Recommended reading on dog training

[musicdeb]

Deb where is the "like" button?

---------- Post added at 12:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:18 PM ----------



I like that site too. Very helpful.

Like button would be awesome!

 

[GibsonSG]

Well, I made a small bit of headway over the weekend. Went to Petsmart looking for the Pet Botanics food and they didn't have any, so I bought a bunch of other types of treats instead. I remember reading that most dogs go nuts for anything liver... so although she didn't like the BilJac liver ones, I bought a different brand of actual freeze dried beef liver and she does like those. It's still a fight to get her outside, but it's a little bit easier with the new treats... but she mostly wants to go into her crate instead of outside for some reason.

Then we had a battle over her eating... I tried to fed her Sunday night and she wouldn't eat, so I just took her food up. Then Monday morning she refused again, so I put her out for the day hungry. Then Monday evening she refused once again.... I didn't want to, but I took her food up anyway... I remember everybody saying they won't starve themselves so was determined to stick with it. This morning I put her food down, and she acted like she wasn't going to eat again... but I have been setting the timer on the stove for 15 minutes, and when it goes off I take the food.... as soon as it went off this morning she started eating so I let her finish. We'll see how it goes at feeding time this evening... I have a feeling we're going to go through several cycles of this before she finally gives up though. I think maybe if she does it again, and then starts eating when the timer goes off, I'm going to take her food anyway just to prove the point that she needs to eat when I put it down and that's that.

We also got into a regular schedule of walking her these last few days... that is the one and only thing she gets super excited about... when I grab her harness she goes crazy running and bouncing around the house. She has gotten much better with the pulling at least... I took her out Saturday and we spent an hour without ever leaving the front of the house because every time she would pull I would stop and then go the other way. Last night when I took her out the second she would start to pull I would tug the leash a little and she would immediately stop. She has been pretty tuckered out the last few days with the walking too... once we get back to the house she sacks out and doesn't really move until time to go to bed.

I wanted to get some opinions on something too. When our beagle was little, he had a severe chewing problem, and nothing we would do could get him to stop it. The only thing we found that would work was a shake can (empty soda can with some pennies in it) and that would stop him dead in his tracks when we shook it and pretty much broke him of chewing. Once I brought Jemma home, she was so afraid of loud noises that the can would scare her to death, so we stopped using it. Well, over the weekend, I was trying to get her outside and she'll just lay down in the middle of the floor and go dead weight, I was having to basically pick her up/drag her out the door. I remembered the shake can, but we had long since thrown it away, but there was a box of whoppers candy sitting on the counter, so I picked it up and shook it and she immediately jumped up and I used it to herd her out the door. So I used that a few times to get her to cooperate. It's gotten to the point now that like this morning she refused to come out of her crate, and I just picked up the box, and she immediately went out the door.... I don't even have to shake it now, just show it to her and it has the same effect. Is this a bad idea? It's not something I want to use in the longterm, but it's the only thing that seems to work right now aside from physically dragging her around (Which at 80 lbs, even though small for a DDB, is still a chore). What do you guys think?

Edit: Just to clarify... when I do use the box the motivate her, I don't just make it a negative experience. As soon as she goes outside/in her crate/whatever I was trying to get her to do she still gets a treat/good girl/ear scratches etc so she knows what she has done good.

 

[musicdeb]

GibsonSG, is it hot outside? By becoming frustrated with Jemma, it makes her more stubborn because she feels the frustration. When Titan used to do this to me all the time, I would so frustrated and even get angry. I used to pull him to the door, sometimes he would get up and go out and other times, he would just lay there. I stopped dragging him to the door which in turn stopped my frustration. Titan only goes out twice a day for a 10 minute walk in the summer and he does his business, then it's back to the apartment. When he does his business, he turns around and heads back. Mastiffs hate the hot weather.

 

[GibsonSG]

It hasn't been particularly hot this week, mostly overcast with temps in the 80s. A couple of weeks ago we had a week straight of 100+ temps and I didn't have any problems getting her out then. I don't think it's an issue with the heat, because most days when I get home from work at 5 I'll let them in, and they come in and say hi and then they're right back out in the yard of their own accord and won't come back in until it's time to eat. If she wants to stay in her crate I could let her, but it's an issue of her having to stay in there for 4 hours or sometimes 8 straight if I don't get to take a lunch. And Huckleberry always wants to be outside, and she hates to be away from him, so she'll sit in her crate and whine and bark all day if she's in and he's out.

Yesterday evening when I fed them, she ignored her food until the 15 minute timer went off on the stove and then started to eat, so I took it up. Then last night when it was time for bed, she dragged her feet and was super slow about it, but she went out without much of a fuss. This morning has been my first trouble free morning out of her in quite awhile. I got up and let them out, then let them back in and she went straight into her crate, put their food down and she ate right away, and then she went straight outside when I let her back out. So it's coming along.

 

[musicdeb]

80 can be too hot for Mastiffs. Titan hates temps over 70-75.

Glad you're seeing progress!

IMHO, I do not believe 15 minutes is long enough for a dog to decide if they want to eat especially if they are picky eaters. I used to let Titan sit for an hour with his raw meat. You mentioned that Jemma would want to eat when she heard the timer go off, maybe she relates the sound to the whopper box meaning she can do something like go outside or eat? I believe if the timer goes off and she wants to eat, then let her eat.

 

[GibsonSG]

You mentioned that Jemma would want to eat when she heard the timer go off, maybe she relates the sound to the whopper box meaning she can do something like go outside or eat? I believe if the timer goes off and she wants to eat, then let her eat.

Hmmm... I hadn't considered that... my hope was that she would start to associate the timer going off with food going away, and want to eat before that. But you could be right, she might be associating the sound with time to eat instead.

She wasn't a picky eater when I got her... maybe now she's finally getting comfortable enough to feel that she can complain. The rescue I got her from was feeding science diet, and on their recommendation I put her on purina pro plan. Then I did my research on dog food and figured out purina was horrible, so I switched to Orijen, but had some issues with supply availability at the only shop in town that sold it. So I switched again to Merrick BeforeGrain for a few months and that's when she started getting picky. So I switched again to Blue Wilderness Salmon and that lasted about a month, and then Blue Wilderness Duck which lasted a few weeks. Now I just rotate between Salmon and Duck formulas, which seems to help. They also have a chicken one, but I've been hesitant to give that to her since it seems a lot of Mastiffs have issues with chicken based foods, but I might give it a shot just to give her some more variety.

Huckleberry on the other hand will hoover up anything you put in front of him, so he's never a problem. :lolbangtable: He starts eating before I can even get the bowl on the ground and is done before I ever get Jemma's bowl into her crate.

 

[bahamamarg]

maybe try setting the timer for less and less time in case she is associating that now with "it's ok to eat". Dex is a terrible eater. I've never in my life met a dog so disinterested in food. He likes treats when we give them, but that is only during training/outside times and I cut back on his food to compensate. He's a healthy 195lbs but when we first got him, he was leaving food and not eating great. We kept him on Buffolo Blue for Giant Breeds that he was eating before. He also had some wet food in cans (same make) but his poops were quite soft (I know, gross....) and I read that that could be too much protein. We prefer dry food anyway, so slowly cut back and have just now after 6 months eliminated the wet stuff. We also switched him to twice daily feedings - everything I read before we got him said that we should feed him this way to help avoid bloat. His previous owner was stuffing him full all at one feeding at night. I would say give it time to readjust based on our experience. As we "type" he has his head over my shoulder and but wagging telling me it's time to eat>>>>>

 

[kona]

I just adopted a DDB 3 weeks ago. I am having some of the same issues as you guys. She is great loving dog, however, I am having an issue with her coming back to me when I call. Sometimes she will, but not all the time. I know it is going to take a lot of patience and time and I am so glad to know I am not alone!

 

[Sadies Mom]

Get a 30 foot leash and let her get some distance from you. Call her name and give her a treat when she comes to you. That way she will associate with coming to = yummy treats and lovin'. You can start inside without the leash. Dogs comes to us multiple times during the day with out us calling them, so take this oppertunity as well.

 

[Sadies Mom]

Here is a good video on teaching "Come"
[video=youtube;QonpHq930Rk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QonpHq930Rk&feature=relmfu[/video]

 

[musicdeb]

That guy is pretty awesome! He has great tips. Thanks for sharing, Sadiesmom!

---------- Post added at 08:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:21 PM ----------

I just adopted a DDB 3 weeks ago. I am having some of the same issues as you guys. She is great loving dog, however, I am having an issue with her coming back to me when I call. Sometimes she will, but not all the time. I know it is going to take a lot of patience and time and I am so glad to know I am not alone!

Congrats on your new DDB baby! How old? Do you have pics? What is her name?

 

[musicdeb]

I just adopted a DDB 3 weeks ago. I am having some of the same issues as you guys. She is great loving dog, however, I am having an issue with her coming back to me when I call. Sometimes she will, but not all the time. I know it is going to take a lot of patience and time and I am so glad to know I am not alone!

Congrats on your new DDB baby! How old? Do you have pics? What is her name?

 

[Sadies Mom]

He has a lot of great videos on various topics on YouTube. No harsh corrections, only possitive reinforcements. I am going to look though all of his videos. It just gives me some more tools to apply with "the Beast":razzberry:

 

[musicdeb]

He has a lot of great videos on various topics on YouTube. No harsh corrections, only possitive reinforcements. I am going to look though all of his videos. It just gives me some more tools to apply with "the Beast":razzberry:

The precious little girl is not a beast. hehehehehehehe

 

[kona]

I named her Kona. She is approximately 18-24 months according to my vet. I have a few pictures I took on my Iphone the first weekend. I just joined the Mastiff forum today and I am going through the "newbie" manuevering so hope to get one posted of her soon.
What kind of issues have you had with Titan? The main issue I am having with Kona is for her to come when I call ,and she is really pretty good at ignoring me at times. I read on the internet in some of the dog training sites that one reason they don't come back when you call is that they are not feeling this is their home yet and it could take up to a year for them to feel secure (heaven forbid!). The above video was helpful. There are a few other issues but that one is the most important to me. When on the couch with me when I first got her, she snapped at my boxers, but I nipped that one in the bud immediately (good old Caesar Milan technique). My two boxers mind really well so hopefully she is "taking that into consideration and taking good notes." ha ha
She was really thin when I got her and the rescue told me she was a picky eater but I really haven't had a problem with her eating. I feed my dogs (I also have two large boxers) Taste of the Wild and she likes it. She weighed 82 lbs at the vet a little over 2 weeks ago, and the vet said he would like to see her put on maybe another 15 lbs only -said she should maintain her "figure".
How long have you Titan? What kind of issues have you had, and still have? I see you are here in the Dallas area too! That is great! \

 

[musicdeb]

I named her Kona. She is approximately 18-24 months according to my vet. I have a few pictures I took on my Iphone the first weekend. I just joined the Mastiff forum today and I am going through the "newbie" manuevering so hope to get one posted of her soon.
What kind of issues have you had with Titan? The main issue I am having with Kona is for her to come when I call ,and she is really pretty good at ignoring me at times. I read on the internet in some of the dog training sites that one reason they don't come back when you call is that they are not feeling this is their home yet and it could take up to a year for them to feel secure (heaven forbid!). The above video was helpful. There are a few other issues but that one is the most important to me. When on the couch with me when I first got her, she snapped at my boxers, but I nipped that one in the bud immediately (good old Caesar Milan technique). My two boxers mind really well so hopefully she is "taking that into consideration and taking good notes." ha ha
She was really thin when I got her and the rescue told me she was a picky eater but I really haven't had a problem with her eating. I feed my dogs (I also have two large boxers) Taste of the Wild and she likes it. She weighed 82 lbs at the vet a little over 2 weeks ago, and the vet said he would like to see her put on maybe another 15 lbs only -said she should maintain her "figure".
How long have you Titan? What kind of issues have you had, and still have? I see you are here in the Dallas area too! That is great! \

I've had Titan since end of Feb 2012. Yes, it can take up to a year for a dog to feel completely comfortable and trusting in their new environment. Titan is rounding the corner of completely trusting me. He's improved 99%.

Recall. Titan is about 90% there on recall. As you soon find out, DDB's are extremely stubborn. They become easily bored with training, so training them will last about 10 minutes at most. DDB's are also extremely lazy. Titan likes to play more now that he's beginning to feel comfortable with me. He plays for about 5-10 minutes, does a few zoomies and then he's done. During the summer, he hates to walk. He will go out and do his business and then back we go. In the winter and real early in the morning during the summer, he does quite well and he will walk for about 20 minutes.

Is Kona dog aggressive? People aggressive? Titan was not socialized as a puppy or very little socialization. Titan is dog aggressive especially with male dogs and small dogs. He does well with Sadie and Daisy, 2 EM's we have play dates with.

I'm working on socializing him more. I had a trainer come to us to help train him and I've done a lot of training with him. He's doing rather well but we still have issues with some dogs and men, especially black men.

Hope you can join us for one of our play dates.

 

[kona]

No, Kona is not dog aggressive. The day I adopted her I spent the whole day with her and we took her to the dog park and she was great. She is kinda nonchalant. Anything goes pretty much. Seems like she has been well socialized. After I had spent the whole day with her and brought her home on the next day or so when she was laying by me on the couch when my Boxers came up she growled as she lifted her head - I immediately corrected her with a light distraction with a couple of fingers to her neck and a firm "no" and she was fine. She did it twice that first weekend and with quick corrections both times, has not done it again. There are some things she seems to learn and accept really quickly - like staying out of the one flower bed I have - she tried me twice - I told her "no, Kona - out" - both times and so far hasn't tried it again. She has not been food aggressive either so I feel really fortunate since no one knew of her past. She did have a litter of puppies within the last 3-4 months which of course was obvious. She has had a few off the wall quick barking moments in her sleep so guess she has active dreams! It is a definite this breed is stubborn-among other things. I did a lot of research on the DDB (for the past couple of years with the last several months on a more aggressive note - just love this breed). I can't imagine having any other breed. She is pretty funny as she will sit in front of the TV and watch The Dog Whisperer and watch the dogs on the screen - and will bark at them. She goes right up to the screen trying to get closer to them and the speakers give her a little thought process as she tries to figure out where the sounds are coming from - so glad she hasn't tried to attack the TV - at least yet! It is pretty cool to watch her.

 

[musicdeb]

Sounds like Kona is an awesome dog!

I used to think the Dog Whisperer was the sh*t but found out his training harmed more dogs than helped and he was dog groomer before he started on TV. No knowledge of actual dog training.

Yea, when I Skype with family members, Titan sits at the speakers wondering how they got in there. It's so funny.

I look forward to meeting you both at a future play date. Keep an eye on the post, North Texas Play date. We have one scheduled for 8/12 @ 10am with location TBD.

 

[GibsonSG]

Update: Jemma is doing much better now. Don't know that all the problems stemmed from this, but it seems the eating may have just been related to feeding her too much. She was so underweight when I got her that I was feeding her quite a bit... 3.5 to 4 cups a day of Blue Wilderness. She weighed 65 lbs when I first got her, and she's up to 85 lbs now. We had tried to cut her food back before, and she lost a bunch of weight again, so I had just kept at 1 3/4 to 2 cups twice per day. So I cut her down to 1 1/4 twice a day and she's eating with no fuss now and hasn't lost any weight.

Also I think getting all the different types of treats and rotating them has helped with the other behavior problems, for the most part she's going outside with no issues now. She still gets a little stubborn once in awhile, but it's not too terribly bad. Also, since she got into the back room and was chewing on the stuffed animal back there (one that she can't have) we decided to get her one of her own. Now she has her own toy that Huckleberry is not allowed to touch, and she likes it. She'll run around with it in her mouth and play fetch with herself, pretty funny to watch..... and occasionally she'll play fetch with it if we throw it. About 10 minutes is the max playtime and then she just wants to sleep on the couch... and I've been putting it in her crate with her at night, she uses it for a pillow.

So all in all, much better now.

 

[m0rg4n]

Awesome! Glad things are working out for you.