Thank you April.She's beautiful
I have to say that if I were going to have a DDB, Marke would be the breeder I'd want if he'd have me. I've never questioned his love for, and knowledge of, his breed.
Since purchasing my Corso I have heard multiple stories of what is being put in them, from Pitbulls to Great Danes, neither of which would do any good for a guard dog. Although I got very lucky with mine and my research in getting a solid not only guard dog, but also a watch dog. I am not confident enough in getting another. I will stick with the Holland KNVP Dutchies moving forward as you know they are serious highly trainable dogs.
One could only imagine what putting Pitbull into Corso would do as far as making a dog docile. Pitbulls will never be guard dogs and would destroy the Corso breed all together making them super friendly and also unpredictable at times, far from a solid guarding ability. I am also hearing Boxer but old Boxer was being put in way back in Europe. Its for this reason today we are seeing such a brutal difference for example in mine from Bens dog which appears to be a happy go lucky friendly type dog that happens to be a Corso also. Although I would never purchase another Corso, I am happy that I specifically asked for working line when looking to purchase, otherwise I would feel stuck with another golden, not stuck but actually robbed. Had I known this breed was so screwed with I would have walked away back then.
A good example would be this thread, you have Ben who says he knows 30 Corso that are nothing like a good solid skilled guard dog (supposed to be natural). Then you have myself who also knows several Corso that are in fact like the Corso with supreme guarding skills. So there is a situation where Corso is being changed and confusing people with huge variations in skill or type. While I know all dogs are different, this breed should at least have similarities in performance which obviously it no longer does. Now its a crap shoot on whether or not you get what you paid several thousand dollars for. DNA testing is a good way to see if you got Pitbull or any other non guardian blood in their.
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Considering Moloser breeds to be anything like a Pitbull is just wrong. Here is a list of Molosser breeds and their primary skill. Listing Cane Corso and DDB as guard dogs. Pitbull is nowhere near the list. There is a reason why Pitbull dogs are only 500.00 and Mastiff are in the thousands, absolutely no comparison and if breeders are introducing Pitbulls into their mastiff dogs selling them as mastiff, it can only destroy the breed and the reliability.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molosser
Right but it at least gives an idea that Molosser breeds are born with guarding ability. I went through the list and the only dog that surprised me on the list that I didn't know was molosser was Rotty. I cant stand anyone comparing Mastiff with Pitbull as there is zero comparison in the two. It is degrading especially to DDB a supreme still to this day guard dog.Wikipedia is not something I would reference as an accurate resource of anything. Anyone can post any information, correct or not in regards to a subject. The breed was more than just a guard dog, it was a breed that was bred to be versatile and do whatever the owner required...it is what makes them easy to train and work with.
I am very surprised you breed DDB. You should know the difference between guard dogs and trained protection dogs. You can train a poodle to be a protection dog and Pitbulls are very trainable. Corso and Bordeuax on paper are supposed to be the 2 most guardian dogs in the world aside from their cousins, presa, tibetin ect.
your surprised ????
i'm guessing I do know the difference , a trained protection dog got about a 75% chance of protecting you , natural "guard dogs" got about a 10% chance of guarding anything other than themselves , not that possibly something else might get guarded as a side effect ………
not sure what pitbulls your familiar with , but I've known lots of folks bred , trained and titled non-traditional protection dogs , and most all of them had some pitbull in their dogs , some were pitbulls , those dogs don't quit ….anybody in Europe breeding "bandogs" ?? in 2017 I believe 24 adults were killed by dogs in the U.S. , 21 of them by pitbulls , I assure you none of them were trained …… over the last 2 decades 2/3rds of the people killed by dogs were killed by pitbulls , rotts being a far far distant 2nd ……...
here's some quotes from david hancock 's book "The Mastiffs: The Big Game Hunters - Their History, Development and Future"
https://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obido...96231/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_0_1/202-3861416-0478222
"Even 2,000 years ago, in many parts of the world, the success of the hunting dogs was, for their human owners, the difference between eating or starving. Powerful heavy hounds were invaluable in times when, before the invention of firearms, man needed to catch and kill big game."
"The hounds of the chase can catch up with and then 'bay' the quarry, but the 'killing' or capture dogs have to seize and hold it. This was the task of the mastiffs, with their enormous physical strength, immense courage, considerable fortitude and the remarkable gripping capabilities afforded by their mighty broad mouths. "
"As a broad-mouthed breed, each mastiff breed belongs to a brave and distinguished group of dogs. Their instinct to seize and hold their quarry was prized by man down the ages. Man was a hunter before he was a farmer and powerful hunting dogs were the difference between living and dying before the invention of firearms"
" The life-threatening task of seizing the prey fell to the 'holding dogs', huge determined dogs of reckless courage and immense neck and jaw strength. "
" From their employment by primitive hunters to pull down or 'hold' or pin large animals needed by the hunters for meat and skin to their use as watchdogs and protection dogs in more recent times, the mastiff breeds have long served man, many losing their lives in doing so. Huge wild creatures such as aurochs, bison, boar and stags are formidable adversaries; only the mastiff breeds had the courage, strength, agility and fortitude to tackle such quarry. Moral judgements made today on hunting cannot diminish the remarkable physical and mental qualities of dogs expected by man to fulfil a function in times when man either hunted successfully or starved. We should respect the heritage of the mastiff breeds and then honour it by breeding healthy, virile, physically powerful but mentally stable dogs, for that is their historic mould. "
perro de pressa are hunting fighting dogs everywhere they are found , ca de bou , presa canario , I believe cane corso was once known as "cane da pressa" ? I think that might translate to something like gripping dog ? as in catch dog ? cane corso history pretty much mirrors America's American bulldog ………….
Steven , i'm way past estimating …………… I know what they're capable of , I've had to prove it many times ….. I have a video of one of my dogues running I believe 9 miles in like 50 minutes on u-tube …….. the bitch in the earlier black and white pic could run 6 miles in 30-35 minutes on an 80 degree day without the slightest issue …….. I had one I took out one early spring day , it was warm , when we got done I found out it was 79 degrees , we ran 6 miles in around 35-40 minutes , she weighed 159lbs ………. the bitch pictured below ran 20 miles with me in 3 hours , she waited on me …… my house never been broke into , and I've lived in some nationally ranked crime riddled neighborhoods ….
they been putting pitbulls in dutch shepherds since the 1970's that I've heard ……...
Steven , i'm way past estimating …………… I know what they're capable of , I've had to prove it many times ….. I have a video of one of my dogues running I believe 9 miles in like 50 minutes on u-tube …….. the bitch in the earlier black and white pic could run 6 miles in 30-35 minutes on an 80 degree day without the slightest issue …….. I had one I took out one early spring day , it was warm , when we got done I found out it was 79 degrees , we ran 6 miles in around 35-40 minutes , she weighed 159lbs ………. the bitch pictured below ran 20 miles with me in 3 hours , she waited on me …… my house never been broke into , and I've lived in some nationally ranked crime riddled neighborhoods ….
they been putting pitbulls in dutch shepherds since the 1970's that I've heard ……...
Steven , i'm way past estimating …………… I know what they're capable of , I've had to prove it many times ….. I have a video of one of my dogues running I believe 9 miles in like 50 minutes on u-tube …….. the bitch in the earlier black and white pic could run 6 miles in 30-35 minutes on an 80 degree day without the slightest issue …….. I had one I took out one early spring day , it was warm , when we got done I found out it was 79 degrees , we ran 6 miles in around 35-40 minutes , she weighed 159lbs ………. the bitch pictured below ran 20 miles with me in 3 hours , she waited on me …… my house never been broke into , and I've lived in some nationally ranked crime riddled neighborhoods ….
they been putting pitbulls in dutch shepherds since the 1970's that I've heard ……...
How's Enzo doing, Ben?
Enzo still growls at anyone coming through the door. He stops immediately as soon as he recognizes someone.
If we introduce outside, he stops growling as soon as we tell him enough, get his attention, and tell him "friends" (overly positive). If we have that person walk him in with the leash, we don't get anymore growling. Unless he falls asleep and is woken up by the new person's voice. We have not tried coming inside without being led by the new person.
If we introduce inside, we usually have to separate him to his kennel, because he does not calm down as quickly. When he calms down, he is allowed to join us, and he does not growl again.
In all cases he is very cautious around the new people, which I don't mind at all. I'm hoping with all the continued positive interaction he will become more and more confident as we have been seeing in his body language lately. I am slightly worried that this becomes a fear of new people, and we end up with a bigger issue on our hands, but for now it seems like we are moving in a good direction.
Targeting training has already been useful in day to day life. We just got him to target my daughters hand across the room. We will keep practicing this, and hopefully this is another tool we have in our box for introductions.
After thinking about all of this quite a bit, and what we might have done wrong in the beginning. I've realized that when we met Enzo he was a very confident puppy. Even the breeder has asked what happened to change him. I personally don't think he has changed at all. As part of his pack (2 sisters, grandma, and dad) he was confident because they were confident as a group. He was not forced to meet anyone on his own as far as I know. We have also been dealing with a bit of separation anxiety. Broke the bars in his old kennel to get out.
From birth he was always in his pack, and with us someone is always home. I'm thinking getting him at 6 1/2 months is part of the issue, and the other part was that we were slow to realize the difference between socialization outside the home and inside the home, and we should have been making it more of a point to leave him alone more.
I've attached an image of Enzo in his new kennel. You can clearly see the scabs on his nose from his last escape. He's already chilled out so much more being left in his new kennel while we leave. I think just thinking that he can't break out of this one has him not attempting it at all. We also have been making it a point to leaving for short periods of time and coming back.
In the end Enzo is progressing very well, and I am so grateful to all that have helped.
Thanks,
Ben