Cesar Millan's training techniques?

[esaudio]

Oh, I see. Well, I meant by Cesar Millan's kind of training, if applied to a child, I would agree that it is unacceptable but for a dog, with the pack mentality, it just seems fine. I can see why some people find it a bit tough or rough, but I do not really think it is as bad so as to traumatize an animal. It does not seem like animal abuse to me in any way.

 

[Boxergirl]

Oh, I see. Well, I meant by Cesar Millan's kind of training, if applied to a child, I would agree that it is unacceptable but for a dog, with the pack mentality, it just seems fine. I can see why some people find it a bit tough or rough, but I do not really think it is as bad so as to traumatize an animal. It does not seem like animal abuse to me in any way.

I understand what you are saying, but the alpha/dominance theory has been debunked. There are other ways to accomplish certain training goals that don't use the methods observed in some of the videos. Dogs know that humans aren't just big dogs. That doesn't mean that my dogs don't have to respect me. They most certainly do, but I am a calm and fair leader. As to whether the dogs are traumatized by the techniques used - that largely depends on the dog.

Give this link a look. It's the first one that comes to mind with videos. If nothing else, you may find it interesting.
http://drsophiayin.com/philosophy/dominance
BTW, I'm not positive only trainer. I prefer a balanced approach and each dog requires a different method.

 

[Bailey's Mom]

It seems people are saying that Holly would attack if she was eating. I am pretty sure it means if you got near her while she was eating which is still a very bad situation, dog get PTS for less than that. But Boxergirl is spot on the money. CM provoked that dog into attacking. The posture and poking the dog in the neck was meant to cause an attack.

Devils advocate thought. This would be the same activity a young child would be doing to a family dog while it was eating.

Regardless, I don't like his methods.

Your Devil's Advocate comment is sharp and to the point! I've got 27 stitches in my head that stands as testimony. I nearly lost an eye, I have visible scars across my right ear. I was three, my hand touched the dog's head while it was begging for scraps. It wasn't intentional, I was just running my hand across a bush and my hand fell and touched his head. He ran me down in the street...I Remember This Vividly! I remember the owner dragging the dog off and running with me to my house. I remember them holding cloths to my head and them pulling them away blood soaked. Thankfully, I passed out and I was kept out for the rest.

I never blamed the dog. Could the dog have been trained better, you bet! Did I or anyone else ever trust this dog again around food? No. Would the dog have been put down in today's world, yes. Back then the adage was that a dog got one bite free, after that death. And here's where the rubber meets the road: This could have happened to that child!

One further thought, if CM had challenged the dog and the dog hadn't presented the way the owner's had described, but had only been confused, backed off and growled, then the dog, I suggest, would have been rehabilitated, but that's not what happened, the dog red-zoned, went into battle mode. It finally, backed away, but never really backed down. With a child it would have been a mauling. This dog would never have been suitable for a young family. How would you ever know this without attempting to produce the response? You Wouldn't.

27 stitches, the scars run from my right eye up through my scalp, down behind my ear and across my ear lobe which was re-attached. No anthropomorphism here, reality bites and so does this dog.

 

[cayeesmom]

I agree with everything you have said ewlizbat. The dog did not show her "true color" until she got provoked, he was down low at the dog's level like a small kid would have been and even though the dog had plenty of room to choose "flight" she chose bite.

 

[teodora]

i agree with some of his techniques... and there are others i don't believe in. CM is pretty good in training humans. Not so good with ALL dogs, though. Or maybe he is - and he does "mistakes" just for the sake of the show, who knows?

 

[esaudio]

I understand what you are saying, but the alpha/dominance theory has been debunked. There are other ways to accomplish certain training goals that don't use the methods observed in some of the videos. Dogs know that humans aren't just big dogs. That doesn't mean that my dogs don't have to respect me. They most certainly do, but I am a calm and fair leader. As to whether the dogs are traumatized by the techniques used - that largely depends on the dog.

Give this link a look. It's the first one that comes to mind with videos. If nothing else, you may find it interesting.
http://drsophiayin.com/philosophy/dominance
BTW, I'm not positive only trainer. I prefer a balanced approach and each dog requires a different method.

Thanks so much for the info. I will definitely look at it.

 

[season]

I love Cesar....and for those that think "all positive dog training" is the answer then they are clueless.

 

[season]

Leerburg Dog Training | The Problem with All-Positive Dog Training

 

[CeeCee]

There is an episode where he worked with Patti LaBelle's Boerbel.

Did you have any problem using his techniques with a mastiff of some sort? I have never seen CM with any of those huge breed dogs, except for a Dogo Argentino *I posted the video here. The biggest I saw him deal with were a couple of German Shepherds which were pretty dangerous when he got them.

I would love to see him dealing with any kind of mastiff to see how he goes about it.

 

[Boxergirl]

I love Cesar....and for those that think "all positive dog training" is the answer then they are clueless.

I may be mistaken, but I haven't seen anyone stating that all positive is the way to go. I use corrections in my training, when they are necessary and only after I know the dog understands what he or she is supposed to be doing. And then the correction is tailored to the temperament of that particular dog. There is good and bad in every training technique. There is no one size fits all.

 

[Bailey's Mom]

I may be mistaken, but I haven't seen anyone stating that all positive is the way to go. I use corrections in my training, when they are necessary and only after I know the dog understands what he or she is supposed to be doing. And then the correction is tailored to the temperament of that particular dog. There is good and bad in every training technique. There is no one size fits all.

Right! We lead with love, with intelligence, with creativity and with the help of those who have gone before us (offering insight and direction) there is really no "one size fits all", we all strive for the best outcome. When Bailey steps outside the bounds of acceptable behaviour, she feels my wrath. My anger really upsets her. She wants my love, not my anger or cold, calculating management. I lead with love...for the most part, it works, but she's docile, less reactive, for another more excitable dog,.a different approach is required. My 27 stitches still inform me. As much as I love dogs, I wouldn't take ANY chance on Holly the dog. If I were CM or the parents, I would have pushed the dog to see its true colours, I wouldn't have signed off on this animal. Too much was riding on it.

 

[Bailey's Mom]

There is an episode where he worked with Patti LaBelle's Boerbel.

I saw this episode, it is branded on my brain. I saw that dog jump up and punch a screen door with his paws, collapsing it! Such brute strength!!! LaBelle was afraid of the dog. CM got her to get close to the dog, he had her sit in the next door kennel and let the dog get used to her, sniffing her, without establishing eye contact. I really don't know why she had such a powerful animal, but, I suspect the "South African Mastiff" was a decoration, much like a leopard coat or a Zebra rug.

I wonder what happened to it....?

 

[Lilliput]

Ewlizbat, from what I've read he passed away in the spring of last year.

 

[cj-sharpy]

To be honest I've been watching a lot of his shows on YouTube an while I disagree with poking, and hissing does absolutely nothing, he did make me decide to try a slip lead rather than harness and head gear. Ad it works. I also use his tap the hind quarters technique and that works too. As long as you catch the dog before it gets "there". Also he mentioned making sure the dog focused on you at feeding time an not on the food. After only a few days of refusing to give his bowl until he focuses on me I've seen improvement in his impulse control and in his recall.

So some of what CM says and does is good.
But Hollywood version of it is not so great.


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[DMikeM]

Someone adopted the BB Nasir and he lived a normal life outside of a cage.
Susan Rosetti: Nasir from the is Alive and Well

He was a couple years old in 2007 so he may have passed on by now 8 years later.

 

[season]

To be honest I've been watching a lot of his shows on YouTube an while I disagree with poking, and hissing does absolutely nothing, he did make me decide to try a slip lead rather than harness and head gear. Ad it works. I also use his tap the hind quarters technique and that works too. As long as you catch the dog before it gets "there". Also he mentioned making sure the dog focused on you at feeding time an not on the food. After only a few days of refusing to give his bowl until he focuses on me I've seen improvement in his impulse control and in his recall.

So some of what CM says and does is good.
But Hollywood version of it is not so great.


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His "poking" technique serves the same purpose as tapping the backside. All he's doing is snapping the dog out of whatever it was fixated on before that. Changing the focus. And the "hissing" as you call it does work the same way the physical touches do.....I use all three and they all work.

 

[cj-sharpy]

His "poking" technique serves the same purpose as tapping the backside. All he's doing is snapping the dog out of whatever it was fixated on before that. Changing the focus. And the "hissing" as you call it does work the same way the physical touches do.....I use all three and they all work.

Okay, hissing does nothing with my dog. Just his name is more effective.


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[NYDDB]

At the end of the comments section of the article you posted, DMikeM, it said that Nasir passed away in March of 2014---at almost 13 years old.

Apparently he had a good life since he was adopted...

 

[Bailey's Mom]

I'm happy Nasir was able to spred his wings in another person's care. The poor animal was acting out. Talk about a mismatch. LaBelle should have had a dust mop type, not a dog raised to defend against lions.

 

[DMikeM]

Typically caged animals are just that. Animals, there is no pet in them, just fear, boredom and hate.