Si got to do his job today

[Bailey's Mom]

I attacked, Yes! I am Offended, YES! It is a very slippery slope. Saying: It's a farm...it's okay...it's a separate set of rules..City folk don't understand...BULL!

The reason I didn't come hammer and tongs at Kris is that I respect her, she is a potent member of our community. Her word for or against a situation will carry a lot of weight. I am a relative new comer...only a quarter of her posts, but right is right. Society accepts hunting, I accept hunting. I would hunt and I would accept killing an animal for meat. I would accept using Dogos to help me hunt down dangerous wild pigs. I accept that our dogs were, by and large, created to be hunters and, if needed killers.

I hold as a truth that our dogs are potentially dangerous, and as such they are hounded by breed specific legislation to limit their presence in society. We, from time to time, see or hear of a dog rising to protect their families and they kill another animal (Kimber comes to mind) and they are heroes, but are often, initially, treated like criminals.

Is it appropriate for any of us to support a canned hunt, on the flimsy excuse that farms are exempt from societal standards? Is it? With BSL breathing down our necks, and a very healthy underworld of dog fighting just waiting to manipulate this conversation into an arena for acceptance of beast-on-beast combat, is it a credible use of our Forum?

Hell's Bells, I get it. My chicken was scared when it went to ConAgra for processing. My steak, was scared shitless going into the shute to be bolt killed. Death isn't pretty, but done with every effort to minimize the suffering: societally acceptable.

I'm not going to become a vegetarian, but I look for farmers that give their cattle a LIFE...Free Range, healthy...eating off the land.

I just don't see any value to promoting a vicious and unnecessary abuse of a caged, wild animal. Kill it, yes, shoot it dead. One is necessary, the other is vengence and devolves into a bloodsport. Saying: Oh, my, guns aren't acceptable to me, I have to let my 140 lb Boerbel rip it to death. That's acceptable!? Please....!

It only takes one good person refusing to object to an evil, that allows evil to take a foothold and grow. It's a very slippery slope. I'm sure Jeff1 will experience multiple "reach out and touch" responses from beast-on-beast enthusiasts.

Who cares, it's just a coyote.... It's just a coyote.

 

[Rugers-Kris]

Ok, here is my opinion on the whole thing. I do not live on a farm and even when I moved to my three acres, I will not be living on a farm, HOWEVER, If I saw a nasty coyote ...it would be killed!! No matter what! I don't want them on my land, around my house or even in my garbage if that were the case. The easiest way would be to shoot the nasty thing or trap and then shoot BUT apparently very few people are actually digesting what Jeff said about the guns. Not only did he NOT say that he was against guns...He even pointed out after the fact that he was NOT against guns but did not/could not have one for personal reasons. HAVING SAID THAT SEVERAL TIMES...He is left with a couple options. 1. He can attempt to beat the damn thing to death (fairly painful and not do quick death) or allow his very capable dogs to do the "job" and he opts for the latter and that is his business. How many times are people going to chime in about shooting the bike beast? He CAN NOT shoot it!! Does that mean that he should allow them to come on his property to kill his livestock/animals?? NO!! As for life in the farm being very different .. That is a reality!! This is not dog fighting... This is doing your best to protect you and yours with what you have to work with.


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[DMikeM]

To me smacking it in the head with a bat is more humane than allowing it to be torn to shreds by a dog.

I am in a bad position here because if I was out and a coyote was to try and attack me or mine and my dogs got after it and killed it I would not have a problem with that but if I had the chance to shoot that coyote without harming my dogs I would opt to do that first to save it from being ripped apart alive. But would I allow my dogs to rip apart a living animal in a cage? NO! That is Barbarism same as being drawn and quartered while still alive, racked and pulled apart, burned alive. All the stuff we as civilized humans were said to have put aside in a civilized society. Am I thinking altruistic? Well maybe so but as a person that watched a pack of coyotes pklaying on a ski slope taking turns sliding down the snow watching each other and yipping in approval as each one passed by, I can see these animals in a different light. Sure they cause damage, they are just trying to survive like any other preditor.

If Jeff can't or wont use a gun (I can understand circumstances) then get an axe or a sword or spear and do it with respect for the life rather than let his dogs have at it.

 

[jeff 1]

First off, I only trap coyotes in the winter time at night. In the day time I don't worry about them. To cold in Maine at night to leave my dogs outside. Summertime at least one dog sleeps outside ,I don't have to trap. The funny thing is if I told you that I don't trap at night and I left my dogs outside to run them off, somebody on here would crucify me for leaving dogs outside in sub zero temperatures. This thread has gotten a little out of hand. I wAs just proud of my dogs doing a job for me and thought I would share. I havn't had a good pair of big working dogs like these since the early nineties,and believe me I've had a lot of big dogs. Once again sorry to offend anybody. I will watch what I post. And just for the record a good dog can do his job in 15 seconds, just about the same time it would take with a bat

 

[Rugers-Kris]

First, y'all will have to forgive my typos as I am in my phone so it is what it is. To each their own. Jeff is doing it his way and I don't see an issue with it. The only mistake he made was posting about it in a forum where you have judgmental people who would literally attack him and even talk badly about him and imply all sorts of ridiculous things to make themselves feel better. If a pack of Coyotes frolicking on public property and not hurting anything is one thing but these coyotes are coming into his farm and they are vile, nasty creatures so he (and his dogs) take care of it. I assure you that I would not tolerate one on my property. Maybe that's where the real issue is...there are several crimes (Molestation of a child for one) that I think should still be handled like they did in the "old days" like the ways you mentioned so...I think it all depends on the way you look at it.

Coming into my property threatening me, mine or my way of life will not be met with sympathy or much thought to how civilized my behavior is, I assure you. Yeah, I would use one of my many guns because I own them and it's easier but whatever means necessary would be exactly what happened to an intruder in my life without losing a bit of sleep.


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[marti1357]

I do not agree with this at all. Trapping an animal and letting a dog attack and kill it is not humane. Couldn't you just dispatch the Coyote with a gun and be done with it?

I am with you 100% Mike, but what can we do? Other people think differently and its a free country.

 

[DennasMom]

All else aside...

I love seeing working dogs that work.
And, Jeff1 - your dogs are AWESOME. Beautiful!!

 

[AZ Boerboel]

Good Job Si!
Any way you slice it death is brutal and no matter the method the intent and end result is the same, do what you have to do to take care of your livestock.
I grew up on a ranch as well and have a deep seated hatred of coyotes. Only good coyote is a dead coyote and I personally do not care how it is done. After watching countless livestock and chicken attacks, had several dogs and cats taken by them, and watched a pack of them look at my little cousin way too closely they are on my eliminate on sight list. The only thing worse to me on a ranch than a pack of coyotes nearby is a pack of Feral dogs. My grandmother was attacked by them while out checking cattle which in turn led to a week long elimination hunt.

Now that I'm in the city I still have to deal with them. Lucia goes bat shit angry when she smells or sees coyotes when we walk the canal. The first time she saw one it was all I could do to hold her back and she never reacts like that with dogs. If she had been off leash she would torn it up.

 

[AZ Boerboel]

First off, I only trap coyotes in the winter time at night. In the day time I don't worry about them. To cold in Maine at night to leave my dogs outside. Summertime at least one dog sleeps outside ,I don't have to trap. The funny thing is if I told you that I don't trap at night and I left my dogs outside to run them off, somebody on here would crucify me for leaving dogs outside in sub zero temperatures. This thread has gotten a little out of hand. I wAs just proud of my dogs doing a job for me and thought I would share. I havn't had a good pair of big working dogs like these since the early nineties,and believe me I've had a lot of big dogs. Once again sorry to offend anybody. I will watch what I post. And just for the record a good dog can do his job in 15 seconds, just about the same time it would take with a bat

And proud you should be. You have some great dogs who know to work for you and are in incredible shape.

 

[Dan]

For what it's worth ...
It's an emotional topic and one that animal lovers feel strongly about.
But ultimately, nobody here is supporting any form of animal cruelty are they?
Jeff certainly isn't.
If you can agree that there are times that dangerous predators around your home need to be killed, then there is only the question of how.
I'm no expert on this at all, but I'm not sure that there is a sure-fire humane way of killing a largish animal.
Shooting sounds sensible - but unless at point blank range, shot animals sometimes get injured and then slink off to hide and die a slow horrible death.
On the other hand, I have personally witnessed African wild dogs hunt and kill an impala (some kind) and I promise you that it was stone dead and in 4 pieces in about 2 seconds (literally).
Fox hunters in the UK also hold that hounds kill almost instantly (although I don't personally approve of fox hunting).
Jeff has said that he doesn't own a gun; so shooting wasn't an option.
I'm really not sure that beating it to death with a bat or hacking at it with an axe are necessarily going to be much more humane than being killed by such a large powerful dog.
I appreciate that people feel strongly about a topic like this but I really think the tone of some of the responses is over the top.
Jeff saw using the dog as a practical and (relatively) humane solution to a problem.
He hasn't set out to cause offence or to cause unnecessary suffering.
Maybe having dogs ranging around his land as a deterrent would work? - but then 100 acres! That's a lot to patrol

I think its fine to express strongly held and opposing personal opinions, but some of the responses are needlessly aggressive.

I think if I had 100 acres, I'd just have my own Navy and let them deal with it!