Which one?

[Geisthexe]

I am not going to be doing any guarding at all. Just companion and obedience.

With that in mind what is the next step in the progression from "away" to send?

Ben I do not want to hijack OwlSong post as it is not about send / away.

 

[Smart_Family]

Let's be mindful of the rules guys. No attacking someone's choice of breed. It's fine to say you don't like the breed but no name calling please!

 

[Robtouw]

FYI, Robtouw is a girl not a guy!

Second, my mastiff boys are energetic and at times drive you crazy with xtra energy bursts! Cruiser has an hour out to play first thing in the morning after I pry him from the couch, a 1/2 mile walk at lunch, second walk around 5pm, constant playing/romping until about 7:30 pm, last walk before bed around 9:30 pm. They tend to become laidback around age 3.

 

[Geisthexe]

Let's be mindful of the rules guys. No attacking someone's choice of breed. It's fine to say you don't like the breed but no name calling please!

Christina .. I am sorry I wasn't trying to attack a breed ..

---------- Post added at 11:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:55 AM ----------

FYI, Robtouw is a girl not a guy!

Second, my mastiff boys are energetic and at times drive you crazy with xtra energy bursts! Cruiser has an hour out to play first thing in the morning after I pry him from the couch, a 1/2 mile walk at lunch, second walk around 5pm, constant playing/romping until about 7:30 pm, last walk before bed around 9:30 pm. They tend to become laidback around age 3.

Welcome to the girls club .. didnt know you were a gal ..

 

[Geisthexe]

FYI, Robtouw is a girl not a guy!

Second, my mastiff boys are energetic and at times drive you crazy with xtra energy bursts! Cruiser has an hour out to play first thing in the morning after I pry him from the couch, a 1/2 mile walk at lunch, second walk around 5pm, constant playing/romping until about 7:30 pm, last walk before bed around 9:30 pm. They tend to become laidback around age 3.

Welcome to the girls club .. didnt know you were a gal ..

 

[Bloke]

get a neo mastiff like mine they have "zero drive" since today i went home to let them out at lunch and two of them didnt even bother to get off the couch (they are not sposed to be on anyway) and the little one took about 15 steps from the front door and laid down!

 

[Geisthexe]

Apex CCs:
Castle Guard:
Windy Pine:
Firehorse:
About Time:

Well I can say this about the breeders .. ALL are show dogs, not all do health testing from what I can tell. a couple have a little amount of PP titles on one or two dogs NOR MORE. One of the Kennels I know there main male they have that is now sitting at there sister kennel and I would never get a dog out of that dog .. but thats my opinion bc I tested the dog personally. I will not state the kennel name on here nor the dogs name. PERIOD

If I had to go with a Kennel out of the five it would be one of two .. Apex or firehouse ..

But in my opinion I would go and keep searching for a kennel that actually works there dogs .. only showing does not make them a working dog .. not to mention just b/c they have folks who have went out and worked there dogs doesnt mean they are breeding working lines.

Might want to find out about the kennel that Vulcan is out of .. I know Vulcan and he is an awesome working dog and I know there is others out of that kennel that have worked.

 

[OwlSong]

Apex CCs:
Castle Guard:
Windy Pine:
Firehorse:
About Time:

Well I can say this about the breeders .. ALL are show dogs, not all do health testing from what I can tell. a couple have a little amount of PP titles on one or two dogs NOR MORE. One of the Kennels I know there main male they have that is now sitting at there sister kennel and I would never get a dog out of that dog .. but thats my opinion bc I tested the dog personally. I will not state the kennel name on here nor the dogs name. PERIOD

If I had to go with a Kennel out of the five it would be one of two .. Apex or firehouse ..

But in my opinion I would go and keep searching for a kennel that actually works there dogs .. only showing does not make them a working dog .. not to mention just b/c they have folks who have went out and worked there dogs doesnt mean they are breeding working lines.

Might want to find out about the kennel that Vulcan is out of .. I know Vulcan and he is an awesome working dog and I know there is others out of that kennel that have worked.

that is great info, thank you!

NO disrespect but the AMBULLY is the worse breed created .. why anyone wants one I do not know ... gives me the shivers just thinking about it.

you must not be looking in the right places. There are a number of STUNNING dogs out there. The difficulty lies in finding them. I will not deny this breed has problems, but that's kinda why I am interested. If no one does anything to correct the problem, how will it be fixed? See a need, fill a need and all that

---------- Post added at 03:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:38 PM ----------

If you plan on doing protection sports like PSA for example.. you are not going to take a EM, But you could do it with a CC, Presa, Dogo. If you plan on weight pulling you can do it with any of the breeds. If you plan on showing the same any breeds. If you plan on just having a pet then you really should not worry about drives in a dog but what you need as a pet.

JMO & advice

why would you not use an english mastiff?

 

[OwlSong]

If you plan on doing protection sports like PSA for example.. you are not going to take a EM, But you could do it with a CC, Presa, Dogo. If you plan on weight pulling you can do it with any of the breeds. If you plan on showing the same any breeds. If you plan on just having a pet then you really should not worry about drives in a dog but what you need as a pet.

JMO & advice

why would you not use an english mastiff?

 

[Geisthexe]

why would you not use an english mastiff?

I have a friend who is working her EM, She is a good dog and being slow in learning Schutzhund
Can the dog do the job yes, if someone is willing to put the time to get the big guys to do this. Most EMs just dont have that want or desire to do this type of work now a days. Now!! if you were asking me this lets say 20 yrs ago I would be speaking a bit different.
PSA is a hard sport, I know I went to one last year and failed with my dogs .. complete handler mess up and I went with no training for the sport as we do not have a club here but with that Ill be back knowing what I have to do.
Again could someone with the breed attempt it Yes, could they pass it well it would depend how much work they put into this pretty docile breed.

Regarding AmBully's .. you can show me all the photos you want .. I have seen, trained, and watched that breed just be something I do not care for. You do not see them in Protection trials .. you see folks post photos of them biting a sleeve but you can post a dog doing that doesnt mean a true working dog. (saying this for ALL BREEDS)
I dont care for the out of function body style, or deformity. Again JMO
We all love our breeds we own, or desire to own... I appreciate a good working dog / breed.

I am a big Presa Fan and it shows, as I work the hell out of my own dogs and prove them to the fullest. Now do I like the show style Presa NO, Do I like what is being called the Dogo Canario (short, stocky and out of standards body) NO.. Neither one of these types of dogs are good working dogs. Now there are folks that call anything that isnt out of Irema Curto lines Presa a DC. Are they correct NO b/c there are some wonderful working dog that have no IC in them. I have one in my home they call a DC and he is one of the most titled Presa Canarios in the country not to mention he has titles NO one has ever gone for in the WORLD. Does he prove the name Presa YES he does. I would stand behind that to any Presa / DC owner!!

I am particle to Malinois b/c of there working ability, man to watch these dogs work is like watching a fantasy come to life. The stamina, drive, focus, desire, ability I can go on and on, but I am not a fan of the other Belgian Shepherds (ie: Tervuren, Laekenois, or Groenedael) why b/c they just are not as stable as the Malinois. (I own Malinois)

I think for what you are thinking of getting into you would be better off with a Presa, CC, Dogo or American Bulldog (I would add Beorbel but they are not recognized by AKC or UKC so that limits you in what you can do with your dog) Now out of the dogs I just mentioned the ONLY one that is fully recognized by AKC is your CC .. Us Presa owners / breeders / handlers are fighting to keep Presas out of AKC.

Hope I made my personal self explainable

 

[OwlSong]

I have a friend who is working her EM, She is a good dog and being slow in learning Schutzhund
Can the dog do the job yes, if someone is willing to put the time to get the big guys to do this. Most EMs just dont have that want or desire to do this type of work now a days. Now!! if you were asking me this lets say 20 yrs ago I would be speaking a bit different.
PSA is a hard sport, I know I went to one last year and failed with my dogs .. complete handler mess up and I went with no training for the sport as we do not have a club here but with that Ill be back knowing what I have to do.
Again could someone with the breed attempt it Yes, could they pass it well it would depend how much work they put into this pretty docile breed.

Regarding AmBully's .. you can show me all the photos you want .. I have seen, trained, and watched that breed just be something I do not care for. You do not see them in Protection trials .. you see folks post photos of them biting a sleeve but you can post a dog doing that doesnt mean a true working dog. (saying this for ALL BREEDS)
I dont care for the out of function body style, or deformity. Again JMO
We all love our breeds we own, or desire to own... I appreciate a good working dog / breed.

I am a big Presa Fan and it shows, as I work the hell out of my own dogs and prove them to the fullest. Now do I like the show style Presa NO, Do I like what is being called the Dogo Canario (short, stocky and out of standards body) NO.. Neither one of these types of dogs are good working dogs. Now there are folks that call anything that isnt out of Irema Curto lines Presa a DC. Are they correct NO b/c there are some wonderful working dog that have no IC in them. I have one in my home they call a DC and he is one of the most titled Presa Canarios in the country not to mention he has titles NO one has ever gone for in the WORLD. Does he prove the name Presa YES he does. I would stand behind that to any Presa / DC owner!!

I am particle to Malinois b/c of there working ability, man to watch these dogs work is like watching a fantasy come to life. The stamina, drive, focus, desire, ability I can go on and on, but I am not a fan of the other Belgian Shepherds (ie: Tervuren, Laekenois, or Groenedael) why b/c they just are not as stable as the Malinois. (I own Malinois)

I think for what you are thinking of getting into you would be better off with a Presa, CC, Dogo or American Bulldog (I would add Beorbel but they are not recognized by AKC or UKC so that limits you in what you can do with your dog) Now out of the dogs I just mentioned the ONLY one that is fully recognized by AKC is your CC .. Us Presa owners / breeders / handlers are fighting to keep Presas out of AKC.

Hope I made my personal self explainable

very explainable!

You like working dogs. AmBullies are NOT working dogs and I have no problem saying that. YOu dont like the way they look, I dont like the way Neos look (too melty for me, LOL). We all have our preferences.


why do you not want AKC recognition, may I ask?

 

[Geisthexe]

We do not want them recognized b/c AKC ruins breeds. They write there own standard or allow folks to make an input on what it should say. We are FSS which is AKC Foundation Service Stock .. all breeds go thru this but We are working on getting them out.
They put the standard up and expect Blue color THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A BLUE PRESA If you want a blue dog buy a breed that breeds that color. Just one example why we do not want them.
I have thought many times of going and doing AKC Performance stuff but I wont do it. I have no FSS Presas in my yard.

American Bulldogs where FSS for a few years and they band together and got them out so we are attempting the same.
I dont care to EVER see a Presa at Westminister .. They are not working dogs meaning most of those dogs do not do there job they were designed to do or what we ask of them now (running around a ring does not say its a good dog) .. I dont like how AKC doesnt look at the dog but the handler behind the dog .. SAD!!!

I agree with you on Neos I am also not a fan of them. I have also have caught them as a decoy .. you would think powerful and my lil 5'6 height would have been put on the ground .. it was just the opposite .. dog came in slow and bit was not strong.

 

[OwlSong]

They put the standard up and expect Blue color THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A BLUE PRESA If you want a blue dog buy a breed that breeds that color. Just one example why we do not want them.

isnt blue just a dilution of black? That means any breed with black dogs can produce blue dogs, its just matter of matching up the recessive alleles.

 

[Geisthexe]

isnt blue just a dilution of black? That means any breed with black dogs can produce blue dogs, its just matter of matching up the recessive alleles.

Yes it is .. but that doesnt mean it should be a color we except. Could it happen in any litter Yes it could. But again it is NOT excepted. Just b/c AKC wants money like they are known for .. doesnt mean they can change out standard. FCI & UKC do not except the Blue ... FCI no longer excepts solid black Presa's but then they also changed the name from Presa to Dogo Canario b/c they felt it was a mean name ... completely stupid on there behalf. So now they are being made to be Dogo = show none working dog / Presa = working dog ... Also FCI is just a show registry not a working registry like UKC

Its all politics and I believe in the non blue dog or diluted black .. dont like them in the so called blue nose pit bull (is not a true color for them either or name) someone said lets call them this and it flew. YOU do not see a true gaming line Pit Bull to be Blue in color!

I can say if I had a blue Presa pop up in my line
A) I would never breed those two dogs together again.
B) I would never register the puppy
C) I wouldnt even call it a Presa .. I would adopt it out as a MUTT
D) If it popped up again b/c the male or female threw it in a completely different breeding, I would sterilize the dog!

Any good breeder would do just that. Not put a name on it RARE BLUE PRESA .. and this has happened.

 

[OwlSong]

Its all politics and I believe in the non blue dog or diluted black .. dont like them in the so called blue nose pit bull (is not a true color for them either or name) someone said lets call them this and it flew. YOU do not see a true gaming line Pit Bull to be Blue in color!

actually there are a number of blue APBTs (and SBTs) from old game lines. Its just rare because of its recessive nature. The only color "outlawed" by APBT standards is merle because that is known to have been introduced, most likely through catahoula crossings. The "rare blue nose" thing is just snake oil sold by BYBs, and most likely refers to the AmBully.

 

[Geisthexe]

actually there are a number of blue APBTs (and SBTs) from old game lines. Its just rare because of its recessive nature. The only color "outlawed" by APBT standards is merle because that is known to have been introduced, most likely through catahoula crossings. The "rare blue nose" thing is just snake oil sold by BYBs, and most likely refers to the AmBully.

Well all the old game dog guys I know will tell you its not a color in the game dogs. We can argue it but its not worth it .. We have a gal here that breeds a blue male she clearly states from old gaming lines but yet she is misrepresenting the breed b/c he is not out of gaming lines at all ..
I know the blue merle was not taken as a color ... And yes they probably had blue dogs come from it and they were probably culled .. Again most of the Pit bull history is so washed just depends on where you hear it

 

[Cody]

The AKC doesn't write the standards for breeds.
They are written by the patent breed club, then have to be voted on and accepted by the membership, Then submitted to the AKC.
It is a long process, I know that with the first draft of the CC standard the membership of the CCAA voted against it.
Once submitted it cannot be changed for 5 years, so the club had better get it right the first time

That said I have double dipped feeling on it.
I like being able to compete and title in AKC and CKC events however the new found popularity of the breed and The rapid growth of crappy breeders is booming day by day. AKC acceptance hasn't helped the breed per say.
You gotta love people who get an 8 week old puppy, create a kennel name and make a web page, cause then you KNOW they are in it for the right reason LMAO

Vulcan's breeder;
http://elmesquitalcanecorso.com/

 

[Geisthexe]

The AKC doesn't write the standards for breeds.
They are written by the patent breed club, then have to be voted on and accepted by the membership, Then submitted to the AKC.
It is a long process, I know that with the first draft of the CC standard the membership of the CCAA voted against it.
Once submitted it cannot be changed for 5 years, so the club had better get it right the first time

I really like to agree with you but the parenting club is UPPCC and I know for a fact that the standard they have is NOT the standard AKC uses, I also know for a fact we had breeders (no longer breeding) were working together to get the blue color in the standard. They went to AKC regarding the blue and before long the standard was changed. Explain that if you will.

Staffordshire Bull Terriers: fought to keep the standard for all registries they are in. I know this bc I use to own the breed. I commend them for working together to keep there breed to meet standards!

Presa Breeders still and always will want the breed out of AKC!

 

[Cody]

http://www.akc.org/reg/fss_details.cfm

I know tha the standard that the AKC uses now for the CC was put together by the CCAA, there is still arguing in regards to it.
Parts that are not worded correctly and will be changed when the 5 years is up.
Not sure why the Presa standard is different then the parent breed clubs, but until (if) the breed is officially recognised it is not set in stone.
Lol, we have 3 different standards for our breed, so depending on what type you like you can find one to fit your dog
I think keeping them out of the AKC is probably in the best interest of the breed and keeping it true!

 

[Geisthexe]

http://www.akc.org/reg/fss_details.cfm

I know tha the standard that the AKC uses now for the CC was put together by the CCAA, there is still arguing in regards to it.
Parts that are not worded correctly and will be changed when the 5 years is up.
Not sure why the Presa standard is different then the parent breed clubs, but until (if) the breed is officially recognised it is not set in stone.
Lol, we have 3 different standards for our breed, so depending on what type you like you can find one to fit your dog
I think keeping them out of the AKC is probably in the best interest of the breed and keeping it true!

Cody if ya never heard anyone on here say "I luv ya" well I do just for the statement "I think keeping them out of the AKC is probably in the best interest of the breed and keeping it true!"

Thank you .. We are doing our best