HELP: Titan lunged today and I almost lost it

[musicdeb]

I've been working on stopping Titan's lunging towards men and other dogs. This morning while walking, the maintenance guy was at the dumpster. I saw him and stopped Titan and stood in front of Titan. We said good morning to each other and Titan heard his voice. He pulled in front of me and wanted to run to the guy. He did one bark. I told Titan to leave it, which usually works, but didn't this morning. He continued to pull and pulled me with him. I finally got a hold of his collar and pulled him in front of me and told him to sit. I had to tell him 3 times to sit, which he did on the 3rd attempt. The poor guy is already afraid of Titan and he saw that Titan pulled me towards him.

After Titan was in sit and maintenance guy left, we continued to walk. I told Titan he was a bad boy and when we returned to the apartment he immediately went into his crate.

Any tips or suggestions on what to do with training him to stop the lunge? He's never liked either maintenance guy and I can usually walk by them unless they talk to me. Sometimes Titan will ignore them even if they talk to me.

God, is Titan part Fila?? JK, I know he isn't.

I need help because this morning scared me. I almost lost control of Titan.

HELP!

 

[Rugers-Kris]

I am so sorry, Deb. That is scary. Ruger was (is) big on lunging but only if someone is in the strike zone. As a rule I just keep people out of that 4 foot zone but on the occasion that we have to be closer, I put him in a sit and he listens really well. This sounds like he is lunging well outside any "zone" around the two of you. I have never dealt with that since as long as no one comes into his "zone", he just doesn't care what they are doing. He is aware of them but doesn't appear to be. Maybe as soon as someone approaches, put him in a sit and correct him when he tries to move or act out and stay there until they pass? I don't know if you have already tried that but that is how I started it with Ruger when he first came into his temperament and just stayed vigilant until he basically ignored people that were out of his zone. Ruger really does think he is a Fila so I treat him as such. He is allowed a zone to react but nothing more except at home where is free and is guarding the house, the yard and the people. I do understand how scary that must be. The biggest fear when dealing with giants.....If they ever decide to ignore you completely and use brute strength to do as they choose,

 

[mx5055]

There are people way more knowledgeable than me to answer/advise you, and I know you rescued Titan, and that he probably has "special" issues, but there is one thing I would like to offer up. You say Titan doesn't like men (and that's probably because of something that happened in his past, and that may be something that isn't going to change), but you also said he really doesn't like the maintenance guy...I have had dogs in the past that took a particular dislike to an individual (usually a man), and I've come to realize through the years, that even though I didn't know what the reason why was, that it might be best if I trusted my dog and avoided that person. When I moved into the house I rent now about 2 years ago my adult boxer took an immediate and very apparent dislike to the 20 something year old guy next door, and I was really baffled, because Max usually loved someone, or he just ignored them. But he was adamant about this guy, and so vocal and threatening with his growling that it got to the point that before going out front to sit on the porch or get into the car with Max I made sure this guy wasn't out there. Well, now I've been here long enough, and I know why...Max was way smarter than me and caught on right away...this guy is a dope dealer, there is domestic abuse going on next door, and the police are there at least once a week. I guess what I'm trying to say, is maybe you need to follow Titan's lead and avoid this guy. Or, if it is just all men, do you have to take Titan to that area where the guy is? Could you maybe walk him elsewhere and work on his leash without such an obvious trigger present? I don't know....just some thoughts....

 

[ruthcatrin]

Do you still walk Titan with his muzzle?

Is he reacting this badly to anyone else or just this one guy?

 

[musicdeb]

Thanks Cindy and Kris! The guy was about 10 ft from us and he wasn't approaching me, he was putting garbage in the dumpster. Titan will often times ignore both maintenance guys when they are that far way but not this time. I forgot to mention that right after the incident, a black guy (which Titan hates black men more than any other man) went to the dumpster and Titan ignored him but I did have Titan in sit and he was faced away from the dumpster.

When I see a man approaching us, I make Titan sit and look at me. I tell him it's ok and to look at me. This works 95% of the time.

Cindy, you are right. Titan will not step back when he doesn't feel that it's ok even after I tell him. When he continues to watch the person or continues to want to get the person, I know that something could be wrong with the person. I then move Titan away and we both leave the area as Titan and I continue to watch him.

 

[musicdeb]

Do you still walk Titan with his muzzle?

Is he reacting this badly to anyone else or just this one guy?

I only use his muzzle when we go on play dates to meet a new dog or go to the vet.

He usually lunges at any man if they are within 10 feet of us, especially if they talk to me or Titan or stare at Titan. I will ask the person to please ignore us and Titan will calm down after we move away from the person.

Re: maintenance guys. They both are terrified of Titan because of his size. Could he be sensing their fear that is causing him to lunge at them?

 

[ruthcatrin]

Re: maintenance guys. They both are terrified of Titan because of his size. Could he be sensing their fear that is causing him to lunge at them?

Yup, their fear could be making it worse.

I think what I meant to ask. From your description this guy was more than the 10ft radius? And was he having any other issues lately with other men outside of that radius?

 

[Rugers-Kris]

I think their fear plays a very big part in it. There is a little guy that comes over to our office a couple times a month. He is a real sweet, nice guy but got attacked by a pit bull a few years back and is incredibly scared of big dogs so you can imagine what I giant dog does to him. Ruger will actually growl as soon as he can see him, no matter how far away he is.......I can make him sit and stop but he never takes his eyes off of him and if I am not vigilant he will start the growling again. I feel horrible for the guy and I make Ruger stop but I am absolutely positive that it is because of the fear that Ruger does this because normally he doesn't care at all about people that don't near us.

I only use his muzzle when we go on play dates to meet a new dog or go to the vet.

He usually lunges at any man if they are within 10 feet of us, especially if they talk to me or Titan or stare at Titan. I will ask the person to please ignore us and Titan will calm down after we move away from the person.

Re: maintenance guys. They both are terrified of Titan because of his size. Could he be sensing their fear that is causing him to lunge at them?

 

[musicdeb]

I'm guessing on 10 ft, it could have been more. The more I think about it, it probably more like 20-30 feet away from us.

When we walk in the complex and if men walk on the other side of the road or walk in front of us, he's ok, unless they turn around and interact with us.

In fact the other day, while walking an hispanic guy came out of nowhere and walked in front of us. Titan saw him and ignored him. At the park this week, Titan saw a black man walking towards us. I took Titan away from the man and Titan ignored him.

I thought fear played a part in it because a guy who lives above me told me that he was afraid of Titan too. When Titan sees him, Titan ignores him unless the guy talks to me. Then sometimes Titan will continue to ignore him or Titan will turn around and look and want to lunge. The guy usually hides behind his car when he sees Titan.

I guess Titan's strike zone is 20-30 feet. That really sucks. As I stated, Titan usually ignores men unless they talk to us but again the men are closer than 50 feet. Oh God, I have to keep people 40 feet away.

I do tell people who stop in their cars to look at Titan, I ask them to keep driving and not to talk to us. I continue to walk away. People in the complex must think I'm the biggest bitch. Well, I can be...

 

[Rugers-Kris]

Yeah, that is pretty big strike zone! Yikes. Hopefully with more work, you can shrink that. I stop people short of getting to the strike zone and I walk Ruger on a 4 foot leash and he does exceptionally. I have decided that I will give him the 4 feet if he gives me peace otherwise. LOL

I'm guessing on 10 ft, it could have been more. The more I think about it, it probably more like 20-30 feet away from us.

When we walk in the complex and if men walk on the other side of the road or walk in front of us, he's ok, unless they turn around and interact with us.

In fact the other day, while walking an hispanic guy came out of nowhere and walked in front of us. Titan saw him and ignored him. At the park this week, Titan saw a black man walking towards us. I took Titan away from the man and Titan ignored him.

I thought fear played a part in it because a guy who lives above me told me that he was afraid of Titan too. When Titan sees him, Titan ignores him unless the guy talks to me. Then sometimes Titan will continue to ignore him or Titan will turn around and look and want to lunge. The guy usually hides behind his car when he sees Titan.

I guess Titan's strike zone is 20-30 feet. That really sucks. As I stated, Titan usually ignores men unless they talk to us but again the men are closer than 50 feet. Oh God, I have to keep people 40 feet away.

I do tell people who stop in their cars to look at Titan, I ask them to keep driving and not to talk to us. I continue to walk away. People in the complex must think I'm the biggest bitch. Well, I can be...

 

[ruthcatrin]

hmmm, from what you're describing it sounds like 10ft normally but more if there's other issues, which unfortunetly you have no way to spot. I'll think on it, I'm not sure what else to tell you try off the top of my head.

 

[musicdeb]

I was thinking, the guy was in the golf cart the office uses. Titan hates the golf carts. I've been racking my brain out to find out why he reacted the way he did because he meant business this morning which hasn't occurred in a very long time. Maybe it was the combination of the guy and the golf cart.

Thank you Ruth and Kris for all of your input.

I just hope it never happens again because I almost lost control of Titan. When I see the golf cart, I always divert his attention to another area or we move rather quickly so he doesn't see it. I didn't think about the golf cart until a few minutes ago.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Could be!

 

[chuckorlando]

With Kona for a long time I would actualy have to sit her then squat face to face, grab both sides of her head and keep her focused on me. Good girl, be a good girl, thats a good girl. As a pup up to about 8m she was manageable. From 8m to maybe 13m she had 100ft strike zone. Thats when I would have to get in her face. Anyone inside that zone except the folks she seen come and go everyday like neighbors was a huge threat and she was determined to handle it. Now she is much much more manageable. So maybe you could try making him look at you while you get face to face so to speak. Dont allow his focus to wonder.

 

[musicdeb]

Great tip, Chuck! I have had to get right in his face one other time to make him look at me. I'll do that again if this ever happens again. Which I'm sure it will.

Damn it... I hate it that I have a dick for a dog because this morning kinda scared me.

I'll just keep on keeping on...

 

[ruthcatrin]

If you have to walk him with his muzzle for a few weeks. If nothing else it'll give you a sense of security that he CAN'T bite someone if it comes down to it.

 

[chuckorlando]

I also used a collar and leash ans a harness and leash. The harness had a handle. Keeping the loop on my wrist and lead wraped in my hand. That way if it slips you have a fail safe. If you see a potintial problem slide down the lead to the handle. Much easier to hole them, lift their front legs, or make them sit that way. With two leads you can spread your arms and legs and lean back. and usually hold them or they lift their self off the ground.

I really dont know nothing bout non of this. But these are what I did when I had a maniac.

 

[JacksTheDog]

I have dealt with this once before and you need to be careful that if you do the whole face to face thing and tell them to be good you do not unintentionally reinforce a hyper-vigilant or anxious dog. They may associate you telling them to be good with good dog and not get the message that the behavior they have in mind is not ok. when I was faced with this situation I went to using a pinch collar but this cannot be thrown on and expected to work right away the dog may not be familiar with the collar and hurt himself due to improper usage of the pinch collar. I would introduce the pinch collar in a controlled environment allow Titan to learn that pulling with a pinch collar on is not desirable. You should use small corrections to teach Titan that any type of pulling while on a lead is unacceptable give him a small sharp fast flick with the pinch collar to achieve this goal anytime he pulls hard enough to lift your arm.

 

[mx5055]

Great tip, Chuck! I have had to get right in his face one other time to make him look at me. I'll do that again if this ever happens again. Which I'm sure it will.

Damn it... I hate it that I have a dick for a dog because this morning kinda scared me.

I'll just keep on keeping on...[/QUOTE

Awe Deb...I know it was scary this morning, but I also know you really don't think he's a "dick"...you love him to death You rescued him and have given him a wonderful, safe, loving home...kudos to you! He has issues, it would be abnormal if he didn't; but you know what they are, and you can work with it...I've got total faith in you I also think Chuck's suggestion was a great one. Just be alert, and keep the faith

 

[ruthcatrin]

I like the idea of adding a harness with a handle. That'd give you an extra handle to grab in an emergency, and an extra leash in case of failure.