meets all the expectations of the BB breed. i do understand that a litter can have mixed sires, BUT if the puppy displays all the typical physical traits, chances are its just a BB with an errant color gene. now, if it comes out looking like a mix or different breed, then well, yeah.. same litter, but a mutt lol

 

[bullyhillmama]

god help me, i want a black BB now with a red nose just to stick it to the man... i hate rules. hahahahaha!! i just hate the colorism among breeds... "a black *whatever*isnt really a *whatever*" they do it with the filas, too, dont they chuck? that would be like saying an albino lab is not really a lab. huh... although my redheaded daughter may just be part monkey so really who knows....

 

[chuckorlando]

Yes I own a black mongrel fila. The problem in the fila's is there is no indisputable facts. And to make matters worse, the very guy who wrote the no black's standard wrote the first standard to include blacks. So using cafib thought that blacks are mutts... If a Cafib litter throws one black that makes the whole littler trash. If there are no such thing as a black fila, and all blacks are mixed, theres no way a non mixed litter can throw a black. Now I suspect many would kill the black and pretend it did not happen, but the reality is the same.

Now my opinion would not follow that thinking in Fila's as I can see with my own eyes the typyness the blacks have. So lack of fact leaves it up to my opinion. The same may be true in the BB world. But if it's a fact there are no black BB's, it's not possible for a none mixed BB to throw a black.

I suspect there's lack of fact thus the diffrent types. Same with cafib and non cafib fila. Folks like myself who dont buy the "facts" opinions given by others, see them as a range of types. I feel in reality when breeds were created a farmer breed for what he needed. Types had to exist. But if you subscribe to the "facts" then there is a strct standard and all else is wrong

 

[DMikeM]

My take on the Black BB is during the quest of the founding fathers (SAB) to find the most elite of the SA Boerboels they decided that no black or blue BBs would be accepted. This does not mean that they did not exist, it just means because of certain genetic issues with health and skin and the population phobias regarding black dogs that they literally wrote , all these colors are excepted x, y, z EXCEPT Black. Later on SAB (founders) decided to accept black but not blue or Pie Bald with extreme amounts of white.
One of the highest scoring BBs is a black one I think from Spitsvuur Named Ramkat.
And this one which might be the same.

Here is a blog from the same kennel explaining his beliefs on the black BB.
The Black Boerboel - Spitsvuur Boerboele

Oh and Ramkats webpage. BTW I would love to have a Black BB if it was accepted by the orgs.
Ramkat 94.7%
http://spitsvuurboerboels.wordpress.com/breeding-males/spitsvuur-ramkat/

 

[DMikeM]

The Black one with the white chest is Janieka Swartkat. I think 90%.
Janieka Swartkat - Google Search

 

[chuckorlando]

He looks like a beast. So it's not a question of if there was blacks, they just decided they did not want to include them? Thats kinda dumb IMO. If blacks have what ever issues, let the owners chose if they want one or not.

 

[DMikeM]

Chuck I so agree, I would love to own one or a half dozen black BBs and maybe a Blue/Tiger brindle or 3. But I don't want a dog I have to fight over just yet. I have always liked black dogs and can't really understand why they were rejected. But right now the SABT accepts them. If the orgs all get absorbed by the new proposes 1 org (one ring to rule them all) we are wondering if the BBB will be rejected again or accepted? And there is now an open developmental registry where dogs that meet the standard can be introduced into the breed regardless of registration.

 

[bullyhillmama]

i think part of my fascination with BBs is the idea that the breed is still being developed, and chuck, since reading up on the fila, i feel the same about them. although i wouldnt really *want* a fila, since they dont really fit our lifestyle, the process fascinates me. so many commonly recognized breeds today are so "finalized" that there is no improvement unless to "fix" the problems that were already bred into the breed. the BB is still my ultimate "someday" dog, since they are pretty much everything i would want in a dog. i think that if a piebald or black BB can "do the job" both physically and in temperament, then by all means, it can live here.

 

[grazefull1]

http://alpinelionboerboels.com/AfricanMastinosBoersosBlackBoerboels.html

well this not only has black bb but he does crosses on top of that

 

[Janet Carr]

I grew up in the 60s with farm Boerboels. They were working dogs pure and simple - they worked day and night and any aggressive or weak specimens who could not do the job were immediately euthanized. And they were more or less all hound/terrier. I don't recognise the ones I grew up with in some of the large BBs today. And I never saw a black one growing up, though there are some utter stunners out there now (not BBs in my eyes though, sorry). For my BBs though I prefer Mastiff/Bulldogs. Here is Odi http://thisbugslife.com/2013/04/09/odi-the-boerboel/

One of the links in the original post was from my blog. I have a boerboel index here, with a list of all my BB posts
http://thisbugslife.com/2013/04/28/boerboel-index/

Here is an updated article about body types. The only one I could not find a picture of was Piona Rampai.
http://thisbugslife.com/2013/04/30/boerboel-different-body-types/

 

[grazefull1]

cool i think i posted i of your links janet