Recommended reading on dog training

[GibsonSG]

Was wanting to see if anybody had any personal experience/recommendations for reading (books, websites, etc) on dog training. I'm getting frustrated with my Dogue de Bordeaux and need to get some ideas on what's going on with her.

The backstory: I have a 1 year old Beagle, and a 2 1/2 year old DDB (which I rescued, have had her for about 6 months now). The Beagle is totally food motivated... I'm pretty sure I could get him to walk through fire if I was holding a treat on the other side. The DDB on the other hand is not... she likes treats, but she can take or leave them... she also doesn't respond all that well to praise... she likes to be petted, but it's not really her motivation to do things.

She has gotten harder and harder to control lately, and I've got to get her to start listening to me. I've posted before about her issues with eating... I feed both dogs in their crates and most days it's a fight to get her into the crate, and then she refuses to eat once she's in there. Like yesterday, I gave her breakfast and she just laid down and refused to eat. It took two hours of me taking the food away, and then putting it back in before she finally ate. But when she does eat, she cleans the bowl and checks everywhere around it to make sure she didn't miss any. I've tried changing foods, taking the food up and letting her go until evening without eating (she'll do the same thing after this, even after going 24 hours without food.), getting her really excited about eating, etc... nothing seems to work. But it's not as if she hates the crate or anything, at night when it's time to go to bed, she'll go right in there with no issues whatsoever. Or if we're going to be leaving for a bit and don't want to put her outside, she goes in with little hassle. She even goes in there on her own quite a bit just to lay down and chill out.

She's also gotten quite stubborn about going outside... first thing in the morning it's generally not an issue, but any other time she will flat out refuse to go and it might take me 30 minutes to get her out the door at times. She will run away, or just lay down and refuse to get up. She won't come when called. I can't get her to not pull the leash when I walk her... I've tried treats... the tree method (when she starts pulling just stand there and refuse to move until she backs off and the leash goes slack and then praise/reward and turn and walk the other way). I've taken her out, and just to walk to the end of the street and back (about 1 block) it's taken over an hour of me stopping and waiting for her to stop pulling and then continuing on over and over. I don't have any of these issues with my Beagle... but we've had him since he was a puppy... I'm sure some of this probably stems from what she went through before I got her... but I know there's got to be a way to fix it.

When I first got her she peed in the house one time, I told her no and put her outside, and it has never been a problem since. She has also never shown any inclination to chew anything other than an occasional toy. The other day I let her in and she went roaming through the house as she always does, and she peed in one of the rooms (I didn't see her do it, just discovered it later, so I couldn't scold her for it). Then later on that same night she got one of my girlfriends stuffed animals and was chewing on it. Since then, every time I let her in she goes for that room (where she peed and chewed the stuffed animal) and we've had to close the door to keep her out of there because of it. I just don't know what gets in to her sometimes, and I definitely need to take some steps to get it under control.

I would really like to start leaving her out of the crate at night... we had a scare with a would be burglar a few nights ago... she woke me at 2:30 am barking (she never barks at night, so I knew there was something wrong) and I immediately heard someone messing with a window in another room trying to get it open. I got up and turned on the light in the room and went and let her out of her crate and she made a beeline back there to that window and jumped up and pushed the blinds out of the way to look out. But as it stands, I don't think I could leave her out without having to worry about peeing/chewing/etc....

So, in summation if anyone is still reading, I realize that DDBs are hard headed and will take some extra effort to train over other breeds... I'm just looking for recommended methods/reading that will help me out and hopefully get me on track to having a better behaved best friend.

 

[Smokeycat]

Is there a toy that she loves that you could use as a training reward?

 

[GibsonSG]

There really isn't, she is kind of meh with toys too. Like I say, occasionally she'll get one and chew on it for a bit, but those times are few and far between. She doesn't even really like to play all that much, at least not with me. Her and the Beagle like to wrestle around with each other and romp around the backyard. But whereas he loves to play fetch, tug of war, etc.. she doesn't. Sometimes they'll play tug of war with each other with a rope toy, but that's about it.

I think she had a hard life before I got her, she is very skittish... doesn't like loud noises, flinches if you move toward her too quickly, and cowers/backs away if you talk to her in a stern voice. So maybe that has a lot to do with it, and she's still just adjusting.... I'm not sure. She is much better now than she was when I first got her. A few days after I took her home I dropped my keys while she was standing in front of me and she almost jumped out of her skin and tore everything up trying to get away, now things like that don't bother her quite so much. She will still flinch a bit, but it's not the drastic reaction it used to be.

She is also very submissive... even though she's twice as big as the beagle, he's the one that rules the roost. A few weeks ago we had some visitors stay with us for a night, and they had their dog, a little toy poodle, with them. When we first introduced them to each other he growled and snapped at her and she immediately laid down and rolled over on her back in front of him.

 

[Sadies Mom]

What treats have you tried?

 

[GibsonSG]

Pieces of hot dog, little bit of bread with peanut butter on it, milkbones, biljac liver, pet botanics mini training treats (they sell them at petsmart), beggin strips, canine carry outs, blue wilderness salmon biscuits, and Ol' Roy bones (I know, I know... Ol Roy anything is terrible).

Ironically it's the milkbones and Ol Roy ones that she seems to like more than anything else... but still doesn't go bonkers for them the way my Beagle does. Course, he goes bonkers for anything edible.

 

[Sadies Mom]

Try the Pet Botanics food availabe at PetSmart. It comes in a "sausage" tube, and comes in Lamd, Beef and Chicken flavors. just cut it up in bite size squares. I call it puppy crack. I tried the training treats and Sade did not care for them at all, the food option= "I will do anything for you". Give it a try and let me know if she likes it.

 

[seeknoxrun]

I've spent a lot of hours reading and watching videos on leerburg.com. I'm more of a fan of Michael Ellis than Ed Frawley, but I've found useful tips and advice in both their videos and articles.

 

[musicdeb]

I posted this long post and it didn't post it. I'll try it again.

---------- Post added at 08:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:29 PM ----------

Our stories are very similar. Titan and my journey started at the end of Feb 2012. It has been a challenging journey and I’ve encountered some of things you are with your DDB. Titan’s trainer told me that it can take 8-12 months for re-homed dogs to trust their new owners.

Re: feeding time. I experienced the same issue with Titan. He is fed raw so we also had to address “resource guarding.” Titan would sit by his food for 1-2 hours. Per advice from the forum, I started picking up the food and not feeding him again until next meal time. Dogs will not starve if not fed everyday until you regain control of feeding time. We no longer are dealing with the “resource guarding.” YAHOO! Titan also eats when I feed him. No longer have feeding issues.

Re: going outside. I used to have to drag Titan to go outside to potty. Some of the times, I would get so frustrated and just walk away. We no longer have that issue. I’ve learned that Titan will let me know when he needs to potty and he pottys twice a day, in the morning and in the evening. That’s it. I was frustrated because I thought he should potty every 4-6 hrs. Not true.

Re: walking. Titan used to pull constantly but he now walks either beside me or behind me. If he moves ahead of me, I tell him to wait. I shorten the leash to bring him by side and then we continue to walk. It took us 4 months to get to this point.

Like yourself, it used to take about an hour to walk because I would stop to signal to him to stop pulling. I tried the “reverse” walk. When he started pulling, I’d turn around and walk the other way and he would follow. We would then turn back around and do it again. This technique frustrated me because he didn’t respond as well as with the stop and telling him easy. He has started to pull again at the park when he is done walking and wants to return to the car. I make him sit and we stand for a few seconds. I tell him easy and we walk. It takes about 2-3 times for him to walk easy and not pull. We will get there. Patience and consistency is the key.

Re: peeing in the house. There is a homemade solution to remove the urine smell. Search for remove dog urine from carpet. Titan had a small issue with peeing in one spot but it kind of resolved itself. I used the homemade solution to remove the urine smell and he stopped peeing in the apartment.

Re: crate. DDB’s like to guard their family. If she is in the crate at night, which is when Titan really guards me, then maybe leaving her crate door open so she can do her job. Titan goes in and out of his crate all day. He knows that is his room where he can sleep and relax.

Again, it can take 8-12 months for your DDB to start trusting you completely. It takes a lot of patience and consistency. Titan and I are now rounding the corner and seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. He is the best dog I’ve ever had and we will continue on our journey rather it be challenging or rewarding….we will continue…

Hope this helps… Sorry for the long post but I wanted to cover all of your issues and help you based on my experience.

If something doesn’t make sense, please let me know. My brain tends to work faster than my fingers.

 

[musicdeb]

duplicate post...

 

[GibsonSG]

Everything you said makes sense Deb, it's nice to see that somebody else has run into similar situations.

As far as feeding time.... I hadn't thought about her guarding her food..... but I'm not sure that's the issue. The majority of the time if I put her bowl down outside, she will go out and eat right away. Or if I let my beagle out, she'll want to be out in the yard with him, so she'll eat and then go outside. But it's kind of the principle of the matter to me... we've fed her in her crate from day 1. Mostly because the first day that I brought her home, without even thinking about it, I put both dogs' food down outside and she got aggressive with the beagle. It was pretty rough for about a week while they settled in and decided who was who. So, we just put them both in their separate crates and feed that way, and that was just fine for around 4 months and then this started. She no longer has any issue with the beagle being close to her food.... we had to board them for nine days while we went on vacation the first week in June, and I forgot to tell them to feed separately at the kennel because they were being kept in the same one. They said the beagle would just eat all of her food and she would never even bat an eye... they realized what was happening after the first time and fed them separately from then on. Initially I just didn't want to have her go without food very often because we were having trouble putting weight on her (she only weighed 65 lbs when we brought her home) so I wanted her to eat as often as possible. But we've finally found a good food and she's up to 80 lbs, so it's not so much an issue if she misses a meal occasionally so I may go back to just taking her food up if she doesn't get the point for a bit and see how that works out now.

The issue with going outside isn't so much about going potty. They have a dog door and can go in/out as they please, it's more about needing to put her out in the yard for a reason. For instance, up until recently the routine has been to close off the dog door and put them outside for around 15 minutes before bed so they'll both go and not wake us up during the night. Then I let them back in and they both go straight into their crates because they know it's bedtime. But the last few weeks she has been refusing to go out, and then once I get her out she just sits in front of the door and won't move until I let them back in. She still isn't waking us up in the middle of the night to go out, so I guess I shouldn't really be concerned and let her go to bed, it's just a matter of breaking routine. For the most part we're trying to get her to go out because we might be leaving for a bit, or trying to clean the house or something similar where they get underfoot and trip us up... things like that.

I really would like to leave her out of the crate at night... I just don't want to wake up to accidents, or to find that she's been counter surfing, etc... and knowing my luck she would want to sleep in the room with us... and good lord she snores like a freight train! I'd never get any sleep! But I may try leaving her out for a night and see how it goes. That was how she ended up peeing in the room/chewing the stuffed animal... normally we keep that room closed off as it's just a guest room, but that was the room our would be burglar was trying to get into, so I left it open when I let her in and that's where she got into trouble. She does a good job of guarding us even in the crate, she's woken me several times during the night and she definitely had cause to, we've had some shady stuff going on in the neighborhood lately.

I've been thinking it over, and I think I'm going to put the both of them into training next month. We have a local volunteer organization, http://www.spotc.org that does 7 week long classes that promises to teach the basic obedience commands, so I'm sure that couldn't hurt either.

 

[musicdeb]

It's always good to have someone who has experienced basically the same issues and be able to talk about them.

Re: trainer. Make sure they do reward training, you are there for the training and they have trained Mastiff's before, especially DDB's. Mastiff's do not do well with harsh training techniques. They will either shut down and not do a damn thing or they will get nasty.

Please keep me posted on your baby. BTW, what is her name? Do you have pics?

 

[Duetsche_Doggen]

Deb where is the "like" button?

---------- Post added at 12:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:18 PM ----------

I've spent a lot of hours reading and watching videos on leerburg.com. I'm more of a fan of Michael Ellis than Ed Frawley, but I've found useful tips and advice in both their videos and articles.

I like that site too. Very helpful.

 

[Duetsche_Doggen]

I've spent a lot of hours reading and watching videos on leerburg.com. I'm more of a fan of Michael Ellis than Ed Frawley, but I've found useful tips and advice in both their videos and articles.

I like that site too. Very helpful.

 

[GibsonSG]

I'm pretty sure that they do reward training, and I will be present (it's required). I don't however know if they have ever trained a mastiff, and I would be willing to bet they have never trained a DDB. They are not common around here... I've never seen another one, and there isn't a breeder anywhere even remotely close. It does say on their website that they have done everything from toy poodle to irish wolf hound... so you never know. They also train therapy dogs, and do the AKC canine good citizen training/tests, so I think they're good folks. They have a 2000 sq ft heated/air conditioned training facility and host AKC events... place has been around since 1970 so I think they're probably a safe bet.

Surprisingly, the kennel that I found to board them at http://www.dreamlandkennel.com was super excited to see her because they've never had a local DDB before. The owner and his wife are both PHAs and he shows Budda, the #1 AKC DDB right now. http://www.risingstarbordeaux.com/buddha.htm and they also raise Tibetan Mastiffs. I tried to talk him into working with her some but he just flat doesn't have the time, he's always on the go running from one show to the next.

Her name is Jemma and his is Huckleberry, I just realized I don't have any recent pics, these are all from right after we got her and she was underweight and looking puny, but here they are, the first pic with Santa is the most recent... that was 2 months after I got her... all the rest are from the day I brought her home.

---------- Post added at 11:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:22 AM ----------

Ahh, right after I posted I found some more recent pics on my phone:

 

[GibsonSG]

Ahh, right after I posted I found some more recent pics on my phone:

 

[GibsonSG]

Double post, sorry

 

[OdeMX]

Congratulations Musicdeb!

Ditto to the like button notion!

 

[musicdeb]

Nice looking family! Jemma looks like Titan's sister... Jemma and Huckleberry are great names! The training facility you're checking out sounds like it will do good job training Jemma and Huckleberry.

Please keep us updated on Jemma's progress...

 

[GibsonSG]

Nice looking family! Jemma looks like Titan's sister... Jemma and Huckleberry are great names! The training facility you're checking out sounds like it will do good job training Jemma and Huckleberry.

Please keep us updated on Jemma's progress...

She could be his sister for all I know That's the only disadvantage of getting her as a rescue, I know absolutely nothing about her past, where she came from, etc.... All I know is that her owner surrendered her to the humane society here because she had heartworm and he couldn't or wouldn't do the treatment. Then a rescue organization got her, and I got her 2 weeks later. (She just had her 6 month followup test and came back in the clear, all traces of heartworms are gone).

I'm going to try Sadies Mom's suggestion of the Pet Botanics food from petsmart over the weekend and see if I can make any headway with her. I think I've pretty much decided to put them both into training either way, but maybe I can get some short term relief with bribes!

 

[musicdeb]

Titan was born in Germany, doubt they are related, but like you said you do not know Jemma's history. YAHOOOOOO!!!!! Heartworm gone!!!!

---------- Post added at 10:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:08 AM ----------

Deb where is the "like" button?

---------- Post added at 12:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:18 PM ----------



I like that site too. Very helpful.

Like button would be awesome!