Opinions on prong training collars?

[markwaynewolf]

My 12 (13 months in 5 days ) female CC typically listens, knows her basic commands, can USUALLY walk on a leash without problems. However, when visiting somewhere new or as we just started running together because she is getting old enough she has some issues with pulling and sometimes lagging behind. I was wondering if anyone uses this type of collar, how it works and would you recommend it to another CC owner? I DO know not to use it while they play or what have you. I tend to only use it for training.

 

[Th0r]

I don't know if it is a good idea to use while running. Otherwise it is a great tool.

Sent from my Nexus 5

 

[Mag-Pie]

I use the prong collar for walking my CC. I think it is a great training tool when sized and used properly. I did a ton of research before starting to use the prong collar, watched videos from leerburg.com and solidk9training.com (I really like these two places, and the helpful information regarding all types of training they provide). I know the prong is controversial, but IMO the conclusion is that the prong collar is more effective, humane and appropriate, as it promotes a clearer, calmer correction than a choke chain, flat collar or even a martingale (unless the dog is super soft which Luther is not), and it definitely seems to decrease both handler and dog stress surrounding the necessity for a correction. Obviously I don't think of it as a magic bullet, I know training needs to be priority and that is a lifetime commitment. But the prong collar does help me out with training - and Luther does great wearing it, is responding to it very well, he LOVES going for walks, and is walking with a loose leash now. As far as using it while running, I simply don't know and haven't researched it.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Lots of people on here use or have used prongs. However I gotta agree that I'm not sure they're appropriate for use while jogging/running. If they're fitted properly then they don't take much pressure to "trigger" and there's a fair bit of jerking of the leash while running.

 

[Cyndnelson]

I also watched several videos before using one and what I tried for over a year with treats and a harness, I accomplished in a few weeks with the prong. I only use it when we are on our walks (I don't leave it on at the dog park or hanging around the house) and it is the only tool I've found Caesar responds to. I get a lot of flack from various people about how 'evil' it is, but wouldn't you guess, none of them have ever owned a 130lb dog...

I am a advocate for them, as long as owners educate themselves and are used properly. Even though Caesar walks pretty good now, I would never go out of the house without it. His mind changes when he's wearing it - for the good, and if he hated it or had any bad associations with it, he wouldn't let me put it on. I now only need to correct him 10-20% of the time rather than 80-90% and I'm sure as both we continue to work on mastering The Walk, that will hopefully decrease to 0-5%. And I'm totally ok with that!

 

[markwaynewolf]

Thanks for the advice and comments! As long as it works I will still get it. But if not a good idea for running it will at least teach her to walk properly which can translate into running without once she learns. Plus I could use it as a correction tool while inforcing other training. Thank you for the input so far! I have a choke collar but it doesnt do what I need it to do.

 

[ruthcatrin]

There've been alot of discussion on prongs, if you hit up the general training and equipment sections you should find several threads on them.

 

[Mag-Pie]

On a side note, personally I hate choke chains as much as some people hate prong collars. And one reason why I hate them, and won't use them, is because they simply do not work and seem to cause more stress for me as well as for the dog.

In the beginning when I got Luther (he was 14 months old) and he was not leash trained, someone suggested using a choke collar, but as soon as I put it on him, he didn't even skip a beat, kept pulling just as hard as on a flat collar except this time he would make choking noises, leash corrections were impossible to do, and I decided then and there that I HATED the choke collar and would never use it again. IMO it was useless, seemed to be harming the dog, and was throwing me out of the zone - I was too distracted with the choking noises and could not focus to work on training him to walk properly. Next was the martingale collar (leather and chain), which in all honesty was not much better then the flat collar as far as walking him went. And finally I said enough and that's when I got the Herm Sprenger training/prong collar with quick release snap (3.25 mm) and a short/traffic lead. I did my research on how to properly fit it, and use it. And within a week I could walk Luther without straining my arm, looking back I can't believe that I walked him that first week in spite of all the pulling he did; but somehow I did because I was obsessed with walking him at least once a day. Now I walk him twice, and he walks in heel on a loose leash.

Hopefully, once you get your CC to walk properly while wearing a prong, it will eventually translate into running without one. Remember, time and consistency in training are your friends.

 

[Cyndnelson]

And wouldn't running be easier than walking? I think dogs get more in 'the zone' when they run and are in less need of correcting anyway. I personally hate jogging so it's out for me, but when MDH takes Caesar for a blade he does really, really well. All their energy is focused on the run rather than on their surroundings and he probably wouldn't need the prong at that time anyway. JMHO.

 

[Hector]

You don't want to use a prong when running. If you slip, your dog will end up like this.

[video=youtube;QDQCkgyy6xY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDQCkgyy6xY[/video]

Before you start jogging with your dog, you should have good voice control over the dog. The dog should be attentive to your speed and be able to stop or turn on a command with no hesitation otherwise be prepared to be pulled. Jogging will increase arousal so if your dog is reactive or tendencies to chase after little critters, just prepare for the worse.

You can look up canicross equipment and tether the dog to a waist belt and run that way.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Shit, that idiot deliberetly left the collar on the dog for DAYS! I'm sorry, but if my normally well behaved dog suddenly won't let me touch his neck theres a PROBLEM and I do something about it, not ignore it and leave the collar on the dog for days!

 

[ruthcatrin]

I have to add, you really don't want the dog bouncing off the end off the leash in ANY collar. In a flat, martingale, or choke collar the dog can do serious damage to the internals of his throat that way. Look up collapsed trachea for example.

Especially on a prong I recommend a hold further down the leash (or the addition of a traffic lead), 1: because the shorter you stop the dog the less pressure is put on his neck, 2: because every additional step he takes the more focused he is, the sooner you get the correction in the more effective it'll be with less force, and 3: though damage like that in the video isn't common, it CAN happen, and the more time your dog has to get up to speed the more likely it is.

 

[Mag-Pie]

I have to add, you really don't want the dog bouncing off the end off the leash in ANY collar. In a flat, martingale, or choke collar the dog can do serious damage to the internals of his throat that way. Look up collapsed trachea for example.

Especially on a prong I recommend a hold further down the leash (or the addition of a traffic lead), 1: because the shorter you stop the dog the less pressure is put on his neck, 2: because every additional step he takes the more focused he is, the sooner you get the correction in the more effective it'll be with less force, and 3: though damage like that in the video isn't common, it CAN happen, and the more time your dog has to get up to speed the more likely it is.

^^^ x2 AND I am with you in calling the video guy an idiot for leaving his dog's collar on for days. WTF?!?

Over at the germanshepherds.com they have an old thread about running with their dog while he's wearing a prong, and all of them say they do it without any problems, some use it in dead ring mode. I suppose that's better. However I am still not convinced that it is a good idea. Case in point, see the video above and read the description included. It just seems way too risky, and that's when accidents happen. BUT I absolutely agree with Hector in that "before you start jogging with your dog, you should have good voice control over the dog. The dog should be attentive to your speed and be able to stop or turn on a command with no hesitation otherwise be prepared to be pulled."

 

[markwaynewolf]

I went to the pet store yesterday and it was mentioned to me that a easy walk harness could solve many of these issues. I however am not just going to blow money on a whim. Any one have experience with these? It seems better suited for running,walking etc. I'm just not sure if it works lol

 

[CeeCee]

Another option may be the Star Mark Good Dog collar. It's a modified prong collar.

Before I knew about this collar, I did ride a bike with Lila wearing a prong collar. She has good voice control but at the higher speed she was more likely to react if we passed a dog. We had no issues with the collar.

Because it doesn't have the space between the neck and the collar, this is a collar that shelters will allow dogs to wear in play groups.

http://www.petco.com/product/122262...Vx-0nAEd44G3x8Q1QvzpyiVjeEfE8I5U0LxoCsyPw_wcB

 

[ruthcatrin]

Easy Walk is a no-pull harness that uses a low riding front strap that you connect the leash to in order to control the motion of the dog when he pulls against the leash.

They CAN work, but some of these bigger dogs WILL pull right on through that too.

However a note with that style of harness, there are indications that because of how that front strap rides the dog those harnesses may cause injury (especially in younger dogs that are still developing) to their front end structure. If you use one at all I highly recommend NOT using it for anything other than walking. Find another solution for the running.

If you still want to try a non-prong solution you may want to consider a no pull head halter, they work on a similer concept to the easy walk, where the dog pulls and is turned, however if your dog is the sort of puller who LUNGES at things keep in mind that the head halters are going to whip his head around when he does, risking spine injury.

And yes, in case it wasn't obvious EVERY training tool out there has injury risks. You have to evaluate what you need done, and your dog's behavior and temperment, in order to tell which one is right for you.

 

[Hector]

I went to the pet store yesterday and it was mentioned to me that a easy walk harness could solve many of these issues. I however am not just going to blow money on a whim. Any one have experience with these? It seems better suited for running,walking etc. I'm just not sure if it works lol

The fit was poor for my mastiff and I didn't like it on my belgian.

 

[Alla Zilberg]

Prongs are a great tool and there is nothing wrong if you jog with a prong on your dog. Just make sure to fit it correctly

 

[mountainfila]

On a side note, personally I hate choke chains as much as some people hate prong collars. And one reason why I hate them, and won't use them, is because they simply do not work and seem to cause more stress for me as well as for the dog.

In the beginning when I got Luther (he was 14 months old) and he was not leash trained, someone suggested using a choke collar, but as soon as I put it on him, he didn't even skip a beat, kept pulling just as hard as on a flat collar except this time he would make choking noises, leash corrections were impossible to do, and I decided then and there that I HATED the choke collar and would never use it again. IMO it was useless, seemed to be harming the dog, and was throwing me out of the zone - I was too distracted with the choking noises and could not focus to work on training him to walk properly. Next was the martingale collar (leather and chain), which in all honesty was not much better then the flat collar as far as walking him went. And finally I said enough and that's when I got the Herm Sprenger training/prong collar with quick release snap (3.25 mm) and a short/traffic lead. I did my research on how to properly fit it, and use it. And within a week I could walk Luther without straining my arm, looking back I can't believe that I walked him that first week in spite of all the pulling he did; but somehow I did because I was obsessed with walking him at least once a day. Now I walk him twice, and he walks in heel on a loose leash.

Hopefully, once you get your CC to walk properly while wearing a prong, it will eventually translate into running without one. Remember, time and consistency in training are your friends.

It appears that you didn't know how to use a "choke chain", just because it says choke doesn't mean that is what it is supposed to do to the dog. Im sure if you had of been taught how to PROPERLY use one, you wouldn't have had to resort to a prong. I have used a choke chain for 30 years and have never had a dog make a choking sound yet or injured my dogs neck. I would also have to say every pic I look at with dogs wearing prongs, they are all on incorrectly, they are all down around the base of the dogs neck, it should fit very snug up behind the ears. If it is snug enough even with loose skin it should only move down the neck a little. And I would also have to say about 90% of the people using these kind of collars have no idea how to use them either, they go to petsmart or are told by a friend to use one, so they just go get one and put it on the dog with no knowledge and think it is going to solve all their training problems. I do not like prongs as I think they are a lazy mans training tool.

To me what ever collar you decide to use , make sure you know how its suppose to fit and how it works and how to use it by a professional , not a person who THINKS they know how to use one.

 

[markwaynewolf]

The fit was poor for my mastiff and I didn't like it on my belgian.

I tried it on at the store and it didn't look like a good fit but I didnt have enough time to really adjust the straps completely.

Thanks everyone for the input ! I figured this was a great place to get advice from those who had experienced the same issues as in in the past. I appreciate it and the continued advice, I do look into everything said.