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[Bean]

Sorry, I had a chance to read the remainder of the posts. I did not know how much it had escalated. I know your pain, and I am so very sorry. Is there any chance of the dog being adopted out to rural area? I know it's probably a long shot... But a different environment might help? Good luck in whatever decision you make.

 

[CeeCee]

I am so sorry you are in this place. My heart breaks for you and Xerxes. ...No, Zeek never bit anyone.

Was Zeek actually biting people that he knew well? Xerxes is.

In both bites where he connected with the hand and left holes, the petting was soft, slow strokes. Not patting or anything invigorating. In some of the snaps where a connection was not made due to me being fast enough to grab a collar, the petting was also slow and calm. He approaches in a friendly manner and then bam... total switch. He has snapped several times without any petting taking place too and every time, he has approached the person in a calm and friendly manner.

He is not happy being stuck in my room all the time but I have no other choice. I won't risk the kids getting hurt in order to study his body language looking for the subtle signs. He has not shown any of this towards the kids but he always enjoyed my mom until he turned on her, so I won't risk it, not even muzzled, he could knock them flying with how fast and hard he lunges.

It's like living with a loaded gun being waved around all the time.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Sorry, I had a chance to read the remainder of the posts. I did not know how much it had escalated. I know your pain, and I am so very sorry. Is there any chance of the dog being adopted out to rural area? I know it's probably a long shot... But a different environment might help? Good luck in whatever decision you make.

Rural or not is not the problem when the dog is out of the blue biting people he's known well and had no problems with. Contrary to popular myth a "rural farm" is NOT the solution to pretty much ANY dog problem....

 

[vadersmom]

I just sat down and read this all the way through. I cannot imagine what you are going through. Just know, that in the time you have had Xerxes, that he had the best and most loving home ever. He has to know how much you love him and how much you want this to work. At the end of the day, he just cannot be happy. He has to be so troubled by the actions he cannot control-you know that this behavior is not how he wants to be. Our dogs want us to be happy and safe. That is their nature and reason for being in our lives. I will be thinking of you and your family this week.

 

[Mamacast]

Rural or not is not the problem when the dog is out of the blue biting people he's known well and had no problems with. Contrary to popular myth a "rural farm" is NOT the solution to pretty much ANY dog problem....

I would have to agree, no matter how rural there is always the opportunity for humans to be on the property, so much risk given the history, that was something we weren't willing to chance.

 

[rdryan]

When the rescues I contacted were not willing and the behaviorist held out little hope, I realized that re homing him would be irresponsible. As much as I would rather he have a life than not, I want him to have a happy life and for people to be safe. This is not a 15 lb dog, nor is it a predictable problem, so the potential for damage and more bites to occur is way too high. He is miserable being kept away from me for most of the day, every day. So his life is not and could not be happy no matter where he is.

This is not a decision I made lightly and when I pull back the emotion and think about it for what it is, I believe this is the best thing for him and for the people he may come into contact with. Even though it hurts like hell for me, it is the best thing.

I want to thank everyone on this forum for all the help, the suggestions, the support and the encouragement. When the time comes that I open myself up to another dog and that time will come, no doubt, it will be a Mastiff that I go searching for (even with his issues and the heart break, I have come to love the other qualities of this group of dogs) and I will return here to share stories and pick all your brain's some more.

 

[cinnamon roll]

I hope that you continue to post on the forum. Dog or no dog we want you to stay.

We will continue to be here for anything you might need.

 

[Mamacast]

I admire your courage, it will get better it's just the process you have to walk through.

 

[Bean]

I would have to agree, no matter how rural there is always the opportunity for humans to be on the property, so much risk given the history, that was something we weren't willing to chance.

Let me rephrase. I am not suggesting you ship the dog off to a farm and problem solved. I have dealt with this exact issue myself and actually worked with numerous trainers and behaviour specialists and the problem persisted. It was neurological and magnified by other health conditions and medications. Long story short, I had to make the difficult decision of putting my dog down for a medical complication involving his kidneys and bladder. But, I could not put him down despite the fact that he would bite without provocation when ppl (including family members) would pet him. He had sent my grandmother to the hospital for 8 stitches over an incident involving food. He bit my father and my mother for clapping him on the butt. We simply provided him with a life that no other home or shelter would. He received exercise, was fed, got medical care but we had to be very responsible to have him muzzled when ppl were over, and we made sure to institute the no talk, no touch, no eye contact rule. Contrary to popular belief, only providing love and affection will cripple the dog even more and create other more serious issues. The reason I suggested a rural setting, with a RESPONSIBLE owner is because it seemed you were at your wit's end and I would hate to see a dog put down without exhausting all options (I'm not saying you're not, and this is not meant to offend you, forums are unfortunately very difficult to communicate over because you cannot convey tone of voice) my heart truly goes out to you because I've been there and the decision is very difficult. The rural, or suburban setting is much safer only because you have more liberty with the dog, and a lesser chance of running into problems with strangers. It is not, for the chance of being misunderstood again, a solution by any means, rather one possibility.

What about Cesar Milan?

 

[Bean]

Rural or not is not the problem when the dog is out of the blue biting people he's known well and had no problems with. Contrary to popular myth a "rural farm" is NOT the solution to pretty much ANY dog problem....

Please see other message.

 

[rdryan]

I have exhausted all my options. This isn't something I take lightly. Thanks for the input but finding someone responsible who is willing to take on a 140 lb dog that will bite his family members is next to impossible. Not sure what you meant about only providing love and affection.... that isn't the case here. This is not a case of a dog being spoiled and not disciplined or trained etc. My house is a busy one with people coming and going and that is not about to change in the near future. Hanging onto a dog and subjecting him to a life confined to one room most of the time is not much of a life.

 

[Hector]

I have exhausted all my options. This isn't something I take lightly. Thanks for the input but finding someone responsible who is willing to take on a 140 lb dog that will bite his family members is next to impossible. Not sure what you meant about only providing love and affection.... that isn't the case here. This is not a case of a dog being spoiled and not disciplined or trained etc. My house is a busy one with people coming and going and that is not about to change in the near future. Hanging onto a dog and subjecting him to a life confined to one room most of the time is not much of a life.

Thank you for being a responsible pet owner and taking on all the responsibilities that others have failed him since the beginning. It takes a lot of courage and unselfishness. I just wish there were more pet owners like you.

 

[ruthcatrin]

What about Cesar Milan?

Urm....no. No CM. especially not for a guardian breed who has this sort of issue.

Seriously? What do you think CM is going to do, choke him unconcious like he did that wolfdog? Oh I know. Try to force him to be alpha rolled. That'll fix him. Obviously he doesn't know his place in the pack.....

Dude, I live rural. Not only does living rural NOT mean a reduction in people INVITED onto the property, I have more problems with UNINVITED guests than I ever did in the city.

This dog is biting a FAMILY MEMBER who he's seen REGULARLY. He is, bluntly, unstable. Urban, suburban, or rural is not going to affect that. Sure, in a rural setting they could build him a kennel away from the house. But in case you missed it he's already unhappy and becoming more stressed with just being shut away briefly. And being forced away from the few people he's bonded too will only be worse, AND make that sort of random attack more likely.

 

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

I am sorry that this is the situation you find yourself in You have put more time and effort into him then most anyone else would likely have tried. Never feel guilty about the tough decision you have had to come to or that you have to justify your actions to anyone, you are the one who has to worry about your family members and grandkids to ensure their safety.

When you are ready for another mastiff, there are a couple of us in your region if you are looking at rescue that can help you find one that would work for your home or if you want to look at breeders, will help out there. His being bred by a BYBer doesn't make his temperament what it is (unstable) but his breeder breeding parents clearly showing those issues as well should have been a clue what they would get. They should be more than ashamed for not telling you the history from the start! Unstable dogs are not just a product of BYBers, there are just as many big names in a lot of breeds that have those unstable dogs as well and many BYBers who's dogs end up more stable than dogs from those top kennels.

 

[cayeesmom]

Rehoming a big aggressive dog like a Mastiff is very hard to do, especially if they show the potential to bite "the hand that feed them". Unless your are close friends with the new home ,you have no idea if their situation changes down the line, and they in turn rehome the dog without disclosing the problems. And I would think at a rural setting it would be higher risk of someone get bit since you might think it is "safe" to let him run and play outside until someone comes up your driveway asking for directions. or the mailman forgot to deliver a package . JMO

 

[Bean]

Urm....no. No CM. especially not for a guardian breed who has this sort of issue.

Seriously? What do you think CM is going to do, choke him unconcious like he did that wolfdog? Oh I know. Try to force him to be alpha rolled. That'll fix him. Obviously he doesn't know his place in the pack.....

Dude, I live rural. Not only does living rural NOT mean a reduction in people INVITED onto the property, I have more problems with UNINVITED guests than I ever did in the city.

This dog is biting a FAMILY MEMBER who he's seen REGULARLY. He is, bluntly, unstable. Urban, suburban, or rural is not going to affect that. Sure, in a rural setting they could build him a kennel away from the house. But in case you missed it he's already unhappy and becoming more stressed with just being shut away briefly. And being forced away from the few people he's bonded too will only be worse, AND make that sort of random attack more likely.

Not sure if I'm reading your tone correctly, but it seems a bit aggressive, and unnecessarily so. I am simply trying to offer advice, and anecdotal help. No need to become pushy.

Also, with regards to Cesar Milan, say what you will but his fundamental belief of exercise discipline affection has proven effective in all guardian and working breeds I have owned.


rdryan- I am not saying you spoiled your dog and that you have not exhausted options. Like I said earlier, written advice tends to be scrutinized very easily because only certain points stand out and leave much room for interpretation. I am just trying to offer advice or help. Agree or disagree, that is the wonder of opinions. They are like assh*les, everyone has one

 

[Bean]

"This dog is biting a FAMILY MEMBER who he's seen REGULARLY. He is, bluntly, unstable. Urban, suburban, or rural is not going to affect that. Sure, in a rural setting they could build him a kennel away from the house. But in case you missed it he's already unhappy and becoming more stressed with just being shut away briefly. And being forced away from the few people he's bonded too will only be worse, AND make that sort of random attack more likely."

Also, incase you didn't read my entire comment, I said it would be best to continue working with the dog, but changing the way in which the interactions take place.

 

[rdryan]

Agree or disagree, that is the wonder of opinions. They are like assh*les, everyone has one

I actually laughed out loud at that. Haven't laughed in days.
I have no problem with your opinion. I just wanted you to understand that I have done everything I can think to do and have thought out how best to deal with this based on current situations. It has been an emotional and stressful week and I am a little on the touchy side right now.

 

[rdryan]

"Also, incase you didn't read my entire comment, I said it would be best to continue working with the dog, but changing the way in which the interactions take place."

How would you change the way the interactions take place?

 

[Bean]

I actually laughed out loud at that. Haven't laughed in days.
I have no problem with your opinion. I just wanted you to understand that I have done everything I can think to do and have thought out how best to deal with this based on current situations. It has been an emotional and stressful week and I am a little on the touchy side right now.

I completely understand. When my previous cc started displaying unpredictable aggressive outbursts, I also became worried, anxious and emotional. Unfortunately, that made the problem worse. My dog would sense the anxiety and react accordingly, unfortunately anxiety and fear in dogs tends to be the worst type of aggression because it's highly unpredictable and takes a lonnnnngggg and consistent approach to rehabilitate. You need to first change your emotional state, which is sometimes impossible because we're only human after all. There is hope however. I say this because the way my dog reacted with me (while I was anxious) was very different than the way he reacted with my fiancé (who was much more calm assertive). I say this with a grain of salt however because due to the medication he was on, it affected his temperament drastically. Which meant we had to limit cuddles and kisses because, aside from myself, others couldn't read his mood and foresee a bite. Because I had seen the progression, I could pin point exactly when he was about to strike. So when I say change the interaction, it means bare necessities that the dog requires and love and affection only at the right times. It's a very hard thing to implement successfully, bc we can't help but feel sorry for our dog aka family member, but that same empathy makes the problem worse ...