Oscar was accused of trying to bite.

[Oscar'sMom]

So my bf's brother and his girlfriend came over for the FIRST time. We're always trying to get them to hang out with us and they really are not big dog people at all. We used to live with his brother before the girlfriend was around...about 13 months ago. They came over for thanksgiving and briefly after his graduation for his brother in December. No problems!!! Oscar was super interested in the girlfriend because she was new and smelled great. They came over tonight and I was giving him the place command when his brother opened the door and shook a bag in his face. He kinda ran away and turned back to say hello (he knows brother from 8 weeks and loves him despite the fact that the love isn't returned). He went back to smell and then did a small jump to nip at girlfriend. He barely got her and there was a small spot where the top layer of skin was peeled back..maybe the size of the tip of a pencil. They were so mad and upset and I feel awful. She keeps saying "he got her really good!". I wanted to say (but refrained) that if he wanted to bite her he would've. I don't feel like he bit...I think he nipped at her because they shoved a bag of bottles at him. He should've listened to me but I never fully got my command out before the barreled thru the door and did that. Ugh. I feel like we work really hard to be great but struggle. He and I are now on leash and on our own couch because when she got up to go to the bathroom he tried to run towards her. Oscar is a dick.

 

[Oscar'sMom]

I also meant to put this in training and behavior...can this be moved?

 

[Lisa P]

I think they were taunting him,they are lucky he just nipped

 

[tmricciuto]

Too bad people can't take responsibility for their piece.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Hector]

I'm thinking he may have nipped her because he was excited?

 

[Oscar'sMom]

I'm not sure. We left the door open so that he could watch and know when someone was coming. He saw them and apparently recognized them and was wagging his tail! Once they got inside was when it all went down. I feel terrible of course but I think it was an overreaction. He wants at her so badly but she is afraid of him. I'm sure he can sense it. They are gone now and he is off his leash...which he hated and whined about the whole time

 

[teodora]

he wanted to play. It's ridiculous to pretend that a huge mastiff did "bite" when no damage is done.

 

[Boxergirl]

My opinion is likely to be unpopular or considered alarmist, but here goes. I believe Hector is correct and he was over stimulated. I don't think he wanted to play. I believe Oscar is old enough that he's grown out of the nipping to play stage. Al does that same nipping thing when he's too worked up. Does he want to play? Sure, but that's not why he's nipping. It's arousal. And it almost always happens when new people come over. New means people that haven't been here quite a few times and completely ignored him until their presence is no longer exciting. I don't let him meet just anyone. I can't, despite the fact that we've been working on impulse control for six years.

The fact is that Oscar did leave a mark which means his teeth actually made contact and some damage was done. That, to me, is a big deal. I think teeth leaving a mark on skin is always a big deal. It's an even bigger deal because if this girl wanted to make an issue of this, she could. He technically "broke" skin. In the US breaking skin, even if it's with a toenail, can be grounds for quarantine because saliva can get in the wound and rabies is spread by saliva. The authorities don't really care how the skin was broken, just that a dog did it. I know Oscar's mom only said that the skin was peeled, but I believe that counts as broken skin.

All I'm saying is that you need to be careful. Oscar continued to show extreme interest in this girl. I can picture it clearly because I know how Al is. He gets obsessed. Particularly with ladies. If she's the only one that he acts like that around, then please don't allow any future interaction with her at all. Watch him closely so you know exactly what the early signs are that he's becoming too aroused in case this happens with someone else.

 

[teodora]

i agree it's an issue. It should be addressed. As a rule, I work with Jack not to touch skin with his open mouth. If he does and I move my hand and got a scratch then, technically, it's not a bite (it's not bilateral and not a puncture) but it's hell of a problem to prove it. It's ok to give kisses, but even that can spook some people. I don't agree with overreacting and pretending it was a drama where there was none. Yes it was arousal. No, it doesn't mean the dog is aggressive. No, he didn't "get her really good". It means he has wonderful bite inhibition. And if the lady has dog phobia she should've told the owner from the beginning - or not come to their place at all.

 

[Hector]

How is he with place command?


Continue to work on place. Work on place and have a solid place way before you have guests come over. Work on place with setups such as having volunteer guests knock on the door, come in to the house, sit and leave. Repeat on occasion to make sure the boy has the command down. Always have a leash on him so that you can easily direct him back on place and if you ever needed to grab him quickly, it's there. Verbally correct the dog before he makes a mistake.

I've had guests come over to the house and what I did was have him on a leash in one place and I was right there with him. I did not trust him nor did I trust the guests. If I needed to leave him unsupervised, then I would put him in the crate.

He hated and whined the whole time he was tethered to you because he was being pushy, but you did a good job not giving him what he wanted.

 

[Oscar'sMom]

My opinion is likely to be unpopular or considered alarmist, but here goes. I believe Hector is correct and he was over stimulated. I don't think he wanted to play. I believe Oscar is old enough that he's grown out of the nipping to play stage. Al does that same nipping thing when he's too worked up. Does he want to play? Sure, but that's not why he's nipping. It's arousal. And it almost always happens when new people come over. New means people that haven't been here quite a few times and completely ignored him until their presence is no longer exciting. I don't let him meet just anyone. I can't, despite the fact that we've been working on impulse control for six years. The fact is that Oscar did leave a mark which means his teeth actually made contact and some damage was done. That, to me, is a big deal. I think teeth leaving a mark on skin is always a big deal. It's an even bigger deal because if this girl wanted to make an issue of this, she could. He technically "broke" skin. In the US breaking skin, even if it's with a toenail, can be grounds for quarantine because saliva can get in the wound and rabies is spread by saliva. The authorities don't really care how the skin was broken, just that a dog did it. I know Oscar's mom only said that the skin was peeled, but I believe that counts as broken skin.All I'm saying is that you need to be careful. Oscar continued to show extreme interest in this girl. I can picture it clearly because I know how Al is. He gets obsessed. Particularly with ladies. If she's the only one that he acts like that around, then please don't allow any future interaction with her at all. Watch him closely so you know exactly what the early signs are that he's becoming too aroused in case this happens with someone else.

I agree that it's an issue that needs to be addressed. It just took me by surprise because we have guests over frequently and have never had a problem. We actually had two new people over last weekend and not one issue. I don't understand what it is with her? After it happened I couldn't hardly tell but she said there was a small place where one tooth made contact. It would be hard to prove anything and to be perfectly honest she wasn't overly upset despite saying he got her. I think he was overstimulated for sure and after he was leashed and she got up he wanted to get near her again. He will forever be leashed when she comes over because frankly I don't want to deal with an issue or ever allow it to go further. He is a huge puss most of the time but is very protective of us. I just don't know a good way to address this is or work on it?

 

[Boxergirl]

No, he wasn't aggressive. But people overreact all the time and anyone can say whatever they want and the authorities are not likely to be on the dog's side. At least I've never known them to be. All it takes is a trip to the doctor and it gets reported because that's the law. For me, knowing Al has a problem when he's over stimulated, I just keep him safe from himself and from jerks that overreact. And I make sure his rabies vaccine is always up to date.

 

[Oscar'sMom]

i agree it's an issue. It should be addressed. As a rule, I work with Jack not to touch skin with his open mouth. If he does and I move my hand and got a scratch then, technically, it's not a bite (it's not bilateral and not a puncture) but it's hell of a problem to prove it. It's ok to give kisses, but even that can spook some people. I don't agree with overreacting and pretending it was a drama where there was none. Yes it was arousal. No, it doesn't mean the dog is aggressive. No, he didn't "get her really good". It means he has wonderful bite inhibition. And if the lady has dog phobia she should've told the owner from the beginning - or not come to their place at all.

Thanks T. I agree. We just need to address. If he wanted to do damage there would be but I assume that was his warning. I guess I need to be forever cautious. Lesson learned

 

[Oscar'sMom]

How is he with place command? Continue to work on place. Work on place and have a solid place way before you have guests come over. Work on place with setups such as having volunteer guests knock on the door, come in to the house, sit and leave. Repeat on occasion to make sure the boy has the command down. Always have a leash on him so that you can easily direct him back on place and if you ever needed to grab him quickly, it's there. Verbally correct the dog before he makes a mistake. I've had guests come over to the house and what I did was have him on a leash in one place and I was right there with him. I did not trust him nor did I trust the guests. If I needed to leave him unsupervised, then I would put him in the crate. He hated and whined the whole time he was tethered to you because he was being pushy, but you did a good job not giving him what he wanted.

Thanks Hector. We have never practiced with stimulants because it just never came up or did we have an opportunity. He responds well to place. He goes every time I ask him. We have worked extra hard on it the last couple of months because we had family in for thanksgiving (6 extra people in our house including this girl). He listened the whole time. When someone comes in our house or rings the bell he goes nuts. I have been working with him and putting him in his place. Meh reluctantly responds. Even after she was here and drama had occurred he barked at the pizza man. I had him on his leash and I put him in a sit in the room beside the door and made him wait. He did fine. Very frustrating

 

[Oscar'sMom]

No, he wasn't aggressive. But people overreact all the time and anyone can say whatever they want and the authorities are not likely to be on the dog's side. At least I've never known them to be. All it takes is a trip to the doctor and it gets reported because that's the law. For me, knowing Al has a problem when he's over stimulated, I just keep him safe from himself and from jerks that overreact. And I make sure his rabies vaccine is always up to date.

Better safe than sorry in my opinion. They are family and she is almost finished with medical school so hopefully she knows what is an injury and what isn't . But seriously...I agree that it needs to be handled and he needs some work with strangers. I always say "he's not a people person" when talking about him but at home he will accept who we accept until tonight

 

[Hector]

Thanks Hector. We have never practiced with stimulants because it just never came up or did we have an opportunity. He responds well to place. He goes every time I ask him. We have worked extra hard on it the last couple of months because we had family in for thanksgiving (6 extra people in our house including this girl). He listened the whole time. When someone comes in our house or rings the bell he goes nuts. I have been working with him and putting him in his place. Meh reluctantly responds. Even after she was here and drama had occurred he barked at the pizza man. I had him on his leash and I put him in a sit in the room beside the door and made him wait. He did fine. Very frustrating

So you're saying he held a place the whole time you had guests at your house during thxgiving?

 

[Oscar'sMom]

So you're saying he held a place the whole time you had guests at your house during thxgiving?

He held place when asked too. I didn't keep him there the whole time because hey we're there for hours. When guests came in he went to his place and stayed and until everyone was settled. During dinner he was in the floor between me and her to our sides sleeping

 

[Oscar'sMom]

He was interested in her then but listened. She was the only new person at our house the day. There wasn't a problem them IMO that would've warranted me learning him today when they came over. I will from now on and just tether him to me. I just am disappointed in him and Addisons brother for spooking him a bit. I know it doesn't warrant the reaction it got but his brother knows we work hard with him and it was unnecessary

 

[Hector]

He was interested in her then but listened. She was the only new person at our house the day. There wasn't a problem them IMO that would've warranted me learning him today when they came over. I will from now on and just tether him to me. I just am disappointed in him and Addisons brother for spooking him a bit. I know it doesn't warrant the reaction it got but his brother knows we work hard with him and it was unnecessary

Keep at it. You'll get there. Arousal is hard to deal with.

 

[teodora]

I may be wrong but I see it as playful arousal not aggression per se. I've seen aggression without contact, aggressive "warning" and it's still aggression: ie snapping the air. This was not, from your description, it was just your dog misunderstanding the signal "play time". Prolonged playtime, especially rough play, can lead to real aggression but this was not the case. What was his body language?