Presa pup on Craigslist

[Jerms]

Also DD i wouldnt expect firehorse to announce how much profit they bring in on the website they give you the positive blurbs about their kennel. Nowhere does it say they are a non profit organization.

---------- Post added at 05:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:01 PM ----------

@ruth i have never once said that breeding dogs is a way to make a great living- but like you just said--if done right there is SOME profit. Not all reputable breeders breed dogs only to better the breed. Some make a profit like you just said and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[Jerms]

@ruth i have never once said that breeding dogs is a way to make a great living- but like you just said--if done right there is SOME profit. Not all reputable breeders breed dogs only to better the breed. Some make a profit like you just said and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[ruthcatrin]

@ruth i have never once said that breeding dogs is a way to make a great living- but like you just said--if done right there is SOME profit. Not all reputable breeders breed dogs only to better the breed. Some make a profit like you just said and there is nothing wrong with that.

Profit at a rate less than minimum wage. Sure, its money you wouldn't have if you didn't breed the dogs, but its not making a living at all. If you tried to live off of it you'd starve. With the exception of a few major commercial kennels like Jadotha mentioned every single breeder I can think of, that I've talked to and/or investigated with an eye towards getting a puppy, works a real job that pays the bills (or has a spouse who does anyway). Their breeding programs don't make enough to do more than barely cover the bills for their dog program, and THAT only if they're lucky. With the exception of status bound idiots (like the ones in China who paid a million for a TM) there IS an upper limit to what can be charged for pups, and for stud fees, and unfortunetly there IS no upper limit on medical costs and food costs, and the costs of getting a championship.....

Yes there are jerks out there who don't care for the dogs and are doing it as a status symbol, not everyone's in it for the love of the breed. The good ones STILL don't make anything approaching a living off of it because in order to really make it they understand that they have to still walk through all the steps, and health testings, and championships....

Now sure, if you as a puppy buyer don't care about health testings, and championships, and "all that jazz" and so you go to a breeder who doesn't do any of that, and you still pay a couple grand for a pup, well then yes, the breeder quite likely just made a decent profit off you. Not one of us was referring to that type of breeder.

 

[Confused68]

My breeder doesn't drive a "NEW" car he drives an older SUV but he said it was new to him. Sorry, I must have created a firestorm with my comment! I bought my 2007 highlander in 2008 with 16,000 and that to me was new.

 

[Jerms]

Like I said they might not earn a living but there is some profit. Making a profit does not make them bad. If a reputable breeder sells a litter for 12000 dollars there can be some profit. It might come out to 7 bucks an hour but that aint bad if it a second job doing something you love right? And im not saying that people always do the right things with dogs on craigslist. There are shady people out there. There also are people who dont know of any other place to sell a dog. Maybe they dont realize what they are doing is wrong because they arent educated on this stuff like you guys. This guy is only on there selling one dog for what? Maybe 100 bucks? Doesnt sound too smart

 

[ruthcatrin]

Like I said they might not earn a living but there is some profit. Making a profit does not make them bad. If a reputable breeder sells a litter for 12000 dollars there can be some profit. It might come out to 7 bucks an hour but that aint bad if it a second job doing something you love right? And im not saying that people always do the right things with dogs on craigslist. There are shady people out there. There also are people who dont know of any other place to sell a dog. Maybe they dont realize what they are doing is wrong because they arent educated on this stuff like you guys. This guy is only on there selling one dog for what? Maybe 100 bucks? Doesnt sound too smart

are you sure this is the only dog he's done it with? I know I've seen the same phone numbers over and over on dog listings on craigslist. I KNOW a local "breeder" sells her stud dogs "because I have to move and can't take him with me" when she gets tired of them. I've watched her two years in a row list pups for sale, locally on signs, in local papers, and on craigslist, and then advertise looking for a stud dog, and then advertise selling an intact male....all using the same phone number, the same pictures of the father of the litter and the dog she's selling....there's nothing smart about it.

 

[Jerms]

That lady sounds like she isnt doing the right thing. I agree she knows exactly what she is doing and probably knows it is wrong. Maybe the guy that is the cause for this thread is a bad guy with no morals but maybe hes not is all im saying.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Maybe the guy that is the cause for this thread is a bad guy with no morals but maybe hes not is all im saying.

Based on the experiences of those of us here, and the timing of the whole thing, combined with sissie's experience talking to the guy, combined with the likely hood that there's a contract from a decent breeder on the pup? The odds are SERIOUSLY against him just being an idiot who bought an expensive pup right before loosing his job.....

 

[northernmastiff]

Need a like button for Ruth. LOL. I agree, the guy seems a bit suspicious only because of the age of the pup, how long he has had it and now he has to move. Seems suspect but then, what do I know. Flipping is a problem because of several reasons:

1. The dogs are often mistreated by the flipper. They are kept in small cages, dirty places, sit in feces, and a wide range of other deplorable situations. Mind you, there is always an exception to the rule.
2. Dogs that should be put down are often rescued. It doesn't matter what the temperament is, just the breed and the looks. The dog could have serious aggression problems but they don't care, health problems, etc.
3. They lie outright to the people adopting the dogs. Tell them different stories about the dog, lie about getting them their health checks, lie about temperament. One person on here rescued a dog from a flipper, told how loving he was, etc, etc, the dog attacked her and broke the skin on her arm. Imagine if it had been a family with kids who adopted that dog. Sadly, the dog had to be put down due to aggression. Another person paid extra because the dog was spayed, got the dog and surprise, she went into heat. So yeah, some lies can be small, some big.
4. The dogs are there for a profit. You lower your profit margin if you provide the proper food, vet care, socialization and training. My friend went to buy a French Bulldog and when she got to this dirty house, the guy walked into the backroom and brought her out. Behind him, she caught a glimpse of puppies in cages stacked three high. No adult dogs were present, just the puppies. Turns out, after some research, the guy was a puppy broker. He would collect puppies from people new to breeding, byb's or puppy mills and then resell them at a higher price. The puppies he didn't sell disappeared and the ones that did had a lot of health problems (my friend didn't think about anything but saving that puppy so she brought her home, she had a serious infection that almost cost the puppy her life and it cost my friend nearly 2k in vet bills after all was said and done).

So that is why we feel flipping is wrong. If the guy isn't flipping then all the best to him, if he is, then I hope he doesn't make a dime but the puppy gets rehomed. Sadly, if he makes money off of flipping, he will keep doing it.

 

[Kelly]

Based on the experiences of those of us here, and the timing of the whole thing, combined with sissie's experience talking to the guy, combined with the likely hood that there's a contract from a decent breeder on the pup? The odds are SERIOUSLY against him just being an idiot who bought an expensive pup right before loosing his job.....

Yabbut maybe he's just down on his luck.:lolbangtable:

 

[ruthcatrin]

It might come out to 7 bucks an hour but that aint bad if it a second job doing something you love right?

I missed this before.....I haven't seen one estimate on costs vs money comining that even comes close to $7/hr profit, Northern's breakdown of less than $2 is far more accurate IMO....

---------- Post added at 06:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:27 PM ----------

Yabbut maybe he's just down on his luck.:lolbangtable:

uhuh.....

 

[ruthcatrin]

Yabbut maybe he's just down on his luck.:lolbangtable:

uhuh.....

 

[Jerms]

I agree it doesnt look too good for the guy but we still dont know for sure thats the breeder he got it from. If im wrong I apologize for stickin up for him--you have to realize that most people dont know as much about what is good for dogs as the people on this forum. Its sad but true. This guy might have seen a way to make a quick buck and didnt see what was wrong with what he was doing. He sees breeders of dogs , horses ,emus making money and just thought he was doing no harm. If i saw proof that this guy was a repeat offender who knew he was conducting unsavory business ill think much less of the guy.

 

[AKBull]

I agree it doesnt look too good for the guy but we still dont know for sure thats the breeder he got it from. If im wrong I apologize for stickin up for him

The breeder has his name as "Denzel" on the website. The guy calls out "Denzel" in the video. That'd be one hell of a coincidence.

 

[Duetsche_Doggen]

DD its a web site un reputable breeders put the same stuff on their sites no? Does that mean that un-reputable breeders dont want profit. The kennel in the UK that was using one of black shadows dogs picture without permission had the same type of jargon to describe their kennel. So a kennel with ten champion dogs like firehorse who are charging as much as 3000 per puppy plus stud services isnt making some money--you guys are turning reputable breeders into saints. Believe me they make money. It just varies on how much. And how is flipping a dog from a kill shelter a bad thimg we would rather the dog dead? That doesnt make sense. We can dock tails and crop ears and spay and neuter these dogs but god forbid a guy down on his luck re-sells one!

I have a headache as it is and trying to explain this to you isn't helping......*head desk*

No they are not the same. BYB's show pictures of dogs they deem "breedable." GOOD Reputable breeders display their accomplishments, titles, passion, and above all health. How do you know Fire Horse makes money??? You hacking into their bank accounts???? The money they get from pups is the same as " Burrowing money from Peter to pay Paul." There is very little if any profit.

 

[raechiemay]

The breeder has his name as "Denzel" on the website. The guy calls out "Denzel" in the video. That'd be one hell of a coincidence.

That was the FIRST thing I noticed. Is there any word from the breeder yet?

 

[AKBull]

Is there any word from the breeder yet?

No... Not sure what to think about that. Though some people don't live on the computer.

 

[Jerms]

According to northern mastiffs breakdown of they money involved its obvious its a business. Why would the breeder re-home dogs when they get to be 6 years old? Taking a dog away from its pack after six years doesnt sound like the best thing for the dog. Sounds like business to me.

 

[ruthcatrin]

According to northern mastiffs breakdown of they money involved its obvious its a business. Why would the breeder re-home dogs when they get to be 6 years old? Taking a dog away from its pack after six years doesnt sound like the best thing for the dog. Sounds like business to me.

In order to meet the legal requirements required by many states many breeders ARE legally businesses. They HAVE to be able to break such down if they're ever audited. That doesn't mean a thing about profits....

And although I certinally can't speak for every breeder and every situation, I have talked to a couple breeders about rehoming their adult dogs. They are dogs who for what ever reason didn't do well in the ring, they are dogs who've had a health problem that prohibits them from being bred, and no matter how much they might LIKE to, breeders have bottom lines too, and there are limits to how many "non-working" dogs they can support, so they'll find a pet home suitable for these dogs where they can be happy. Sometimes they are dogs that often don't fit in well with the breeder's home (ie: doesn't do well with kids and the breeder has two) so the breeder hung onto them long enough to get that litter or two and is now looking for a more suitable home.

 

[northernmastiff]

According to northern mastiffs breakdown of they money involved its obvious its a business. Why would the breeder re-home dogs when they get to be 6 years old? Taking a dog away from its pack after six years doesnt sound like the best thing for the dog. Sounds like business to me.

Not all breeders rehome but yes, it is a business to a point and a passion to another. My husband is a sculptor, it is a business and a passion. I am a writer, again business and a passion. I am lucky to be able to do something I love for a profit. Breeders often rehome because they want to continue on their line but know that keeping 80 dogs really isn't in the best interest of anyone, including the dogs. There have been plenty of breeders who have become animal hoarders and kept every single breeding dog they ever owned, the end result has not been pretty. As someone who is moving towards owning a kennel, I can tell you Daisy is here to stay, the next two or three dogs will probably be here to stay as well but there will come a time when I need to make a decision on whether I rehome a dog or keep it and stop advancing the line I am building and I know it will be the right decision when that time comes.

The only way I could get into breeding was under the agreement that I wouldn't hoard. My husband was really worried about that with me.

I have often talked about fostering kids and we really are all for it. I have the perfect situation as I am home all the time working but my husband keeps saying no because I would be filing adoption papers every time a new child is placed with me...and every child needs their own pet...and...and...and. Would probably need a 30 bedroom house for all the kids and animals. LOL.