Yes or no?

[broccolini]

Local breeder planned breeding.


I remember that dog from Westminster. I'm not sure I can get past his hairdo.

 

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

Often times, you have to look past some of the show pics as they are primped a lot at shows to draw the attention and hold it. I don't know anything about the standard so can't tell you from that stand point much about the pairing but they do have their health checks done, they are encouraging puppy people to do the right thing, giving lots of the right info on what is right for TMs. Anymore than that and I will have to leave it to the TM owners.

 

[broccolini]

Yes, it's definitely an attention-getting hairdo.

This was the other breeder on my list when we got Athena. She wasn't breeding then and said she might do one more litter after she retired from her real-life job. So, this might be her last litter.

 

[ruthcatrin]

The lady who bred him is a member here though she doesn't come by much. IIRR she said she's not a huge fan of that look either but it shows well.

He's not a bad looking dog, but I have no intention of owning a lion coat anytime soon!

 

[broccolini]

I really like Leeloo.
I don't mind the lion coat but I'm not a huge fan of that light gold color. And the Bon Jovi hair.
Should be a good mix of colors.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Yah, not a fan of the poof lol

He is quite pale, but potentially he could produce darker pups. Aslan is paler than Apollo by quite a bit, but produced pups who are at least as dark as Apollo.

 

[Catia]

I don't like them when they are all poofed out & blown dry either--poor pooch having to go through all that & try to retain some 'male semblance' lol

And yes, it does wreak of 80's Bon Jovi --hah! I suppose the crowd is at that age--Remember--the young girls LOVED Bon Jovi back in the day--lines of chicks willing & ready to "breed"--on the spot-- (for lack of being able to post the better word...)--

I'm not sure what I think about the super pale coat color for a TM though-Just doesn't feel "mountainy" & somehow feels less TM--it is a very nice color, he's a gorgeous pooch--but that color seems more for a retriever-& that pale washes out some of the more defining markings is what I mean.
probably doesn't look as pale when he's not poofed-a lot of that is fluffed undercoat-any "grunge" photos???

 

[Catia]

Now I'm no TM expert--but that Kobo pic--WOW!!!
My Gosh what a beauty--those markings & colors are to die for!!!

Kobo just ***EXUDES TM***--

Somehow Sasha just doesn't, something is lost with that paleness, a lack of TM definition, & doesn't feel true.

Leelou is a nice looking pooch no doubt-- but that Kobo--WOW!

If I were a TM, I'd breed with Kobo LOL!!!

 

[ruthcatrin]

Kobo's not old enough yet lol. And Sasha took the breed at Westminster. Having said that I'm partial to Kobo over Sasha myself!

 

[Rugers-Kris]

I don't know anything about TM's but I really like the color on Sasha. Kobo is absolutely magnificent as well.

 

[broccolini]

Yes, Kobo is awesome. But he's only 8 months old. I wonder what he'll look like as an adult.

Leeloo goes in for an ultrasound on the 28th. I guess we'll decide then. I'm sure not all the pups will have mall hair.

 

[ruthcatrin]

I don't dislike Sasha's pale gold, but given a choice I do prefer Apollo's sort of color "texture".

 

[Catia]

OK, so I'm confused--wanna bring me up to speed???
--seems I am on the sort bus today--

Are you trying to breed yours & looking for a stud --or trying to decide on getting a puppy?

Winnie is full sister to Leelou according to that site, & she's a beautiful black & tan. So possibility would seem high that Leelou would certainly have some darker than Sasha pups if she's mated to Sasha.

Just wanted to note: I do think Sasha is gorgeous, but for a TM that pale, mixed with the lack of definition/washout of the markings, he looks almost like a mix to me.
It could totally also be that horrid "mall hair"/"bon jovi" hair do.
Westminster or not, he just doesn't look as TM-ish-to me--the untrained eye.
-if his genetics & hips/joints are good that's great, & aren't chances of him throwing that much recessive more slim if mated to Leelou?
I know that color is recessive in golden retrievers, & the more pale shades even more difficult to attain even purposefully-I'm assuming it's the same with TM's-???

Now with Kobo--even with all of that light paleness--he has all of that definition of markings & it looks like those definitions/markings a blue agouti in those pics-so are dilute-that combo is awesome & something to behold. With the lighter color TM's--that's what I'd prefer-the definition.
I can't believe he's only 8 months old! I didn't read the text the 1st time--just was staring at the pic.

Me personally, if I were in that market, & looking for a TM pup, I'd be waiting with bated breath & $$ in hand for a Kobo pup that looks like him (assuming of course his genetics are good & hips sound). I know nothing about what age a male should breed--once humans get involved--how long do they wait?

 

[ruthcatrin]

Broc's looking to get another TM puppy lol (they're addicitive )

They're not sure yet what causes some TMs to be that pale vs say Apollo's color (both of which are "gold" as far as the show ring goes). Apollo's full brother and littermate Aslan is quite a bit paler than Apollo (tough not as pale as Sasha) and has fathered a litter, several of which are golds as dark as Apollo. BUT the bitch was a black and tan with a rich red tan. This year he's to be bred to a pale gold bitch so we'll see what we get. Nor are they sure of the genetics of that lion coat (aka the poof).

The big issue with Kobo's age is he's to young to have had all the OFFICIAL health testing done. Hips can be done as early as 4months via Pennhip (though closer to 2yrs is better and more accurate), elbows can be pre-limmed via OFA now (thogh they can't be officially done till 2yrs), and thyroid can't be officially done till at least 1yr of age (though the test can be run at any time really). Those are the minimums for a TM. So I suppose in theory he could be bred now. Ideally though he should be closer to 2yrs of age or older just so that all the testing can be offical. Plus these dogs change SO MUCH as they grow before they're 2 or so it can be hard to see what they're really going to be like.

 

[Catia]

Ok, so to answer the question--for me, I'd be a firm "No".

I've only ever done rescues, so don't have a clear understanding on how it works with breeders.
Every time I thought I was going to plan & purchase a from a breeder, a pooch came along that both stole my heart & needed a home.
So that being my experience, it seems to get quite a bit weird & restrictive from my point of view with breeders.

My (limited) understanding is that because of these lines you are looking at, it is much more restrictive right?
Meaning you have to deposit up front & decide you want a pup no matter what, just based upon who the parents are-before the litter is even born?

Are you going to show your pooches?

If you're asking yourself "yes or no" now, it seems there's some other doubt/apprehension, aside from just being a playmate.
Obviously the genetics are great with both, but you don't seem hot on Sasha's looks either.

For me, the lion coat looks perfectly fine--when not all blown dry & puffed up to look unnatural. I just don't really like Sasha's appearance for a TM.
Do you have any pics you can post when he's not looking like that?
I cannot understand for the life of me why they make dog's fur look so unnatural in these shows--& then judge appearances.

My other personal preference would be for a true working TM line pup.
Since I've been reading about TM's, after being here, my heart just goes out to the effort to preserve the breed & their true working abilities.
I don't know enough of what the history is of the parents though, maybe they are working.

I just worry that with all of the crappy breeding in China for appearance, & all of the new found interest in TM's, & now the showing that TM's breed will get destroyed like how it did with german shepherds. I hope with all of the newer technology with hips/joints & other genetic stuff that the same won't happen. And I hope the garbage going on in China blows over as a horrible fad.

It's not like you can just pick up & trek to the himilaya's & choose a pooch from an old monk lol.
If it were that simple I'd say do that !!!

 

[broccolini]

Yes, we are getting another puppy. Probably.

Athena's breeder just found out that his male(not Athena's father) has elbow dysplasia so he will be getting neutered. He is two and just had his hips and elbows checked. His elbows were checked as a puppy too and they were fine then so I wouldn't put much stock in testing done before the age of two.

Anyway, after Athena's litter I don't think he is interested in doing another AI litter.

This is a good primer on coat genetics.

 

[broccolini]

Ok, so to answer the question--for me, I'd be a firm "No".

I've only ever done rescues, so don't have a clear understanding on how it works with breeders.
Every time I thought I was going to plan & purchase a from a breeder, a pooch came along that both stole my heart & needed a home.
So that being my experience, it seems to get quite a bit weird & restrictive from my point of view with breeders.

My (limited) understanding is that because of these lines you are looking at, it is much more restrictive right?
Meaning you have to deposit up front & decide you want a pup no matter what, just based upon who the parents are-before the litter is even born?

Are you going to show your pooches?

If you're asking yourself "yes or no" now, it seems there's some other doubt/apprehension, aside from just being a playmate.
Obviously the genetics are great with both, but you don't seem hot on Sasha's looks either.

For me, the lion coat looks perfectly fine--when not all blown dry & puffed up to look unnatural. I just don't really like Sasha's appearance for a TM.

Well, rescuing is great but I like large, serious dogs, and since I have kids and cats, I prefer to get puppies.

Yes, a deposit is usually required to reserve a pup but most breeders will refund before a certain age or if the color/sex you reserved isn't available.

No, I am not a huge fan of Sasha's color or hairdo but that's about the least important thing when picking a dog. I wouldn't dismiss him based on those things. And no, we don't plan on showing but that doesn't mean we don't want a well-bred dog. We want a sound, healthy dog with a stable temperament. That's what Sasha is. Even if he wears too much Aqua Net.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Athena's breeder just found out that his male(not Athena's father) has elbow dysplasia so he will be getting neutered. He is two and just had his hips and elbows checked. His elbows were checked as a puppy too and they were fine then so I wouldn't put much stock in testing done before the age of two.

Yah, which is why I prefer full official results done at or near the age of 2 vs prelims or early Pennhip results.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Getting a dog from a breeder can be very restrictive. And you as the puppy buyer defiently has to make some decisions up front too. Trust me, I don't have any problem with someone prefering to rescue, there's plenty of dogs who need it! On the other hand if you KNOW what you want, and you can find a breeder who can provide that, then getting a pup from a breeder can be the ideal solution. But it takes alot of research and learning to be sure.

 

[ruthcatrin]

No, I am not a huge fan of Sasha's color or hairdo but that's about the least important thing when picking a dog. I wouldn't dismiss him based on those things. And no, we don't plan on showing but that doesn't mean we don't want a well-bred dog. We want a sound, healthy dog with a stable temperament. That's what Sasha is. Even if he wears too much Aqua Net.

I think my concern with getting a pup of his, is its hard to tell how much of the color and hair is going to come through to his pups, and it can even be hard to tell after their born. As pups Apollo and Aslan didn't look signifigantly different in color and fluff factor, but by the time they were 6 months it was very obvious. On the other hand just getting a B&T would fix half that, and as pups if they're going to be sable it ought to show SOME....