Culling... yay or nay

[dogman#1]

O.K so the topic was brought up on a different thread and I would like to hear some other people's thought on this... For those of you that don't know what culling is it is the process of eliminating certain characteristics (or reinforcing others) in a breed... ie, a cur APBT would be culled so it would not "pollute" the gene pool with that undesirable trait (I am speaking of old times) or a slow racing grey hound if you will or even an unstable dog. This would ensure that only the characteristics that are desired get passed along and no "mistakes" happen later on with the undesirable dog. BTW culling can mean "fixing" but generally means putting the animal to sleep.

 

[voidecho]

I'd vote for just fixing the dog.

 

[ruby55]

I don't believe in the practice of culling. A sterilized dog who does not meet the needs of my breeding program can still be of use, whether it's a working dog or simply a kid's pet. I think that if I'm responsible for bringing that dog into the world, I'm responsible for seeing that it has a good life. And I would do whatever I could to make sure that happens.

 

[AKBull]

I don't believe in the practice of culling. A sterilized dog who does not meet the needs of my breeding program can still be of use, whether it's a working dog or simply a kid's pet. I think that if I'm responsible for bringing that dog into the world, I'm responsible for seeing that it has a good life. And I would do whatever I could to make sure that happens.

Exactly. If I took the time to bring it into this world, then I would do the humane/responsible thing and sterilize it. Not a future problem for what I'm looking for, and I don't needlessly kill.

 

[joshuagough]

I found you a good looking Neo pup today, pot stirrer'

I'd side with spay or neuter, no reason to put a pup to sleep if it's physically healthy IMO.

O.K so the topic was brought up on a different thread and I would like to hear some other people's thought on this... For those of you that don't know what culling is it is the process of eliminating certain characteristics (or reinforcing others) in a breed... ie, a cur APBT would be culled so it would not "pollute" the gene pool with that undesirable trait (I am speaking of old times) or a slow racing grey hound if you will or even an unstable dog. This would ensure that only the characteristics that are desired get passed along and no "mistakes" happen later on with the undesirable dog. BTW culling can mean "fixing" but generally means putting the animal to sleep.

 

[dogman#1]

really, no reason? an unstable dog, a structurally unsound dog, a weak nerved dog (fear biter)...really, no reason at all? so you would obviously keep all of theses in a kennel since they can either hurt themselves or someone else, right? It can even be a young dog that when taken for hip checks comes out with hip dysplasia... you want that dog to grow and live in pain for the rest of its life or maybe give it away and give someone else the headache and expense or maybe put it down for its own good and for the good of the breed so that it doesnt have a mistake? that is a hell of a life for an animal just so someone can say they are humane.

 

[joshuagough]

The conversation of culling would be around puppies typically?

Given the fact you should be training them from a young age.. you shouldn't end up with the issue's you mentioned, regardless of the breed.

If you can't fix the issue, find a trainer that can help you. I know some that given a true "need" would do it for free.

really, no reason? an unstable dog, a structurally unsound dog, a weak nerved dog (fear biter)...really, no reason at all? so you would obviously keep all of theses in a kennel since they can either hurt themselves or someone else, right? that is a hell of a life for an animal just so someone can say they are humane.

 

[jcook]

really, no reason? an unstable dog, a structurally unsound dog, a weak nerved dog (fear biter)...really, no reason at all? so you would obviously keep all of theses in a kennel since they can either hurt themselves or someone else, right? that is a hell of a life for an animal just so someone can say they are humane.

I have never heard of this term before so I am very curious. I do know that people would euthanize old racing dogs that are no longer used for racing. But is culling referring to putting down dogs that they simply dont want to breed? it is still considered culling if you put down an overly aggressive dog that cannot be rehabilitated and who therefore live an awful life in a kennel? My breeder had a dog that was amazing looking but had bad hips and he still kept the dog he just didnt use it in his breeding program. Now, my sister had a dog that was just mentally unstable, she did tons of training and the dog was still just not right. Two vets said the dog had some sort of psychological problem and that the dog will always be aggressive (it kept bitting the kids, it was a small dog though). The dog lived in its crate and it was just awful. It was a weird mix and a was result of a back yard breeding where the people just thought "this will be a good mix". She couldn't give it up for adoption because it was registered as an aggressive dog. She decided to put it down. As sad as the situation was, i supported her decision.

is my sisters situation similar to culling?? i am confused lol

 

[joshuagough]

It's different depending on what kind of animal your talking about.

In the breeding of pedigreed animals, both desirable and undesirable traits are considered when choosing which animals to retain for breeding and which to place as pets. The process of culling starts with examination of the conformation standard of the animal and will often include additional qualities such as health, robustness, temperament, color preference, etc. The breeder takes all things into consideration when envisioning his/her ideal for the breed or goal of their breeding program. From that vision, selections are made as to which animals, when bred, have the best chance of producing the ideal for the breed.

Breeders of pedigreed animals cull based on many criteria. The first culling criterion should always be health and robustness. Secondary to health, temperament and conformation of the animal should be considered. The filtering process ends with the breeder's personal preferences on pattern, color, etc.

I have never heard of this term before so I am very curious. I do know that people would euthanize old racing dogs that are no longer used for racing. But is culling referring to putting down dogs that they simply dont want to breed? it is still considered culling if you put down an overly aggressive dog that cannot be rehabilitated and who therefore live an awful life in a kennel? My breeder had a dog that was amazing looking but had bad hips and he still kept the dog he just didnt use it in his breeding program. Now, my sister had a dog that was just mentally unstable, she did tons of training and the dog was still just not right. Two vets said the dog had some sort of psychological problem and that the dog will always be aggressive (it kept bitting the kids, it was a small dog though). The dog lived in its crate and it was just awful. It was a weird mix and a was result of a back yard breeding where the people just thought "this will be a good mix". She couldn't give it up for adoption because it was registered as an aggressive dog. She decided to put it down. As sad as the situation was, i supported her decision.

is my sisters situation similar to culling?? i am confused lol

 

[jcook]

okay, so culling doesnt have to mean death right? it can mean sterilization as well?

 

[joshuagough]

Yes, It can mean either or both, depends on who you ask.

okay, so culling doesnt have to mean death right? it can mean sterilization as well?

 

[jcook]

Yes, It can mean either or both, depends on who you ask.

I see. thank you for clarifying.

 

[dogman#1]

Correct, culling is taking out of the gene pool one way or another.

Joshua, we are not talking about training issues on anotherwise healthy correct dog, we are talking about issues that cannot be corrected, ie weak nerves, bad hips, DA or HA (depending on breed these can be bad things)... things like this are genetic and not enviromental and while they may be able to be softened with therapy, training etc it takes but a split second for them to revert back. lets take a fear biting dog... train it to hell, obedience it to hell... would you keep that dog with your family? would you give it to another family? I wouldnt but these characteristics could be seen WAY earlier during puppyhood and the breeder decided not to cull... in this situation cull is euthanized not spaying IMO.

 

[joshuagough]

We've been working with a foster female rescue, who's 4 years old and show's signs of being beat, along with a lot of other issues.

Snappy to my pack the first week, snappy to a group of dogs we socialize our others with. Over the course of a month, she's accepting to our pack without restraint. She has also done a 180 in behavior towards the group we meet up with. Seen the same with aggression towards people.

I'm pretty bull headed in believing a dog given a chance can make the turn. That doesn't equate to them being place in an unqualified home, this is a case by case situation.. so I can't generalize my answer as you've laid out the question.

The cases in which a dog would need to be euthanized due to "unrepairable damage" are few & fair between.. the only issue is time & money. Compounding this problem there are a lot of dogs that are raised in unhealthy situations.

Correct, culling is taking out of the gene pool one way or another.

Joshua, we are not talking about training issues on anotherwise healthy correct dog, we are talking about issues that cannot be corrected, ie weak nerves, bad hips, DA or HA (depending on breed these can be bad things)... things like this are genetic and not enviromental and while they may be able to be softened with therapy, training etc it takes but a split second for them to revert back. lets take a fear biting dog... train it to hell, obedience it to hell... would you keep that dog with your family? would you give it to another family? I wouldnt but these characteristics could be seen WAY earlier during puppyhood and the breeder decided not to cull... in this situation cull is euthanized not spaying IMO.

 

[dogman#1]

Joshua... read my post again. you are comparing apples to oranges. I am not talking about a dog, that due to its environment became a certain way. I was referring to something a dog was born with, a genetic defect if you will. Weak nerves isn't a trained behavior, unstable dogs may be made but there sure are some that are born.

 

[chuckorlando]

If it's not a threat to my family, no. The rest of the world be damned. I can keep them safe as long as it's not a threat to my family. That would mean I would'nt put down a pup till it was big enough to know it was un fixable bad. Or if the pup had a health issue that would lead to a bad and painful life

 

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

I think it depends entirely on the situation and what the quality of life would be for the puppy. I don't judge people that do it as it isn't an easy decision for most of them and I can see their reasoning. There is a huge discussion about this going on involving some corsi kennels at the moment, a puppy was born with a cleft palate (not a huge issue, some surgeries and it is fixed and can be a great pet and that is what was done), surgeries were done to repair and as the dog is still with the breeder they start to notice some mobility issues. The dog was taken in and xrays performed and several other test and it was determined that this puppy also had neurologic issues (potentially linked to its developmental issues like the cleft palate). It was determined the puppy was in no pain from the deteriation of its mobility, it just didn't look pretty. So they offered up this dog for free to any home that understood the issues associated with it, well now this breeder is being torn to shreds because the dog's mobility has continued to get worse, it looks like the back end was turned around and put on in the wrong direction and this dogs back is so roached that there is probably less than 12 inches between the front and back legs. Now the breeder didn't know that the dog would continue to get worse like this and she didn't know that when she saved the cleft palate puppy that it would have these issues that most when seeing the dog would say it should have been put done humanely at birth.

So in the end it is a personal decision, I don't judge those that do it for a valid reason (and colour unless it causes a serious health problem like the merle gene or overo gene in horses is not a valid reason) but I think if the dog can still live a good quality of life then it is a spay/neuter and it becomes a pet.

 

[cwayaustx]

When it could be a potential safety issue for families(children) or the dogs or if the dogs would live a painful miserable life due to defects abnormalities I think it is an evil necessary.

---------- Post added at 08:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:28 AM ----------

What about culling of irresponsible pet owners/breeders? too bad thats illegal..

 

[cwayaustx]

What about culling of irresponsible pet owners/breeders? too bad thats illegal..

 

[northernmastiff]

I don't believe in culling when it comes to appearance. A lot of breeders still cull the black and tan labs which I think is wrong. Many single women love to purchase these labs because it gives them an easy to handle dog that many people mistake for a rottie. I do believe in culling if it means a slow agonizing death for the puppy. There are some conditions where the puppy won't last for more than a few days or even few weeks. It can't be reversed with surgery and the quality of life for the puppy is so low if it can be reversed that the puppy will spend a life in pain. Then I believe in culling completely. Then again, I also believe in abortion when a bitch gets pregnant with a undesired or whoops litter. When a bitch gets pregnant by accident, you don't have to bring the puppies into the world. I actually believe it is more responsible not to bring the puppies into the world since many of puppies from those accidental breedings find their ways into kill shelters. So what is worse, ending the litter in the womb or letting the puppies arrive, breath life, feel a few weeks of love, maybe even a few months or years, before they are abandoned, left abused and destroyed and then placed into a box and gassed while the dog feels complete terror in those final minutes.