Cafib 35th anniversary show

[zebraworks]

I dont distinguish between cafib approved and cafib bread. If it's out of a cafib breeder it's a cafib dog.

well that is flat out wrong though. No dogs are automatically approved because their breeders are CAFIB approved kennels. Each dog is judged individually. So a person would have to know if the dog was in fact evaluated and what the actual result of the evaluation was. This is the single most important element to enhance the fila brasileiro and protect it (in addition to incorporating hip and elbow screening) that is why CAFIB was created to begin with.

If people want to factually criticize then they need actual FACTS to back up the criticism of the judge(s) evaluations/bias/integrity otherwise the allegations are bogus.

 

[chuckorlando]

If I call Juan and ask for a cafib dog, I'm buying a cafib dog, and that dog turns out to be shit, it's a shit cafib dog. You guys dont get a pass on shit dogs cause my cafib pup cant pass mustard. You might like to tell your selves that so you feel awesome, but that aint how the real world works.

It's nice to see cbkc gets blame for even cafibs shit

Thats like saying if one of your two kids cant play football, well we will blame him on the neighbor.

 

[slim12]

There is no approval process that I know of that approves a kennel as CAFIB. It is an individual test for each individual dog. I know it is just a play on words for me, but no one can buy a CAFIB approved puppy. One can buy a puppy from CAFIB approved parents, from a kennel that operates under the CAFIB standard but that particular puppy is no more CAFIB approved than his black littermate. (had to toss that in, LOL).
My opinon, is that one who operates on the CAFIB side of the fence should recognize their shortcomings with the same vigor they have for the opposite standard or the mixed/mongrel dog. The percentages of dogs approved by CAFIB are always small, and that is a good thing, because the bar is high(er). There are a lot of dogs from CAFIB approved parents that do not work out and when they are seen it is not the downfall to an organization. It can't be AHA! this is what CAFIB is all about. As shitty as it sounds, when a dog does not make it, does not work out, it is a good thing. It means there is a process in place for getting better. S

 

[Duetsche_Doggen]

Chevy guy myself. Doing a frame-off/almost resto of a 1969 SWB fleetside 4X4 pickup. (Frame off is the cool way to say the other cab was so rusty there was no hope for repair. But it sounds way cooler to say frame off resto.
My issue with any working family of dogs is when they are no longer worked, bred for what someone thinks they should look like, and then chooses not to work the dog to prove their point. After years of line breeding and inbreeding and outcrossing (different topic altogether) all my beagles pretty much look the same. Will they make West Minster? More than likely not. Will they hunt, jump and run? Absolutely. So I say have beagles. The next guy may say not.
Filas are no different. One thing, (and maybe, just maybe) we can all agree on is that they originated as a working farm dog. Farm dogs had to perform many tasks as people could not afford to feed many dogs for single purposes. Whether or not a black dog was part of the original plan or not, who knows, if that mongrel got the job/jobs done he stayed on. If that perfect looking Fila according tot he standard came along but could not do a job. He gets knocked in the head. Farm life is tough.
So for me personally, and like Chuck said all of us have one with a certain anatomical body part, I prefer to see the Fila do something. Even if it is a trained job outside of the original farm type work. Like the prey drive of a herding German Shephard is the basis for do bite work/service work. The video of the Fila working the cows was awesome. Too many puppies and young dogs are passed over because of a look, but if raised and given the chance they could very well be the worker in the family. I like dogs that do things vs. dogs that stand a pose. At the same time, I understand my valuea and others are very different. S

Here here! And I so agree with the bolded.

 

[chuckorlando]

Yea I understand how cafib works. I understand no pup is cafib approved. That dont change reality. If you breed to cafib standard, preach cafib standard, and have cafib approved dogs, you are a cafib breeder. People dont go around saying "I hope this dog I got from that breeder who talked all that shit about non cafibs, well I sure hope he did not sell me a non cafib. No you buy a cafib type dog, from a cafib breeder, you expect to have just that, a cafib dog. If thats not the case, cafib should not allow any breeders period to use the club as any kinda talking point. How are you gonna sale pups on the basis of cafib and then say these aint cafib dogs.

Hell for that I should just start a web site for the black cafib's. Get your black cafib pups right here


































pending approval.

 

[zebraworks]

yes this is why CAFIB is important due to their logical addressing of problem of mixbreeding. I know that the individual dogs all must be evaluated but CAFIB does have recognition of individual kennels too from something I read the other day but have to find link to share. Because a kennel recognized as CAFIB approved (or whatever the distinguishing status) does not mean that the dogs do not receive the same evaluation though as you note in your comment. I assume that to travel to an official show for evaluation also a limiting factor to take only the best dogs to represent creations. many dogs created may not be evaluated because of lack of interest from new owners or limitations for current owner. I remember that early on CAFIB would travel to various region to give evaluation but unsure if this is still a work that they undertake today or not?? This would be very helpful when it is not possible to bring many dogs to show at expos.

There is no approval process that I know of that approves a kennel as CAFIB. It is an individual test for each individual dog. I know it is just a play on words for me, but no one can buy a CAFIB approved puppy. One can buy a puppy from CAFIB approved parents, from a kennel that operates under the CAFIB standard but that particular puppy is no more CAFIB approved than his black littermate. (had to toss that in, LOL).
My opinon, is that one who operates on the CAFIB side of the fence should recognize their shortcomings with the same vigor they have for the opposite standard or the mixed/mongrel dog. The percentages of dogs approved by CAFIB are always small, and that is a good thing, because the bar is high(er). There are a lot of dogs from CAFIB approved parents that do not work out and when they are seen it is not the downfall to an organization. It can't be AHA! this is what CAFIB is all about. As shitty as it sounds, when a dog does not make it, does not work out, it is a good thing. It means there is a process in place for getting better. S

 

[aceoutdoor]

The truth is the vast majority of Cafib puppies sold are from parents who are not hip screened or formally temp tested. The vast majority are not from Cafib approved parents. MAYBE they had a dog in their lineage who was approved at one time but their parents are not. And it this way because Cafib does not and can not enforce any breeding screening or restrictions. So even though it sounds like a good system, its nothing more than a poorly and sporadically implemented plan. And there are Cafib breeders who love to use the Cafib name, and have breeding stock from Cafib breeders, who are no better than your average BYB.

 

[zebraworks]

Chuck, well that is just too bad because NOBODY has a "guarantee" that a pup is going to pass an evaluation in the FUTURE (this is impossible). One can only look at a history of past results (which would give a likelihood or "track record" so-to-speak) but there is never a guarantee that each dog will be found acceptable just because the parents or other extended pedigree were evaluated and were.

This is PRECISELY the one mechanism that was needed to combat the mixed breeding and why CAFIB was created in the beginning of club history.

So I ask you again and other people that have down-talked CAFIB to present any dog that CAFIB judges have approved to factually demonstrate the derogatory descriptions people have alleged of CAFIB dogs!!

If anyone wants to criticize a club or breeder it has to be based on FACTS that can be presented. Yes?? This would go along way to addressing the childish bickering of people that primarily do not like the fact that the breed is not "all encompassing" of whatever each person thinks is "fine" or is registered with a registry that has factually registered many mixbred dogs as "fila brasileiro".

Yea I understand how cafib works. I understand no pup is cafib approved. That dont change reality. If you breed to cafib standard, preach cafib standard, and have cafib approved dogs, you are a cafib breeder. People dont go around saying "I hope this dog I got from that breeder who talked all that shit about non cafibs, well I sure hope he did not sell me a non cafib. No you buy a cafib type dog, from a cafib breeder, you expect to have just that, a cafib dog. If thats not the case, cafib should not allow any breeders period to use the club as any kinda talking point. How are you gonna sale pups on the basis of cafib and then say these aint cafib dogs.

Hell for that I should just start a web site for the black cafib's. Get your black cafib pups right here


































pending approval.

 

[zebraworks]

I do not doubt your claim here in the least Ace, which goes directly to the question of whether or not a puppies Parents have a CAFIB evaluation and what the results were?? Or whether the CAFIB club has recognized the kennel in some way as approved (based on evaluations of the individual dogs they create). So no puppy can be "CAFIB" simply because someone like you or a breeder SAYS it is (not the way it works).

It is a good system there is no question about it. NOTHING out there even comes close to it that I am aware of but it takes "due diligence" of the breeder and buyer to get evaluations and survey them to find out what the FACTS are.

The truth is the vast majority of Cafib puppies sold are from parents who are not hip screened or formally temp tested. The vast majority are not from Cafib approved parents. MAYBE they had a dog in their lineage who was approved at one time but their parents are not. And it this way because Cafib does not and can not enforce any breeding screening or restrictions. So even though it sounds like a good system, its nothing more than a poorly and sporadically implemented plan. And there are Cafib breeders who love to use the Cafib name, and have breeding stock from Cafib breeders, who are no better than your average BYB.

 

[aceoutdoor]

Zebra are you wearing blinders and drinking Koolaid, thats a dangerous combo. If Juans dogs are Cafib approved then his puppies are considered by everyone except people like you to be a Cafib dog. And his buddys who breed and stud out those filas without doing any health testing or getting them approved yet themselves claiming Cafib every chance they get shows how the Cafib system is nothing more than a plan full of holes. Like I said Cafib has their share of BYB's.

 

[zebraworks]

If Juans dogs are Cafib approved then his puppies are considered by everyone except people like you to be a Cafib dog.

well then they'd be WRONG, those puppies would only be noted as being offspring of an approved dog. that's it. The CAFIB may be implementing changes in the future as their official site states: "Soon we will be offering existing litters breeders partners CAFIB BRAZIL. All litters are analyzed and disclosed by registered CAFIB where we control from the record cover. So we keep the standard and quality improvement Fila Brasileiro."

And his buddys who breed and stud out those filas without doing any health testing or getting them approved yet themselves claiming Cafib every chance they get shows how the Cafib system is nothing more than a plan full of holes. Like I said Cafib has their share of BYB's.

And this proves nothing derogatory of CAFIB at all but to ignorant people that don't know the facts. The CAFIB even maintains there own data base of 10,000 dogs where a person can join and have access to do their own "due diligence" if they want to, which would expose the people you mention as trying to sell/represent dogs not in the database. of course The dogs could be approved potentially (buyer beware).

Your scenario proves to me how CAFIB is extremely effective, in contrast to a simple "take my word for it". What is FCI or CBKC doing ACE???? LOL

 

[slim12]

CAFIB is a tool just like OFA or PennHipping. People can't sell OFA certified puppies @ 8 weeks old but they can sell puppies off of OFA certified parents. Same as with CAFIB, it is a really nice tool, especially when used, but I do agree it can be used an excellent selling prop as well. The issue is witht he individual breeder. CAFIB can't enforce any rules on its breeders.
An example. A litter is born from CAFIB parents. Pup A grows up and receives CAFIB approval. Pup B grows up with faults and does not pass. Because he came from CAFIB parents and the genetic material is there. If he is bred he could then very well throw a pup that is later approved by CAFIB. Even though 'CAFIB approved parents' is an excellent selling tool it is not a requirement for the next generation to receive approval based on the individual dog itself. Theoretically a line of CAFIB dogs can stop and start at any point.
I like the process as a tool but at the same time I realize it is only as useful as the people using it. I just think it is too easy to use it as a selling tool and too hard to use it as a bettering tool. S

 

[chuckorlando]

I dont want or expect any guarantee. Perception is reality. You dont have to like the perception but it is still the reality. If cafib allows a breeder to use cafib a a selling point, and is other wise known as a cafib breeder, and there dogs suck balls. thats a shitty cafib dog. Thats the perception. It dont matter that you chose not to view it that way. Now if no breeders were allowed to use cafib as a selling point and allowed to use cafib as a way to discredit other breeders, well then I would completely agree with you. But as long as it's allowed to distinguish breeders and and their dogs, there dogs are cafib dogs.

 

[zebraworks]

"perception" is NOT "reality" in anything.

CAFIB has no control over what people say or do so it is ridiculous to say "cafib allows a breeder" to do anything.

What makes a person "otherwise known as a CAFIB breeder" in your mind? their dogs are actually CAFIB approved?? (which would be the ONLY thing that could tie them to "CAFIB breeder").

"if no breeders were allowed"--- what?? is there Dog Police out there using force to allow or disallow people from saying things? lies or truth?? LOL

"Use CAFIB to discredit other breeders" --- How does that happen exactly?? All CAFIB does is hold a standard, rules, and make evaluations of individual dogs in many different areas to be found to be either: "Disqualified", "Regular", "Good", "Very Good" or "Great". That says NOTHING about any other dog or kennel but EVERYTHING about that individual dog.

I dont want or expect any guarantee. Perception is reality. You dont have to like the perception but it is still the reality. If cafib allows a breeder to use cafib a a selling point, and is other wise known as a cafib breeder, and there dogs suck balls. thats a shitty cafib dog. Thats the perception. It dont matter that you chose not to view it that way. Now if no breeders were allowed to use cafib as a selling point and allowed to use cafib as a way to discredit other breeders, well then I would completely agree with you. But as long as it's allowed to distinguish breeders and and their dogs, there dogs are cafib dogs.

 

[zebraworks]

If anything what CAFIB does do to "discredit" others is that they don't pedigree non-evaluated dogs or have "shows" where mixbred dogs get ribbons....I can see where that would discredit others in comparison that do not have any mechanisms to stop the destruction of the breed

 

[aceoutdoor]

If anything what CAFIB does do to "discredit" others is that they don't pedigree non-evaluated dogs or have "shows" where mixbred dogs get ribbons....I can see where that would discredit others in comparison that do not have any mechanisms to stop the destruction of the breed

A registration is not the same as a pedigree. Maybe the reason I have never seen a Cafib pedigree is because the can't get any successive generations approved to show a lineage on any of their dogs. But puppies still get sold regardless.

 

[slim12]

There are pedigrees on CAFIB approved dogs. But theoretically every other dog in the pedigree can be CAFIB approved. There is nothing that says a CAFIB approved dog has to come from CAFIB approved parents. In theory there should be a correlation between approved parents and approved dogs but it is not a requirement. CAFIB can only approve the dog in front of him, and in time his or her offspring based on their individual merit, not where they come from (breeder) or what they are (from).
I think "CAFIB" gets way too much credit. People that choose not to OFA their dogs can't group all the people that choose to OFA as OFA'ers, and then crap all over them when DJD/dysplasia pops up. CAFIB is a tool. Nothing more and nothing less. It is no more or no less effective than the people that choose to use it. And that is the weak length, the people. Like Chuck said we can start up the Rare Black Cafib club and use that as a selling tool. It will most definitely work in selling puppies. It is a buyer beware market. S

A registration is not the same as a pedigree. Maybe the reason I have never seen a Cafib pedigree is because the can't get any successive generations approved to show a lineage on any of their dogs. But puppies still get sold regardless.

 

[chuckorlando]

Zebra your not slow. Juan uses cafib to discredit breeders all the time. The fila forum is full of cafib bullshit to discredit breeders that are not cafib. When one buys a dog from a cafib breeder and the dog turns out to be shit, the only person in the world who will give cafib a pass, is you and cafib. The rest of the world that see's that dog will call it a shit cafib. So sure, well that dog was never approved, so you and the boys can rest easy amongst your self as there is no such thing as a bad cafib. But out side of that room, it's still a shit cafib. Just as a great dog from a cafib line thats never been tested i a great cafib. You can incert the word "type' after every word cafib if it makes it taste better

 

[slim12]

And when there is money to be made things will go askew. That has been true all thru time. If Itanhandu XXXX is worth $$$$ as a stud/brood dog then that dog is worth $$$$$$$$$$$ as a CAFIB approved dog. Is it really easy to find out if said dog was approved with the ideals of the CAFIB ethics and morals in mind?. No. Absolutely not. If I get on a board and put something out there is a fair percentage of people that will believe it because it is on the internet (much like the Allstate commercial, you can't put it on the internet if it is not true). So if I say I have CAFIB approved puppies for sale it will lure the novice buyer in because 'CAFIB puppies' and 'from CAFIB parents' mean the same thing. A selling tool to the novice. So if I am breeder of Filas and I participate and support the CAFIB standard I want that approved list easily accessible to any and every one. Because I do not want anyone using my good name (CAFIB) and my good reputation (CAFIB) to continue the mixing and mongrel making. S

 

[zebraworks]

so you and the boys can rest easy amongst your self as there is no such thing as a bad cafib. But out side of that room, it's still a shit cafib.

you use the term CAFIB like it is an adjective to describe some Dogs that you or other people seemingly identify without any connection to what the FACT is. and the fact of whether a Dog is "CAFIB" is centered on an actual evaluation where the dog will either be 1) Disqualified (obviously not "CAFIB" approved) 2) found to be "regular", "good", "very good" or "excellent"

So are you saying that some dogs you know of that are evaluated as "regular, good, very good, or excellent" are "shit"???