Itanhandu expo winner

[aceoutdoor]

The few dogs I ever criticized where usually all at a public show/expo, most where to point out the lack of consistency which you people blindly believe you have, few were to down an individual dog, and those few deserved it, for circling behind their owner during agitation for instance, at a public show/expo…. Again since you seem to miss things that do not support your victim mentality. Like me complimenting the Cafib puppy above.

 

[aceoutdoor]

How does Cafib explain breeding for the larger size? I thought it was all about preserving the real Fila? Why breed for the larger dogs when obviously that is not what Cruz saw on his 2nd trip to observe the farm dogs of Brazil.

Look at most of their dogs 10-15 years ago, nothing like these dogs. Its what people want, and will.....pay for. Its actually a good thing, the more dogs with good structure the better. But the "150lb" winner of that expo would not be what PSC would consider the ideal Fila, at least the PSC at the end of his career when he revised his view of Filas and wrote the everlasting Cafib standard, which should never be changed to suit the needs of breeders and the market.

 

[Bh-k9]

That's why I asked the question earlier about evolving- could it be possible that as time changes not much of a need for a farm type super athletic fila the breed has evolved to not meet the demand of the client base but to meet the needs of the breeders?

Or playing devils advocate here could it be that cafib has took a liking to the larger cbkc fila and wanted to show the cbkc folks they could make it bigger and better? I tend to like these type of for the most part friendly competition in breeds. One side does something the other tries to mimic it but say they created it, then the other side puts a twist on the twist.

The more folks that have been over the seas and live over seas I speak with the more I learn Spanish and broken Portuguese lol and the more I realize this hate is only in the USA.

At the end if the day it's all about the dogs, everyone has an ideal look of what they like. So ace let's see what you like and think is ideal for the fila. If Juan says something to bash a nice looking dog then we know he has a hidden agenda

Someone like myself who is a six year novice/ newb/ rookie/ wet behind the fila ear needs to hear, see, and fully understand both sides of the argument so they can make a educated analysis of chicken sh$ x chicken soup

 

[aceoutdoor]

The more folks that have been over the seas and live over seas I speak with the more I learn Spanish and broken Portuguese lol and the more I realize this hate is only in the USA.

If you are insinuating the "divide" so to speak in Filas in only here and not down south, you are dead wrong. This is nothing compared to what goes on every hour of every day in Spanish and Portuguese on closed groups/forums. Always has, always will.

I like lean, tall muscular but not heavy dogs like the puppy/ young male Kratos pictured above. Truth be told that dog resembles the opposite type more than classic Cafib type. I don't put much stock into looks anyway, I care more about temp and prey drive. Some of the hardest and best dogs I have seen, were no show stoppers. Filas in general are beautiful so most all of them are pleasant to look at, to me at least.

 

[Bh-k9]

I would disagree, internet/ forum politics maybe.. but in person over the phone etc. you hear and see cafib speaking with cbkc and vice versa. They may disagree but conversations are civil and backed with proof pictures and showing of dogs, productions etc.

Cbkc folks in Brazil are using cafib dogs, you speak with cafib folks who say such and such dog has great structure and movement I love the angulation and bone density in the dog which happens to be non cafib.

Im a temp, nerve, drive guy first in any breed I have or work with. My idea of a perfect fila would be the biggest I can get it without compromising hips, and movement, and athleticism. Type one temp and early development of it. I love the houndy long ears and head and ability to jump 6ft high in the air all wrapped up in one dog.

I'd agree whole wholeheartedly that the most impressive filas as far as temp, drive, dominance, civil aggression, etc have for the most part been the ugliest filas I've seen. Skinny, short ears, snippy muzzles, long legs in comparison to body. If I had to choose that our a show stopper I'd go with the ugly duckling all day everyday.

 

[aceoutdoor]

So ace let's see what you like and think is ideal for the fila.

If I had to pic a bodytype I like, this older picture would show it. Black and white but you get the idea.

 

[chuckorlando]

They do the same thing here. Ace has some cafib blood and dogman got his girl from a cbkc breeder (if I recall correct). There are cafibs here on this board that love the idea of cafib's system not just the dogs, and have no issues at all with a good dog from any where. Same can be said with cbkc folks on here. And the majority of folks I would argue dont care nr affiliate with any group at all.

Thats why the best working dogs come from working farms or homes. Or a breeder who is locked in on what ever drive ones looking for IMO. They dont care how pretty the dog is as it's meant to work not prance around a ring.

 

[mountainfila]

Not the prettiest fila but man can this dog move, i prefer the WHOLE package of what a fila "was" , not just lunging at the end of the leash. Filas are so much more but people do not want to put the work into them once they come into temp. This dog will tear the house down just to be by your side if he knows you are with a person, he takes his guarding serious and he cant guard me if he is locked in a crate which makes him even more worked up. But dont think for a second if you were to advance on me he would take you downtown in a heart beat, he is always watching and on guard, which means im always watching him. Yes its a slippery slope but i put alot of time into my dogs obedience wise and take them everywhere. These were farm dogs and roamed loose with the farmer, so i do not believe for one second they were as vicious as cafib claims them to be and i do not believe that they were/ are as big as cbkc breeds them, most of those filas could never work all day in the fields, not a chance. My filas barley hit 125lbs and could run circles around most filas i see nowadays and that includes both sides of the fila fence lol.

 

[chuckorlando]

I agree with you 100%. I think alot of that is people hiding the dog once they go ape shit one good time. The dog never learns that everything is not a threat.

 

[aceoutdoor]

Steve is a very handsome dog and I have always loved his coat.

 

[mountainfila]

Heres a video that marko took like 20 years ago of actual working farm filas in brazil, you dont herd cattle with them on a leash and if they were sooooo aggressive they would just be a liability to the farmer, these dogs pay these men no mind and listens to the owner, anyone care to translate what is being said, quality isnt very good but that was about the start of the digital age back then.


[video=youtube_share;6i1bCnRMszs]http://youtu.be/6i1bCnRMszs[/video]

 

[mountainfila]

Steve is a very handsome dog and I have always loved his coat.

The dog never ever sheds and his coat and skin is like velvet all over, hes a once in a lifetime dog, very cool attitude very easy going but has the devil inside lol, that pic was taken last year, still the same but muscled up a bit more.

 

[Wilrob]

Heres a video that marko took like 20 years ago of actual working farm filas in brazil, you dont herd cattle with them on a leash and if they were sooooo aggressive they would just be a liability to the farmer, these dogs pay these men no mind and listens to the owner, anyone care to translate what is being said, quality isnt very good but that was about the start of the digital age back then.


[video=youtube_share;6i1bCnRMszs]http://youtu.be/6i1bCnRMszs[/video]

it might just be me because I'm using my kindle fire to post right now but I'm not seeing a video

 

[mountainfila]

its a you tube video, it is showing that it is there

 

[Th0r]

Those Filas don't seem as crazy as the ones that normally gets discussed here!
So what happened in the past 20 years that made this breed not tolerate strangers?

Sent from my Nexus 5

 

[mountainfila]

i know marko has cafib blood, i know nothing about those dogs other then they are on a farm with 2 strangers standing talking to their owner , i see the dogs watching them but i dont see any acts of aggression , i see him watching the guy at the end of the video when the guy motions to the dog, the dog was always watching but not paying any attention to them.

 

[dogman#1]

Ace and mountain, both pics posted are of overall well put together and seemingly capable dogs. Lets take that video you posted for a second... todays farms in Brazil cannot be compared to yesteryears farms ie when the fila was used exclusively... these were not farms with people coming in and out like in a farmers market, they were cattle ranches (even today, how many visitors does a cattle rancher get?). These were desolate areas were cattle roamed in hundreds upon hundreds of acreage, the "workers" were slaves...they lived there and the ones that were paid lived there too. This was a different world in which we can only imagine. Yes, that Fila would have a hard time in todays farm but that doesnt mean we have to change it to suit our needs. There are plenty of other breeds that can be docile with strangers yet do farm work and yes, some might even attack if the farm hand gets assaulted but it isnt a fila... this is exactly what the AKC and other clubs have done to other breeds and now they are just hallow shells of what they used to be... look at the crippled warrior (English bulldog) of today...what if we were to preserve that beautiful beast in all its glory or the war dogs like the English mastiff... what are they now? one that couldnt walk down the block without gasping for air and the other that makes a fine pet for children... Im not saying that there is anything wrong with those dogs and I know people love them for what they are today but what we see now is nothing like the dogs of yesterday and it is a sad thing.

One more thing about the dogs being too big for CAFIB.... not true there is a maximum height in the CAFIB standard (that has never been changed) and these dogs do not go over and as big as they are they are still in balance and their presence is in harmony with its structure... thats one of the biggest things with cafib. So in short, no PSC would not have a problem with these dogs.

 

[mountainfila]

You are not changing a fila if it was a farm dog to start out with, your changing a fila by only showing one side of the breed, by only concentrating on one aspect of the breed is changing it , in my eyes. That vid i posted the place does not look like a farm market and it doesnt look like it has lots of visitors either. I guess if you have never had a farm or worked filas on a daily basis , you would not know how they act, i myself have had my filas work for me on my farm, they are very fast learners when its in their genes.

 

[tojvan]

I would just like to say a couple of things. First of this is just 1 video and three dogs out of hundreds, you cant use it to generalize the temperament of the whole breed hundreds of years ago. We also don't know the facts about the video to make any concrete claims, was this their first visit to the farm or second or third; how old the dogs were etc. Now every dog has a baseline with its own individual temperament some are tolerant to a certain degree others are not; we know of 4 different types,( http://www.sombraultrajantefilas.com/documents/dowdyarticle.pdf ). These may very well be the exception than the norm. Now i have lived in a 3rd world country and i can confidently tell you that getting bitten by a dog isn't a big deal; as a child i have been bitten by a dog, my family just told me to shrug it off and avoid the dog next time. I don't think the welfare of a slave is on the masters priority list back in the day, plus they lived in the farms so the filas would get used to them. Another interesting point that may impact the situation is that a fila would be more tolerant without its master, off the property than it would be in the house by its masters side.
I am not saying you are wrong, I'm sure there were some filas that were tolerant and others that were not; I am just presenting a different point of view. Even in cafib I'm sure not all dogs are made equal and the temperament test is provoked, in the dogs mind the owner is threatened and the dog responds with hostility.

 

[mountainfila]

******Quote from group 1 Temp

Responsible owners do
not allow their dog to become an uncontrolled menace of society. Responsible owners
also encourage their dog to learn the difference between true threats and “normal†things
in the world around them. I teach my dogs “that*s enough†command, which basically
gives the dog a chance to “warn†me of something the dog sees as a threat and alert
(growl , bark, etc) but once I say “that*s enough†I expect the dog to settle down. In this
situation, I have determined that I do not see the situation as a threat, even if the dog
may alert. I expect the dog to respond to my training and settle down. ********


So what do people think about this statement at the end of the group 1 temp? To me the dog in the video showed this type of temp, did not go seeking pets and listened to the owner. Im not saying the temp should be toned down , not at all but it can be harnessed , if i dont say anything to my dogs they keep at what ever they are pissed at as soon as i tell them to stop they comply , it takes a few mins but they do settle. So i was also wondering what are peoples view on obedience training seeing these are "dogs" what makes it any different for this breed then any other breed? And like i said before i do not socialize my dogs around people, they are only around and in close contact when you come into my yard and home, and i take my dogs everywhere but they are never around people when i take them out. Like Chuck said when most peoples filas come into temp they lock them up and never do anything with them because they cant handle them and then everything becomes a threat to them. And i also believe that the more bonded you are with your fila the more the dog wants to please you and it makes them very easy to train.