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Cafib 35th anniversary show

mx5055

mx5055

Well-Known Member
Can I ask a simple question? I will say right up front that all I know about Fila's is from reading what you all post. My question is: Do you all love your dogs and enjoy them? Because it seems to me that that is the biggest reason for owning a dog? You all spend so much time tearing down other peoples dogs, and defending your own...what is the purpose? It's quite evident that none of you are going to say anything to change each others minds regarding these dogs and what is correct....What is the point? Just love your dogs...choose them for the behaviors that YOU want...the COLORS you want, etc. What the heck difference does a piece of paper mean anyway (unless you are a breeder...and then even breeders disagree and breed for different traits). Personally I would love to see Fila threads with you all posting more pics of your dogs, and explaining why you like YOUR dog, thus letting us have more knowledge/the abilities to make our own decisions if we ever choose to own a Fila. Just my small comment; and sorry, I know it was more than one question. But, seriously, I would like to see pics of your dogs that YOU love and hear stories about them :)
 
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aceoutdoor

Well-Known Member
mx5055 said:
Can I ask a simple question? I will say right up front that all I know about Fila's is from reading what you all post. My question is: Do you all love your dogs and enjoy them? Because it seems to me that that is the biggest reason for owning a dog? You all spend so much time tearing down other peoples dogs, and defending your own...what is the purpose? It's quite evident that none of you are going to say anything to change each others minds regarding these dogs and what is correct....What is the point? Just love your dogs...choose them for the behaviors that YOU want...the COLORS you want, etc. What the heck difference does a piece of paper mean anyway (unless you are a breeder...and then even breeders disagree and breed for different traits). Personally I would love to see Fila threads with you all posting more pics of your dogs, and explaining why you like YOUR dog, thus letting us have more knowledge/the abilities to make our own decisions if we ever choose to own a Fila. Just my small comment; and sorry, I know it was more than one question. But, seriously, I would like to see pics of your dogs that YOU love and hear stories about them :)
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Now that got me right here(points to heart).



peace.jpg
 
chuckorlando

chuckorlando

Well-Known Member
Well mx I think most of us have threads with lots of pics of our dogs. And agree or not with the dog, I think all of us respect the others dog. If we consider it a fila or a mutt, we show the other respect. I know what Juan thinks of my dog and yet he has never disrespected me and I would never bash his dog. Because at the end of the day, we all love our dogs and we all think our dogs are at a min, good dogs.

That being said, this back and forth is inherent to the breed. It is a very real issue. And we all have very strong feelings about our position.

So if Dogman say's blacks are mixed and no one tries to correct him, then someone stumbles on the thread, they believe all blacks are mixed.

If I say cafibs are scrawny and Dogman say's nothing, a new person comes in, and they believe all cafibs are scrawny.

Fila threads die on their own. If one side voices an opinion the other side will counter. Untill the thread organically reaches a topic we all agree on, the thread dont die.

For pictures and stories of our dogs, you would need to read a thread about our dogs. I know I have many.
 
mx5055

mx5055

Well-Known Member
chuckorlando said:
Well mx I think most of us have threads with lots of pics of our dogs. And agree or not with the dog, I think all of us respect the others dog. If we consider it a fila or a mutt, we show the other respect. I know what Juan thinks of my dog and yet he has never disrespected me and I would never bash his dog. Because at the end of the day, we all love our dogs and we all think our dogs are at a min, good dogs.

That being said, this back and forth is inherent to the breed. It is a very real issue. And we all have very strong feelings about our position.

So if Dogman say's blacks are mixed and no one tries to correct him, then someone stumbles on the thread, they believe all blacks are mixed.

If I say cafibs are scrawny and Dogman say's nothing, a new person comes in, and they believe all cafibs are scrawny.

Fila threads die on their own. If one side voices an opinion the other side will counter. Untill the thread organically reaches a topic we all agree on, the thread dont die.

For pictures and stories of our dogs, you would need to read a thread about our dogs. I know I have many.
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Chuck, you can call me Cindy, or "dudette" lol. Believe it or not, I have read and enjoyed all the threads and pictures you have posted on Kona. I particularly enjoyed "the sandbox" one. I think Kona is absolutely gorgeous, and one of the things I really like/respect about you is that it is so obvious how much you are in love with/adore your dog, and what a huge part of your life she is. Unfortunately, those stories don't go on for 30 something pages, and don't stay at the top of the forum list...lol. I understand where you're coming from though, so I guess, carry on, and I'll get another bowl of popcorn!! :)
 
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slim12

Well-Known Member
Cafib vs. non-cafib can get fever pitched. I don't think it is a bashing of the dogs or a tearing down process. It is basically one person's opinon vs. anothers. Log onto a car/truck forum and the Chevy and Ford guys do the same thing. Is a Chevy any better than a Ford, depends on who you ask or what commercial you watch. Same with the dogs. It is not anything perosnal, mostly because I would not know any of these people if they walked thru my front door. I enjoy the back and forth banter and the exchanging of ideas. Personally, I believe inbreeding and line breeding is an invaluable tool. Most on here do not think the way I do. The board or the back and forth posts more than likely will not sway either.
I think at the end of the day people just love their dogs. Pretty simple at the end of the day. S
 
chuckorlando

chuckorlando

Well-Known Member
Ah you know drama sells. ahahhahahahaha. I to wish the threads with our dogs would carry on. But with out drama or need for debate, the conversations end to fast.

Fact is, theres few facts in here. Just alot of opinion passed on as fact. Thats both sides. If one could travel back 100yr you would find dogs of all shape and size. All color all ranges of temps. Someone some where called them a fila. Then someone picked what they liked and wrote a standard. Even that is just a dudes opinion. Facts can not be logically disputed. Until someone has facts, your subject to every ass holes opinion. I doubt there will ever be indisputable facts
 
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slim12

Well-Known Member
Chevy guy myself. Doing a frame-off/almost resto of a 1969 SWB fleetside 4X4 pickup. (Frame off is the cool way to say the other cab was so rusty there was no hope for repair. But it sounds way cooler to say frame off resto.
My issue with any working family of dogs is when they are no longer worked, bred for what someone thinks they should look like, and then chooses not to work the dog to prove their point. After years of line breeding and inbreeding and outcrossing (different topic altogether) all my beagles pretty much look the same. Will they make West Minster? More than likely not. Will they hunt, jump and run? Absolutely. So I say have beagles. The next guy may say not.
Filas are no different. One thing, (and maybe, just maybe) we can all agree on is that they originated as a working farm dog. Farm dogs had to perform many tasks as people could not afford to feed many dogs for single purposes. Whether or not a black dog was part of the original plan or not, who knows, if that mongrel got the job/jobs done he stayed on. If that perfect looking Fila according tot he standard came along but could not do a job. He gets knocked in the head. Farm life is tough.
So for me personally, and like Chuck said all of us have one with a certain anatomical body part, I prefer to see the Fila do something. Even if it is a trained job outside of the original farm type work. Like the prey drive of a herding German Shephard is the basis for do bite work/service work. The video of the Fila working the cows was awesome. Too many puppies and young dogs are passed over because of a look, but if raised and given the chance they could very well be the worker in the family. I like dogs that do things vs. dogs that stand a pose. At the same time, I understand my valuea and others are very different. S
 
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aceoutdoor

Well-Known Member
I think that’s how most of us feel Slim. The coat color, a slightly high ear set or being an inch taller than standard does not mean that dog is not a Fila. If you know Filas, you know a Fila. And I will taker an ugly Fila with great drive and strong temp over a show stopper who lacks working abilities anyday.


If Zebra bought a black dog with weak temp, if that’s the case, sorry to hear that. But if you think all or even the majority of Cafib dogs are confident strong temped dogs, its just not true. And if you think all the dogs in Brazil were Cafib type and the stronger, larger “Brazilian Mastiff†type are a new thing made in the USA, you are very wrong again.
 
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zebraworks

Well-Known Member
slim12 said:
When I first got into these dogs my first experience was from the CAFIB side of the fence. He considered everything in the General Disqualification section exactly that, a DQ. I have taught to several who do not see it that way. That was my reasoning. As far as the FCI/CBKC version if your dog shows aggression it is an "Eliminating Characteristic". So if the dog "acts like a Fila then it can't be considered one", several contradictions in both standards. That is why I could never choose between the two. Read either one and either standard can be shot to shit.
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what other "contradiction" do you notice in standards besides your mention of FCI/CBKC "shows aggression"?? It is real obvious only CAFIB has a system for evaluation of phenotype and temperament in place to enhance and protect the breed.
 
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slim12

Well-Known Member
Black mask. It is OK in the top half of the standard but in the bottom in the mixed breed section, Enlgish Mastiffs, it says a statement, ends with a period and then says Black mask. I will attribute this to possibly translation, as the languages can't be translated word for word. But that is a contradiction.
Secondly, the acute mouth angle. It falls under the disqualification title. Lots and lots of dogs carry this trait. It has been considered by most to be a direct link to the infusion of Neo in the Fila, thus a mogrel trait, thus a DQ. Like I said, lots and lots of dogs carry this trait, on both sides. It 'seems' that it is not a DQ anymore, it is considered a fault. S
 
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slim12

Well-Known Member
And my personal favorite. "CAFIB" will accept a black dog if the black dog does not portray signs of mixing, mongel is a popular statement. But that is simply not true because the color black is in the General Disqualification section. According to the standard the dog would be DQ'ed for his/her color. So a person who would take the time to look at the dog without factoring in the color would be in direct contradiction with the standard. I can't believe anyone can look at a dog and see the dog without seeing his/her color upon sight. So the standard becomes much more subjective if a participating member is allowed to deviate from one of the cut and dried sections. S
 
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slim12

Well-Known Member
Like I said in previous post if I were forced to choose between the two it would be CAFIB because of the approval process. I like anything that raises the bar for the group as well as the individual. If CBKC had a system that were identical to CAFIB minus the black dog dilemna, and then added some higher standard accomplishments (Like in the bulldog catch world there is WB I, II and III. Each step requires the dog to do more) I would sway back the other way. Like say there is a club formed, and the dogs must be video'ed for working ability, like the cattle video in this thread, then video'ed for conformation and appearance, submitted for review and approved from there. Like OFA and Pennhipp xraying. If that club were formed I would then be in their corner. If that rambling makes sense. S



zebraworks said:
what other "contradiction" do you notice in standards besides your mention of FCI/CBKC "shows aggression"?? It is real obvious only CAFIB has a system for evaluation of phenotype and temperament in place to enhance and protect the breed.
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Tiger12490

Tiger12490

Well-Known Member
My thing is I respect the view of the Cafib and there attempt at keeping the breed pure.....but instead of factual evidence and reasoning they light there torches and sharpen there pich forks in order to rid the world of the black mongrel (wich they cant prove hasnt existed) ... when they themselves have obvious mongrel dogs....just ridiculous to me TBH .....I have a mutt, if Athena is one too then so be it..... but there is never anything of substance that proves it....

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
 
chuckorlando

chuckorlando

Well-Known Member
Tiger12490 said:
My thing is I respect the view of the Cafib and there attempt at keeping the breed pure.....but instead of factual evidence and reasoning they light there torches and sharpen there pich forks in order to rid the world of the black mongrel (wich they cant prove hasnt existed) ... when they themselves have obvious mongrel dogs....just ridiculous to me TBH .....I have a mutt, if Athena is one too then so be it..... but there is never anything of substance that proves it....

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
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And there in lies the argument. It all come down to opinion. Iv'e said from day one that cafibs set up is great in theory. But some of it is just some folks opinion. And I really dont care about either standard. We can use extreme examples of bad dogs and I think we all agree they are bad dogs. When we see a fawn fila we can usually all agree if it looks like a fila. Good or bad. Of coarse barring all the extremes and obvious. We can all look at an extreme weak or nervy temp dog and all agree more or less it was not a fila temp. Barring extremes we can all look at a dog and agree, yes thats a fila temp. Be it soft or hard, it is a fila temp. I dont see the need to break out scales, tape measures, and angle finders to prove it aint a fila. It look like one and acts like one(again barring the extreme examples). I am not using black in this at all because thats a whole issue in and of it's self. But when you take the politics, personal issues, and bullshit out, filas look like filas. So I dont really care what the spec shit say's
 
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slim12

Well-Known Member
Well said Chuck. I agree. For the most part people are in agreement when it comes to good dogs and bad dogs. In temperament, working ability and appearance, I think we are all pretty close. Most of the issues are based on beliefs, not facts. None of us were there when the dogs were created. If Dr. Santos Cruz found what he was looking for in the black dogs and formed the standard in that light we would have one of those factions as well. I think words like "pure" and in turn "mongrel" put things in a bad light right off the bat and we find it hard to get back to a normal type conversation from there.
 
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