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Standing Ground.

iwannafila

Well-Known Member
Esand, PLEASE listen to the advice of Fila owners with more breed experience than you have! I agree with the people replying that you are not worried about the correct issue here. As my forum name implies, I wish to become a Fila owner in the future. I can assure you, if that dream indeed happens, I will do everything I can to honor this breed as a proper owner. Seeing your threads, and pics/vids of your beautiful dog with no leash on in public settings told me you were playing with fire. It appears you got burned.
 

Esand

Well-Known Member
teadora- agree 100% if the only purpose of a leash was to pitt my strength against that of a mastiff id have dislocated my shoulder multiple times.

Bob felts- what advice are you talking about, season advised me to use a prong, hector advises me to use a martingale, everything else was just condemnation.
 

Hector

Well-Known Member
To be fair, your question wasn't answered. If I were you, this is what I would work on. 1. Handler focus. There are lots of ways to do this and you should include it in all parts of training if you can whether brief or sustained. This includes eye contact, attention/redirection towards you when you say her name. Work on eye contact/attention during meals. Work on some duration. Ask/test her response when she is distracted like around the house playing with the other dog, barking at a distraction, focused on a chew, playing with other members in the house. This will give you an idea which areas she struggles in. 2. Recall. On top of the response to name, work on the recall a lot. Because she will already have a history of giving you attention when her name is being called, introduce a recall cue. I like to say their name and then the recall command. To me, the name grabs their attention and then gets them ready for the next command. Kind of like when someone says your name and your response would be "what?". Do this off leash at home and on leash in easy areas. Do this on walks and don't forget to use leash pressure appropriately as additional guidance. Play lots of recall games. Some games include paper plate recall, restrained recall, hide and seek, etc. I don't know what motivates your dog. I remember that your dog is not really motivated by food, but for easy obedience start rewarding with her kibble so she gets in the habit of accepting that as a reward also. I'm sure you know how the reward system works so do what works, but try to introduce other forms of rewards too like small personal play, petting, food, toys (whatever you use and what will work will depend on a lot of things). 3. Stay. Work on this. Work around distractions such as around other dogs. If you can, try to get some eye contact out of her. In order to train her to ignore/be stoic around other dogs without having to train in an environment full of loose dogs, you will have to work on your engagement with her. For example, in the video at the dog park I can see that even though she's not watching you, she is clearly paying attention to you (see the flicking of the left ear). Those are the moments when you want to train and reward her for any attention towards you. Be an active part of the reward. That way instead of being so focused and then defensive when other dogs come around, you are redirecting her attention and teaching her to ignore the other dogs and engage with you. 4. Integrate all her skills. If you can, teach an emergency stop/freeze command.

Also, you should carry some sort of self defense item that will help you defend your dog against loose dogs. Put your dog in a stay and get in front of her and do whatever you can to get the dog to leave. You must prove to her that you are capable of keeping her safe from other dogs. Start doing this at the dog park if you continue to go. Work on obedience, but when you see dogs coming towards her, you need to make sure that YOU are the one to make them leave, not her. She should only worry about what she's being told to do and trust you to take care of the rest.

She will gain confidence as she gets older and the bond you two build through obedience drills, everyday activities will all help her learn to look to you for direction. Do lots of obedience and walks outside of the perimeter of the dog park. Obedience needs to be solid, but it needs to be more solid around innocent people.

Like you said, flight responses took over and I think her guardian instincts kicked in when she saw how close that man was to you. I think her reaction would have been different if the dog had came after you.
 

angelbears

Well-Known Member
Linda, do you think any of that training will kick in if the dog truly feels that their owner is in danger? Most of the Fila people that I spent time with said that if a Fila truly believes you are in danger. Training is out the window. They are going to protect you. That is just in their DNA. The key is to keep the dog out of those situations.
 

Hector

Well-Known Member
Linda, do you think any of that training will kick in if the dog truly feels that their owner is in danger? Most of the Fila people that I spent time with said that if a Fila truly believes you are in danger. Training is out the window. They are going to protect you. That is just in their DNA. The key is to keep the dog out of those situations.
I really don't know. The only way to prove that is to have a true temp fila with a set of excellent obedience skills and a competent owner and then set up courage tests on and off leash. I'd pay to see this. Is there a video of this somewhere?

Point is, training doesn't guarantee anything, but it definitely gives owners some level of control over owners with non trained dogs and there is a chance that the dog can be recalled before an attack. In this case, I think if the pup had a more solid recall, none of the fighting/biting would have happened. The owner calls the dog and the dog comes and the OP simply regains control of the dog. I'm still not understanding why the situation escalated where the dog felt the need to engage.

Some people choose to isolate their dogs from the public or avoid being in those situations and I'm fine with that. I used to think that and act that way, but the fact is I can't isolate him from the rest of the world forever. It's unfair and unrealistic. I live in the city. I have neighbors and they have kids. I live by a medical complex. I live by a school. People are everywhere and people do people things. We are going to be out there and be part of it. Problems that arise will have be dealt with through training. Training allows them to learn that a person jogging towards us is not a threat, kids running and flailing their arms is not a threat, a man cleaning the windows with a long stick is not a threat, people at a park are not a threat, people stopping and chatting are not a threat, people in the drive thru window are not a threat, etc. Like I've shared before about the story about my bf's bro where he came into the house and my bf didn't tell me and we were in the yard. We came inside and Hector lunges for the brother (because all he knew was that there was a stranger in the house) and almost leapt over a chair that was in the way and almost grabbed him, but my bf got up real quick and yelled NO and he quickly turned off. This all happened and was over with even before I made back into the house. Even though he's a nerve bag, that is exactly what I want, a dog that can turn off and still hear you in a moment of chaos.
 

Hector

Well-Known Member
Linda, do you think any of that training will kick in if the dog truly feels that their owner is in danger? Most of the Fila people that I spent time with said that if a Fila truly believes you are in danger. Training is out the window. They are going to protect you. That is just in their DNA. The key is to keep the dog out of those situations.
[video=youtube;1mDS7m9qRhw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mDS7m9qRhw[/video]
 

angelbears

Well-Known Member
Well said Linda. I don't think you have to isolate, I chose to but mainly because I don't like most people. I have been around a couple very hard Fila's that I have even sit in the living room with them out. One time one of the dogs had to be taken to another room after we had gotten a little loud, laughing and joking around. Even though this dog was highly trained and even competed in SCH. He had thresholds.

What I don't understand is why people insist on taking their Fila to the park, walking down public streets, ect. Do you need to socialize your Fila? Hell, yes but does a true Fila enjoy a stroll in the park. I don't think so. They are in high alert mode. It is very stressful and unfair. There are plenty of other protection breeds out there that can enjoy those kind of activities. I don't think that a true Fila does.
 

Joao M

Well-Known Member
Esand
,Answering directly to your question, I do not believe you need to teach anything to your fila as regards "standing ground". She will get there by herself, you will see. Especially after this incident and in particular if she feels she has to defend you.
But with all due respect, perhaps you should study and understand a bit more the type of dog/breed a fila is. Again, I say this with all the respect.
I would love to have a fila, but first I have to retire and move to the countryside and have a nice fenced property. In that situation, a fila would be the ideal dog. Living in the city... I don´t even consider the possibility.
Being Portuguese, I know why filas were created and what their role was in Brazil. It´s not nice but we have to assume our history.
Contrary to what you said ,they were effectively raised to find and maul (hurt, destroy) escaping slaves. That is the truth unfortunately and they were raised to do that to prevent more escapes. That was more important than find the slaves that escaped.
Morover, filas are one the few mollosser breeds whose temperament has not been seriously changed by man in the past 100 years. They still "hate" strangers to the point of attacking when they feel their owner/property is in danger; are much more human agressive (HA) than dog agressive (they worked in packs back in the days). And they know how to hurt...
So, if you want a piece of advise, don´t worry about a fila standing ground and knowing how to take care of itself, but worry on its protective instinct towards you even when you feel you don´t need protection. If the fila decides you need it unless it is extremely well trained (not only trained) and controlled, it WILL protect you.
A muzzle is in order IMO whenever you go out with your dog. Don´t underestimated its power and HA drive
Again, this is just my opinion
 
Joao M, that's exactly right. Fila's weren't loss prevention, it was escape deterrent. When they brought a slave back bloody and mauled it instilled fear that the same thing would happen to the next one that ran. They didn't run out and hold the hand of the runaway slave and bring them home in a friendly manner that's for damn sure.
 

Joao M

Well-Known Member
And they still have some of the breed original characteristics (contrary to almost all of the other mollosers). And they are so suspicious with strangers by nature that - I believe - it is the only breed that is not penalized in dog shows when they don´t let the judges touch them
A fantastic breed but to "handle with care"
 

cinnamon roll

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
Okay, no fila should ever be off lead in public. Ever. Imo a fila should always have a backup collar on in public.

Secondly she very well could of killed that guy if she connected just right. And the fact that you are downplaying the fact that she bit is extremely unnerving. If I was that guy, I would sue you in an instant.

Thirdly, she is a pup she is going thru different stages they all hit fear stages.

This is why filas get a bad rap. Mostly due to irresponsible, uneducated owners. Filas are an amazing breed in the right hands. One day when I do not live in the suburbs I will own one.
 

Bob Felts

Well-Known Member
CR - I'm afraid this guy just doesn't get it. He reminds me of a guy that packs so he can show off "careful, I've got a gun." And I think he will never see what is wrong with his attitude / thinking. Perhaps he should get fish instead. But, then he would want piranha.

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amandakay2

Well-Known Member
OMG YOUR DOG BIT SOMEONE AND YOU STILL THINK THATS NOT THE ISSUE YOUR DOG WILL END UP DEAD IF THIS CONTINUES TO BE YOUR ATTITUDE

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Bob Felts

Well-Known Member
I understand the all caps post in this case. Totally warranted.

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