Cesar Millan's training techniques?

[esaudio]

There is an episode where he worked with Patti LaBelle's Boerbel.

Thanks so much! Amazing how he helped that dog!

 

[masteneo]

IMO, Cesar Milan's training is based on fear not positive reinforcement which is a better mode of training a mastiff. You'll see that a lot of forum members do not adhere to his training methods.

Mastiff do better with positive reinforcement. They can feel your emotions, so if you are anxious or afraid they will kick into protection/guardian mode. If you are frustrated with them, they will shut down and stop listening to you. Mastiffs require consistency in training with motivational rewards and LOTS of patience. When they hit the teenage stage (10-12 months), you may want to add a bottle of whiskey for you not the pup to the training regiment.

ooddly enough , you just nearly quoted cesar in your reason for not using him. sounds to me like you listen to too many other people and haven't actually watched any of his indepth stuff. but hey, sounding cool out weighs actual information. just saying..

 

[season]

ooddly enough , you just nearly quoted cesar in your reason for not using him. sounds to me like you listen to too many other people and haven't actually watched any of his indepth stuff. but hey, sounding cool out weighs actual information. just saying..

^^^ Touche'....my thoughts exactly.

 

[season]

Cesar is all about energy. Positive reinforcement isn't about giving treats every time your dog does something good or shower them with verbal praise just because they took a poop in the right stop. I get the need for positive reinforcement but some people think that's all you need and that's so far from the truth its ridiculous. Sometimes a dog needs a good firm, believable correction to snap them out of their behaviors. It's not mean. It's not abuse. It's nothing different then a mother would do to her pups if they were acting up. They used their energy and teeth. No words.

If more people watched Cesar (and others like him) and followed his lead we'd have a lot less problems with dogs and better dog leaders all together.

 

[season]

Your Devil's Advocate comment is sharp and to the point! I've got 27 stitches in my head that stands as testimony. I nearly lost an eye, I have visible scars across my right ear. I was three, my hand touched the dog's head while it was begging for scraps. It wasn't intentional, I was just running my hand across a bush and my hand fell and touched his head. He ran me down in the street...I Remember This Vividly! I remember the owner dragging the dog off and running with me to my house. I remember them holding cloths to my head and them pulling them away blood soaked. Thankfully, I passed out and I was kept out for the rest.

I never blamed the dog. Could the dog have been trained better, you bet! Did I or anyone else ever trust this dog again around food? No. Would the dog have been put down in today's world, yes. Back then the adage was that a dog got one bite free, after that death. And here's where the rubber meets the road: This could have happened to that child!

One further thought, if CM had challenged the dog and the dog hadn't presented the way the owner's had described, but had only been confused, backed off and growled, then the dog, I suggest, would have been rehabilitated, but that's not what happened, the dog red-zoned, went into battle mode. It finally, backed away, but never really backed down. With a child it would have been a mauling. This dog would never have been suitable for a young family. How would you ever know this without attempting to produce the response? You Wouldn't.

27 stitches, the scars run from my right eye up through my scalp, down behind my ear and across my ear lobe which was re-attached. No anthropomorphism here, reality bites and so does this dog.

yes!

 

[Boxergirl]

I'm not trying to get into a pissing contest here, I'm really not. But Season, you keep regurgitating the same things with nothing other than Leerburg links to back you up. No one way is the only right way. This thread - it's not even so much about Cesar Milan anymore. It's about showing anyone reading that there are many training options available to them. At least that's what it's about to me. When I was involved in Boxer rescue, I worked with many rescue dogs and "rehabilitated" them using various methods. Not once did I roll a dog or choke them out and their behavior was very similar to what Cesar was dealing with. Did I correct? Sure. When it was appropriate. I used, and still use, many tools. Including a prong collar and a clicker, depending on the situation and what I wanted to accomplish. An open mind is a wonderful thing and everyone benefits from it. Here is an interesting link that, in my opinion, doesn't bash Cesar's methods but gives pretty concise explanations about why the author disagrees with him. It's a pretty decent read.

http://4pawsu.com/cesarfans.htm

 

[Brinsdad]

I have seen a lot of his shows and got some of his books , I think some of his ways are good and I think positive reinforcement ways of training are also good but dogs are like humans in respect that there not all the same and what works for some doesn't work for others , is good and bad in all training techniques u have to find what works best for you and your dog
Love or hate him think we all can agree that what he is trying to do for pit bulls etc is brill coz it is down to the owners not the breed


No love like a bully love

 

[season]

I'm not trying to get into a pissing contest here, I'm really not. But Season, you keep regurgitating the same things with nothing other than Leerburg links to back you up. No one way is the only right way. This thread - it's not even so much about Cesar Milan anymore. It's about showing anyone reading that there are many training options available to them. At least that's what it's about to me. When I was involved in Boxer rescue, I worked with many rescue dogs and "rehabilitated" them using various methods. Not once did I roll a dog or choke them out and their behavior was very similar to what Cesar was dealing with. Did I correct? Sure. When it was appropriate. I used, and still use, many tools. Including a prong collar and a clicker, depending on the situation and what I wanted to accomplish. An open mind is a wonderful thing and everyone benefits from it. Here is an interesting link that, in my opinion, doesn't bash Cesar's methods but gives pretty concise explanations about why the author disagrees with him. It's a pretty decent read.

http://4pawsu.com/cesarfans.htm

I share what works for me and do what works for me. If it isn't broke I don't fix it. And since you had to proclaim that you didn't "want to get into a pissing contest" I immediately tuned out the rest of what you had to say. I never get into back and forth with people. I state my case and let the others get wound up about it....which in this forum many do. Not me.

 

[Boxergirl]

I share what works for me and do what works for me. If it isn't broke I don't fix it. And since you had to proclaim that you didn't "want to get into a pissing contest" I immediately tuned out the rest of what you had to say. I never get into back and forth with people. I state my case and let the others get wound up about it....which in this forum many do. Not me.

It's a shame, really, that because of one single line you would tune out completely. We're all here to learn from each other.

 

[cj-sharpy]

Oh god this one has turned in to a pissing contest.
1st. When you have a point to make then making it in a calm rational way will make others want to listen. Being rude will make people assume your a prat and ignore your advice, good or bad. So please people lets all be pleasant to each other.
2nd. Love him or hate him Cesar does get results and he has saved many a dog. I prefer positive reinforcement and have tried that first and foremost with everything I've wanted max to do. And it's worked a treat. Sit stay wait etc. the things I DONT want him to do (attack people, snarl, etc) positive didn't work so well. So I watched a lot of Cesar and tried his techniques. Some worked some didn't.
Removing fear, positive reinforcement is working. Slowly.
Acting in fear aggression, Cesar's method of a tap to distract is working. Slowly.

Some of what he does Max can happily ignore such as the hiss and yes I do think he Cesar can go to far for the cameras but every side has to stories. Is he winding the dog up for TV or is he finding it's breaking point so that he can correct from the worst point.

I'm new to Mastiff breed and defiantly threw myself in at the deep end taking on Max. But I can say that with out Cesar and the people in this forum (in equal measures) we'd not have made the progress we have.
Take what you want and leave what you don't.

Hugs and tea and good vibes to you all.


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[masteneo]

I think my post at 5am without back meds might have started a fat fire with some urine and flinging of poo. I am sorry gang. not my best post .

 

[esaudio]

Well, let-s take the example of this boerboel mentioned before. This singer had hired a trainer who had been with this animal for 2 years, YES , TWO YEARS without getting results. Cesar went there and in a few days rehabilitated that dog. So he may not have the best approach in the eyes of many, his method may be old school or even from the school of hard knows, as he has no formal training for what i have read and heard, but.. he does get results. I am sure there are other approaches, styles, etc and that is great! We can choose whatever works for US and for our own interpretation of what-s best for our dogs. And it-s all about trial and error and getting results that go in line with our views.

 

[LizB]

I think these are all good points, and many of us are more on the same page than we think.

In the case of the LaBelle BB, the trainer she hired was working on the DOG, which, in fact, wasn't really the whole problem. If she works with the dog for years, but Patti remains terrified of the dog, keeping it in a kennel and away from her and her daily life, then the dog will certainly pick up on that set of emotions (regret over getting the dog, pity for the dog that must be kept in a way that Patti did not originally intend, guilt, etc.), or "energy," and respond accordingly, continuing the cycle and not improving. The problem was really with Patti more than the dog, and that was what Cesar was able to bring to light. Many dog trainers miss this important piece.

Fortunately, this particular dog was apparently resilient enough to respond and be rehabilitated, but not all would be. Those are the ones that Cesar has to take away to his "center" and replace it with one of his own dogs, that is "better suited" to the person. I always wonder about that....

 

[season]

Well, let-s take the example of this boerboel mentioned before. This singer had hired a trainer who had been with this animal for 2 years, YES , TWO YEARS without getting results. Cesar went there and in a few days rehabilitated that dog. So he may not have the best approach in the eyes of many, his method may be old school or even from the school of hard knows, as he has no formal training for what i have read and heard, but.. he does get results. I am sure there are other approaches, styles, etc and that is great! We can choose whatever works for US and for our own interpretation of what-s best for our dogs. And it-s all about trial and error and getting results that go in line with our views.

Touche

 

[DMikeM]

I never saw that he rehabilitated the Boerboel. If he had then Patty would have been able to keep him. Instead the dog went to one of CM's staff members and was rehomed for the rest of his life.

 

[LizB]

The BB had to be rehomed because he couldn't rehabilitate PATTI. This was not a good fit for her and I don't think she ever got over being frightened of him. The dog never would have done well with her.

 

[cj-sharpy]

I watched that one on YouTube.
Put a dog in a cage for its whole life and approach it in a state of fear every now and then. Yup that won't go well.
Take dog out for walks and live it and pay attention. Yup that will go well.
I was surprised the trainer didn't pick up on that earlier and tell La Belle


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[esaudio]

He did rehabilitate the BB but the singer did not want it any more. She was still afraid of the animal, but it was not the dog at all but her.
Check this out:
Susan Rosetti: Nasir from the is Alive and Well

 

[season]

And at least she was able to finally realize that. That's one of the greatest things Cesar does is show people that 99% of a dog's issues is them and their lack of leadership.