Odds of getting an agressive EM

[eblans]

We currently have a 14 year old rat terrier and a 12 year old chow/rot/lab mix that are great dogs. They are getting up in years so we decided to add another member to the family. I knew a couple of people who had EMs that were the sweetest dogs I have ever met; even the first time I met them. I saw an ad for EMs from a breeder nearby so I decided to do some research. Everything I read said how they are sweet, laid back gentle giants and great family dogs. So we went and met the breeder, pup’s mom & dad and the 2 week old pup. Mom was the sweetest thing. She put her head right in our laps and didn’t care at all that we were holding her pup. Dad was a little shy and not as outgoing. The breeder said he was leery of men. So we went home did a little more research, mostly all positive, and then went back few days later and made a deposit. But a strange thing happened after I made the deposit. It seems many of the articles I read after the deposit said the opposite of the ones I read before the deposit. Puppy aggression issues like excessive biting, food aggression, and other dominance issues. Now I am hoping we made a good choice. We don’t have experience with EMs and I know we will have some challenges, but we do have dog experience. My wife raised many dogs including the two dogs we have now before I met her and I have raised stable huskies, a germ shepherd, lab, and a shar-pei. It is very confusing to read on the internet vastly different philosophies on the nature of the EM. We will pick up our new addition on Aug 11 (8 ½ weeks old). I know I am fighting a dragon that doesn’t or may never exist, but I am just curious what current EM owners or breeders feel the odds are of getting an aggressive EM.

 

[Molosserlvr]

The odds of getting a stable dog are greatly increased when you buy from a reputable breeder. In addition to researching the basic temperment of the EM, did you research what a good breeder looks like? A good breeder should be breeding to better their chosen breed. The basics of bettering a breed are health testing (hips, elbows, heart, thyroid, etc), an understanding of their breed's standard and how to improve the traits of their dogs, participating in shows and/or working sports to prove that their dogs are worthy of being bred, etc. In short, they are more interested in improving their stock than in making money or cute babies to sell/give away to whoever wants them.

If you are confident that the breeder you are buying your puppy from is truly improving the breed, then you most likely have nothing to worry about. Otherwise, I would pass. Hope that helps

 

[eblans]

I appreciate the advise and unfortunately, I didn't look at what you suggested. I can tell you that she is just a small backyard breeder who owns 4 EMs herself and is this female 4th and final litter. I guess because all dogs I have owned prior to this were rescues and I had no idea about their histories, I felt comfortable at the time with what I saw when we visited the breeder. I have never actually forked more than $50 for a dog until this one. Plus, I guess I rushed into things wanting to get the last fawn she had while it was available. I have put a large deposit down that I doubt I would get back if I backed out of the deal. Well, I guess I will have to take my chances and see how things work out. But I appreciate the advise and will live and learn from it. I may be back for advise if it doesn't go wellray:

 

[Tink33]

Alot of the temprement of any dog is based on the socialization, time you spend with them. Our EM boy is just a big slobbery lap dog (@ 225 lbs) We could not have asked for a better mannered dog. He is super easy around our girls and our Shih-tzu. He does get protective with strange men who come around the house. If I had the room I would have another one. They are just the best dogs!

 

[AdrianVall]

Well, I would just do a LOT of socialization with your new pup. Make sure he gets to meet a LOT of people, and experience new things, different enviroments, ect ect..

 

[kjaj]

They are just like most breeds of dogs, There require socialization, training, discipline, exercise, and affection. If you give your EM those things they will most likely act just like any other dog. However just like any other dog they can have aggressive behavior, which usually have early warning signs. I would suggest reading up and knowing the early signs of aggression in dogs that way you can address it if and when the signs appear. As far as the Deposit goes most deposits are considered non refundable unless otherwise stated in a contract. Personally I am happy with my EM i wouldn't trade her for any other breed of dog. Make sure you post pictures when you get it. One other thing if it is a local breeder for you, the more time you spend with the puppy before you take it home the easier the transition will be for it.

 

[eblans]

I appreciate all of the advise from everyone. I definatley plan to socialize as much as possible as I have always done with my other dogs. I have never allowed my dogs to eat until they sit and wait until I give their food and tell them it is ok to eat. It has worked so far to prevent food agression. I already have play days arranged with dogs of friends and neighbors, one who has a stable bull-mastiff and the other two stable great danes. I also plan to take him to obedience training to enhance his training and for more socialiization. I took two weeks vacation time to work with him during his intial two weeks with us. Unfortunately, and I know it is not ideal (he will only be 11 weeks by then), but after that he will have to be kenneled for about 6 to 7 hours a day, 4 days a week because my wife and I both work. I am always home 3 days a week. So, hopefully he will do ok.​

 

[eblans]

Thanks Kjaj, The breeder is local and we plan to visit him each week. Here is a pic of Sarge at 2 weeks. He will be three weeks this Sunday.

 

[Molosserlvr]

As much as I dislike the idea of money going to a byb, I wish you the best with your new puppy; He is adorable

 

[eblans]

Thanks Molosserlvr, I appreciate the education. I will do my best with this guy and try to help educate others as I learn.

 

[Dogue]

Hopefully it all works out for you. It takes work and you should be fine if you spend time with your Mastiff and set up your rules early. It takes them about two years to reach maturity. Miel was (my DDB) a handful when she was a puppy but calmed down after a year and two months. Mastiff puppies like to play (a lot rougher than a lab, chow, shar-pei), tug, and bite their toys. They will also come to you and try to gnaw on your feet, hand, etc. (all dogs do this, but some people panic because they're Mastiffs and think they're gong to turn on them when they get older). Mastiff puppies might even play bite with you when you're playing. It's very easy to correct. Even the food dominance issue is easy to correct ... you have a puppy. Mastiffs are dominant dogs; that's something you half to accept. All mollosers are gaurd dogs that will protect their families. Miel gaurds fanaticly (even when she is sick/hurt). They were bred for this; it's in their DNA. As a rsult, they're going to be intense puppies. But they do calm down and I'm sure your EM puppy will mature into a relaxed calm EM like you imagined. Read as much as you can. Hopefully your puppy works out.

 

[hman]

The odds will be very low if you deal with a reputable breeder.

If you get a good dog from a top breeder, human agression will not be a problem if you socialize and train the dog correctly.

Dog agression is not uncommon in working dogs and you may have to deal with it regardless of your dog's temperment with people.

H

 

[eblans]

Thanks Dogue and hman. I am sure I will be pinging all of you from time to time for advice once Sarge comes home.

 

[jen_mccorkle]

My EM (14 months old) is a first for my husband and I; We've always gravitated to german shepherds and a rottie. One thing we learned through trial and error is start training as soon as you can. Zeus, our EM, is around 160 lbs and 'wrestles' with our rottie, but he does not have an aggressive personality. As with any puppy/dog, they're pretty playful and like to test their boundaries and as the owners, you have to let them know what's acceptable and what is not. For the most part, our EM is very CHILLED out and pretty lazy. He loves being around people and other animals. Be cautious though, because other animals are intimidated by the size of an EM and get snappy. It's more so aggression from other animals than our EM. We have had some issues with him chewing whatever he could get his mouth on after quickly destroying his toys. To combat that issue, we bought plenty of durable, rubber chew toys (like these: http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4316563&lmdn=Dog+Toys) and haven't had issues since. Another thing we've learned through our puppy is that he's pretty skiddish with new noises, people, etc. When he gets freaked out, he pees everywhere...he has gotten alot better since he's gotten older, but it still happens from time to time. Also, as a puppy, make it a habit to have designated hand towels for drool and wipe their faces often. Eventually it becomes part of their daily routine and they know after eating/drinking, they need to wipe their mouths. Our pup LOVES a routine as far as feeding and bathroom breaks go. If we don't stay on his routine, it throws off this whole schedule, kind of weird but routines work for our pup.

Exercise: PLEASE be careful when exercising your mastiff. My husband and I took Zeus to visit my mom and play with her dogs when he was about 6 months old. He ran and played outside for most of the day (like most dogs do) but by the next morning, his front right leg was so swollen that he couldn't bear weight on it. Of course we rushed him to the vet, $1000 later, no broken bones, just a bad strain but we got chewed out by our vet. She (not so nicely) informed my husband and I that we were negligent owners who obviously didn't do our research (although we did) because EM can only exercise roughly 20 minutes a day. Due to their large frames, it's really hard on their bones to run around like a lab or retriever would. It's hard to stop a dog who is playing and enjoying themselves, just be cautious of how strenuous their exercise is and pay close attention to any signs of limping or whimpering.

I think you've made a decision in getting a mastiff. They may require more focus and training attention than your other dogs but are well worth it! They are the sweetest dogs I've ever been around.

 

[eblans]

Thanks Jen,
I appreciate the advice and will keep everything in mind. Both of my dogs are old now so they probably won’t be playing much with Sarge. But my son has two young lab mixes that love to run and play, so I will have to watch his exercise level when they get together. We have been stocking up on drool towels. My Shar Pei was a messy drinker and I always had to wipe his mouth too. So we are prepared for that part. I have a couple of questions though. Just curious if you ever take Zeus to Pets Mart public places and if so, how well does he handle it. I plan to do that to try to get him used to people and different noises. At what age did he really start chewing a lot? I definitely plan to keep a lot of toys around.
Thanks Again

 

[jen_mccorkle]

We take him to Pet Smart and other public outings as much as we can! He LOVES the attention. The only issue we've had is if people approach the back of my SUV while he's still inside; It freaks him out and he'll pee. As long as he's out of the car when strangers approach, he's completely fine. As a puppy, he was a little skeptical with new places/people but would warm up to them pretty quickly. In those situations, we continually give him positive praise and our support, and he does really well overall. I would say the chewing started around 6 months. I think his chewing issue was more so separation from my husband and I rather than being bored, at that age. He started chewing just for the heck of it once he got use to being without us. It took a few months to break him of that habit but well worth the extra training.
Feel free to ask anything you have questions!

 

[Cody]

Although I don't have an EM, I can say that socialization with any large working breed is imperative.
Take them to as many places and expose to as much as possible as soon as possible.
Sitting outside coffee shops is always great, pet stores, hanging out in the front of places like Walmart where there are lost of people and carts, playgrounds, parks, fairs and out door markets. Drop metal bowls on the floor in your house close to them, just get them used to sudden loud noises and people.
The more you expose to at a young age the less of a risk you run with them being Fearful in the future. That is more of a concern then aggression, more bites are due to a fearful unsocialized dog then aggression, which is actually relatively rare.
The more people they interact with the better their confidence in the long run.
Have fun with your pup and just do as much as you can

 

[eblans]

Thanks Cody

That is the plan; to expose him to as much as possible.

 

[kjaj]

One of the things you want to be careful of with public places is Parvo. I would recommend waiting till he has had all thier vaccinations before starting public socialization that way his immunity is fully built up. If you go before then make sure you don't set him on the ground in public places, so carry him around the store.

 

[Cody]

See this is something I disagree with, I would wait until after the second round, and not take to any high risk areas such as dog parks. But there are WAY more dogs that are PTS or dropped in shelters due to poor socialization then dogs that contract Parvo. I am not saying take stupid risks, but they have a pretty good immunity after round 2, and I personally wouldn't wait until my pup was 4 months to socialize.
I take our girl to places where there are lots of people and action, save the dog socializing for after the last round.