Is it ever okay to growl?

[HecatesKeeper]

Our 4 month old pup has been occasionally growling at the kids. She is really awesome with them 99% of the time. Gets stepped on by the toddler, they will take her toy/bone trying to play with her and she's very docile. However, once in a while she does growl, I'm not always sure why (sometimes it's when they take a non chew toy from her, this morning the baby was giving her a big hug and sort of had her pinned down) and it's usually a very short growl, and. Honestly doesn't sound mean, more like she is talking/groaning, if that makes sense.

She also growls/barks when he hears someone walk up to the door. I'm fine with her barking and alerting me, in fact I would prefer that.
That being said, I'm terrified of raising a mean dog, and I know that the CC's can get aggressive, so that loops back to my question. I read growling of any kind is precursor to biting? Is it EVER okay for her to growl? How should I handle her growling at the kids? Or is it no big deal and I'm over reacting?

 

[Mooshi's Mummy]

You never stop a dog from growling, a growl is a warning, without the ability to warn you leave the dog with nothing but the next step, a bite. After all dogs cant talk, this is their way of talking. Your dog was saying that she didn't like being pinned down and to get off. The very best thing you can do with your children is to teach them 1. to always be respectful to the dog and 2. to listen to the dog, if the dog growls its for a reason and to take heed. Barking/growling at the door is different, she is protecting her territory and that's what these breeds are meant to do. You wont raise a mean dog, don't let the kids give her a reason to growl, its not fair on the dog.

 

[Duetsche_Doggen]

Great points MM :thumbsup:

 

[HecatesKeeper]

You never stop a dog from growling, a growl is a warning, without the ability to warn you leave the dog with nothing but the next step, a bite. After all dogs cant talk, this is their way of talking. Your dog was saying that she didn't like being pinned down and to get off. The very best thing you can do with your children is to teach them 1. to always be respectful to the dog and 2. to listen to the dog, if the dog growls its for a reason and to take heed. Barking/growling at the door is different, she is protecting her territory and that's what these breeds are meant to do. You wont raise a mean dog, don't let the kids give her a reason to growl, its not fair on the dog.

This post makes a lot of sense. Thank you for the response. However, what about when they are "disciplining" her? For instance, yesterday my son took a sock away from her (she really loves socks and she growled, so he got me and when I took it from her she growled and then nipped. Obviously she can't be chewing on socks so we can't just give in....

Any advise there?
I'm new to puppies, we have always adopted dogs a bit older who were already socialized so I feel a bit lost at the moment. Thanks for any advise.

 

[Mooshi's Mummy]

If possible, and until she learns her manners, let the discipline be done by the adults. If I took a sock or whatever from one of my two (Tibetan Mastiff and Akita) and they growled at me, first think they would get is a nice sharp, loud, I DONT THINK SO!! and then a time out, in crate or other room away from people for 1 minute. They need to know, and know for sure, what is and what is NOT acceptable. Once manners are instilled, and they know the rules and the boundaries and your children have been taught how to properly handle these situations then it should be the adults leading by example. Yes, absolutely, the pup needs to follow the rules with everyone but pups can see kids as litter mates. If need be then be by your son when he takes the sock (or what ever) and be there ready to set things straight if they go a little off course.

 

[HecatesKeeper]

If possible, and until she learns her manners, let the discipline be done by the adults. If I took a sock or whatever from one of my two (Tibetan Mastiff and Akita) and they growled at me, first think they would get is a nice sharp, loud, I DONT THINK SO!! and then a time out, in crate or other room away from people for 1 minute. They need to know, and know for sure, what is and what is NOT acceptable. Once manners are instilled, and they know the rules and the boundaries and your children have been taught how to properly handle these situations then it should be the adults leading by example. Yes, absolutely, the pup needs to follow the rules with everyone but pups can see kids as litter mates. If need be then be by your son when he takes the sock (or what ever) and be there ready to set things straight if they go a little off course.

Thanks again for taking your time to respond. Luckily my 5 year old is as big as a football player, so he is fully capable of getting the dog into her crate for a time out, and I am comfortable with him dealing with her. Obviously the toddler can not. For some reason, our trainer only wants us to use the crate as a time out for potty accidents, but I think I might go ahead and use it in these situations as well.

 

[Robtouw]

One thing I preach to dog owners regardless of breed is to constantly remove things: food, toys, etc from your dog's mouth and do it often so that it is second nature and not a surprise. Just walk up, take the item and either walk away or put it away for a few minutes, but give it back after a bit. This should be done with young puppies. It does a couple of things, helps establish leadership rolls, acts as a safety mechanism (if they are chowing on something harmful you have no fear of saving your pup) and it teaches your dog to be respectful of your actions. My husband and I practiced this often with Cruiser as a pup and even had friends, vet, etc do it as well. I can now take anything from him, even if it is deep inside his mouth and all I get is a sad little look with some mumbling but no defensive behavior.

I work with EM's but have little experience with CC's so I can't really guide you on their individual personality traits. But with all dogs you must set boundaries, establish a leadership role and train with other members of your household and visitors for your dog's safety and theirs.

 

[Mooshi's Mummy]

^^yep^^

 

[Mooshi's Mummy]

Thanks again for taking your time to respond. Luckily my 5 year old is as big as a football player, so he is fully capable of getting the dog into her crate for a time out, and I am comfortable with him dealing with her. Obviously the toddler can not. For some reason, our trainer only wants us to use the crate as a time out for potty accidents, but I think I might go ahead and use it in these situations as well.

I am exactly the opposite of your trainer. Why on earth punish for a potty accident? Potty accidents are never the fault of the pup, never. Potty accidents happen because humans aren't paying attention and don't get the pup out on time or often enough. You never punish a potty accident, it only makes it harder and longer to train.

 

[HecatesKeeper]

One thing I preach to dog owners regardless of breed is to constantly remove things: food, toys, etc from your dog's mouth and do it often so that it is second nature and not a surprise. Just walk up, take the item and either walk away or put it away for a few minutes, but give it back after a bit. This should be done with young puppies. It does a couple of things, helps establish leadership rolls, acts as a safety mechanism (if they are chowing on something harmful you have no fear of saving your pup) and it teaches your dog to be respectful of your actions. My husband and I practiced this often with Cruiser as a pup and even had friends, vet, etc do it as well. I can now take anything from him, even if it is deep inside his mouth and all I get is a sad little look with some mumbling but no defensive behavior.

I work with EM's but have little experience with CC's so I can't really guide you on their individual personality traits. But with all dogs you must set boundaries, establish a leadership role and train with other members of your household and visitors for your dog's safety and theirs.

It's funny because we can take ANYTHING from her without trouble; Food, toys, blankets, stuffed animals, she could care less...but a socks are a different story!

 

[Cody]

Thanks again for taking your time to respond. Luckily my 5 year old is as big as a football player, so he is fully capable of getting the dog into her crate for a time out, and I am comfortable with him dealing with her. Obviously the toddler can not. For some reason, our trainer only wants us to use the crate as a time out for potty accidents, but I think I might go ahead and use it in these situations as well.

Regardless of the size of your child it is not his job to discipline the dog, for his safety and the dogs. My son feeds the dogs and helps train them, but I would NEVER allow him to be the one to discipline. He is a child and your dog is young, this is exactly how bad things happen. He does not have the physical control nor the emotional understanding of setting fair, consistent boundaries. By allowing him to do so you are setting them both up for failure. I also would not let my son, or any child, lay on a pup, pinning it so to speak. That is a display of dominance and not comfortable for the dog. My dogs will listen and respond to my 8 year old 100% BUT he has been taught to respect them and they him. It takes time and work for that bond to be fully developed. As for the dog getting "time outs" for potty accidents, why is that? If a puppy goes in the house it is not the fault of the puppy but that of the owner. If you are watching the pup when it is free in the house you will see the signs that it has to go and will be able to get it outside. I have never had an issue house breaking a pup, as I know if it is free inside then it is my responsibility to monitor it to ensure that there are no accidents. To punish a pup for this will make the pup hide when it goes and will also prolong the training. I also never use the crate as any sort of punishment as my dogs crates are their safe places. When they go in there my children DO NOT go near the crates. It is the space a pup can go and be left alone. Not trying to be rude, but this is a Corso and not a Golden Retriever or stuffed toy. They are a dominant breed and as puppies require firm, fair treatment to gain the respect and trust they should have for their owners. It is your responsibility to keep your dog safe from your kids and visa versa.

 

[Mooshi's Mummy]

I used my crate as a time out on the odd occasion and it never had an adverse effect. My two still saw their crate as a safe haven, a den, and would willingly and happily go to their 'house' when it came time for night nights or when I needed them to be there. To each their own, but just wanted to say I did use their crate and never had a problem with it. I also used the bathroom, but as we all know there is toilet paper in the bathroom and that is far to tempting for a young pup!

 

[Cody]

I do know people who use the crate with no trouble, but I have also seen bad reactions from dogs who are crated when in trouble. I think it depends on the dog and the owner, how they are using the crate. I personally don't My issue was more allowing a 5 year old to correct a puppy, that to me seems like an accident waiting to happen.

 

[Mooshi's Mummy]

I would finally add to the OP - if socks are an issue then don't leave socks within striking distance.

 

[Rugers-Kris]

You have recieved some fantastic advice here today and I just want to echo the importance of never punishing for a bathroom accident because MM is right, it will just make it harder to house train and isn't fair to the pup. Also, Robtouw made a huge point that I think is one of the MOST important things with any dog but especially one who will likely outweigh everyone in your household.......TAKE THINGS AWAY OFTEN. Ruger is 19 months old and I can do anything to him and he never balks and that is what you need to have. Not making a big deal of it, you should, quite often, stick your hands in thier bowl while they eat, take toys away, take bones away, check thier teeth......These things teach your puppy that you have the right to have anything they have and avoids the risks of them biting over "stuff". I preach the same about bathing, clipping nails, cleaning ears, etc. I also agree that a child should not ever be allowed to discpline the dog. It is great to keep them involved in training and feeding but the adults should be doing any corrective stuff aside from a "No". I have never used a crate so I can't help you there but it looks like you have some advice on that as well. I meant to mention that I agree that a growl is a good thing and I wouldn't discourage it but you should be trying to avoid situations (Kids laying on the dog, etc.) that force them to have to warn. HOWEVER, it is not acceptable for your pup to be growling when you take something away and that can lead to danger. Good Luck.

 

[angelbears]

Thanks again for taking your time to respond. Luckily my 5 year old is as big as a football player, so he is fully capable of getting the dog into her crate for a time out, and I am comfortable with him dealing with her. Obviously the toddler can not. For some reason, our trainer only wants us to use the crate as a time out for potty accidents, but I think I might go ahead and use it in these situations as well.

Whoa! This is just scary and a disaster waiting to happen. Please read what Cody wrote. Over and over again. In another 3 to 6 months your football player will look like a rag doll compared to how big your pup should get.

 

[Boxergirl]

Really good advice from everyone. I agree with making sure that you can take things away from your dog, but I always make sure that often (not always) I'm replacing those things with better things. Instead of always taking food *out* of the bowl, I often reach in and add food or a tasty tidbit. Just a thought and something that has worked well for me.

 

[HecatesKeeper]

Thanks for the food for thought. I'm going to try to respond with out quoting a million times.
I will consider your thoughts on letting my son discipline her, Cody however,
I want her to see my 5 year old as "higher in the pack" and NOT a litter mate. She needs to respect him, and I really don't see the harm in him removing things she isn't allowed to have. She is small now, and as long as I am supervising I am confidant he is handling it appropriately.

For the record, I don't let my kids pin her down. As soon as I noticed the toddler on her, I remedied the situation. Obviously, my little one needs trained too. Both will take time and consistency. ;-)

As for the potty training, the comments are moot for now, because she hasn't had an accident in days, and is now alerting me when she needs to go. She only ended up in the crate twice for it, so not to worry! No permanent damage seems to have occurred.

We felt bad using her crate as her safe spot because she was terrified of it when she came off the plane. So, her bed is a 6 panel baby gate with a mattress inside. This means, I'm not worried about ruining her "safe place" if we decide to use it for nipping problems.

 

[HecatesKeeper]

Whoa! This is just scary and a disaster waiting to happen. Please read what Cody wrote. Over and over again. In another 3 to 6 months your football player will look like a rag doll compared to how big your pup should get.

Isn't that the reason we establish his leadership while she is young and small??


Edit: I'm not trying to argue, I am truly trying to understand. If she isn't used to him leading her, then how can I trust her when she IS 100 lbs?

 

[Duetsche_Doggen]

One thing I preach to dog owners regardless of breed is to constantly remove things: food, toys, etc from your dog's mouth and do it often so that it is second nature and not a surprise. Just walk up, take the item and either walk away or put it away for a few minutes, but give it back after a bit. This should be done with young puppies. It does a couple of things, helps establish leadership rolls, acts as a safety mechanism (if they are chowing on something harmful you have no fear of saving your pup) and it teaches your dog to be respectful of your actions. My husband and I practiced this often with Cruiser as a pup and even had friends, vet, etc do it as well. I can now take anything from him, even if it is deep inside his mouth and all I get is a sad little look with some mumbling but no defensive behavior.

I work with EM's but have little experience with CC's so I can't really guide you on their individual personality traits. But with all dogs you must set boundaries, establish a leadership role and train with other members of your household and visitors for your dog's safety and theirs.

I agree with this! You can do this everyday with simple things offer the pup something "better" in exchange for what the pup has in its mouth. I use the command "drop it" quite a bit. Also agree what Cody wrote.