Is Anyone Here Actually a Trainer/ Advice for Prospect Trainers?

[Vantage]

Is anyone here actually an active Dog Trainer or Behaviourist? Did you "self-study" or did you actually attend a dog training "school" or academy?

I know the basics of dog training, and continue to read books and educate myself. However, I want to work with dogs, I want to train dogs, and I am wondering if it would be worth the (possibly huge -4figure) price tag to attend a Dog Trainer-Training Class/Course? Or if I would be better off continuing to self-study (through Books and DVDs), and offer to work with other's dogs and at shelters and go that route?

If you have attended a school, where did you attend and did you find it worth your time and money doing so? I was looking at a Local Training Academy (who has a training facility that works with all dogs, including working and sporting dogs, IPO, Agility, Etc.). I also checked out Karen Pryor's Academy and a few others online. There CPDT, where you just study and take the test? I'm really not quite sure how to go about this right now?

I know I can easily train a "blank slate" (A Puppy) who knows nothing (or even retrain a dog), through Positive Reinforcement and Clicker Training, the basic training commands (Sit, Down, Come, Heel, Watch Me, etc.) As well as teach thresholds, housing-breaking, etc. So should I just offer to train peoples dogs for free or cheap to get experience and/or volunteer at shelters? Or should I first go down the road that is a training school?
(There is no reason I can not go to a school and volunteer at a shelter, but I'm just trying to figure out what to do with the big picture.)

I am currently in University studying Accounting, but It's not quite what I worked it out to be, and lately the thought of being able to work with dogs trumps the thought of a nice pay-cheque in a not-so pleasant environment. A few years back the thought of Accounting really appealed to me, but lately not so much.

 

[Boxergirl]

My daughter is a licensed vet tech and is pursuing her specialty in behavior. She will also be attending the Karen Pryor Academy after she takes care of some current health issues. She does many online classes that count toward continuing education, is Fear Free certified, and worked with a behaviorist for the majority of her externship. We are positive reinforcement, clicker trainers, hence her choice of schools. She is currently training a boxer pup that will be her diabetic alert and response dog.

You should know that training dogs probably won't pay your bills. Most trainers that she has worked with have a day job and do training in addition to that. Training is also less about you working with the dogs and more about working with the people. There are no credentials needed to be a dog trainer, but I wouldn't go to anyone that hasn't done some type of continuing education in behavior and training. I might hesitantly suggest that you finish your accounting degree and work with a mentor for the training side of things when you have time. Sometimes simply having a degree, in anything, opens up a lot of opportunities.

I wish you the best of luck. I know that for my daughter, training is a passion and she'd do it for nothing. Unfortunately a steady and adequate paycheck is necessary for paying those darn bills. Maybe something here will give you more information.

https://apdt.com/resource-center/career/

 

[Hector]

I am not an official dog trainer, but I do work with a lot of dogs doing nail trims and training. I started 2 yr? ago when I reached out to a local rescue lady to help me with Hector's dog reactivity. I needed her stable dogs to allow me to work my own dog, so it kind of just took off from there. She trusted me to work with messed up rescue dogs that came in and so I was able to apply a lot of things I learned online. Not everything is black and white, you learn to tweak methods, combine methods, lots of playing around until you find out what works for the dog and what doesn't. You get lots of hands on experience and I think that is the biggest part in dog training is the hands on experience. You can read all you want. You can watch all the videos you want. There is nothing like hands on experience. Each dog is different. Each situation is slightly different. The application of each method is slightly different. Every owner is different.

I don't do basic obedience. I don't have time to do basic obedience. I do mostly leash reactivity, aggression/reactivity fear issues, group training and socialization. . A very common issue owners face is pulling on the leash. Pulling creates a lot of reactivity problems. Once we teach them how to apply door manners, structured walking, leash mechanics, engagement/focus with body movement, timing of corrections and rewards, a lot of the reactivity goes away.

I watched a ton of youtube videos - positive reinforcement, balanced, and punishment based, bad ones, good ones, vlogs, Q&Aa, instructional, all sorts. I used to subscribe to bowwowflix.com,but found that youtube videos from certain trainers were more useful and less time consuming.

I would like to do some sort of apprenticeship if possible, but I'm not really into the schooling thing. I'm all hands on/visual so I would say no to the schooling as your first go to learning about dog training. Get out there and get your hands on different dogs. Apply things you've learned whether it is from youtube or books or a dvd. The school you want to go to will be determined by the methods you believe in and the results you get from working dogs. Also the types of dogs you are drawn to or /good with are also going to determine which schools are right for you. I personally like to work with fearful dogs and don't like high strung dogs.

Try contacting shelters, rescues, contact local trainers, advertise for dog walking and see if anyone will let you work with dogs or be mentored. Ask friends/family to train their dog. It could be something as simple as pulling on the leash. Also, you won't be able to help every dog you come across whether it's beyond your skill level or because the owners won't listen. Some people cannot be helped and some of those people's dogs have the worse behavioral issues so don't be afraid to pass.


As for the free training. I've been there, done that. It is very time consuming and if you work full time and the other person works full time, it is hard to get together especially if you are working rotating shifts like I do. The thing about free training is that you will get a ton of requests and not a whole lot of dedicated people so you end up wasting a lot of time and energy. I guess that's true for paid training too lol. I'd say about 30% of the people actually put in the work and update and want to follow up with more sessions. Some you never hear from. Some say that their dog is much improved after 1 session and they are happy , BUT a lot of people give up way too soon because people are busy and dog training is just not that important.

 

[Vantage]

I appreciate the replies.

I'm sticking with accounting, I know it will be the best thing for me long-term. But I am going to continue to see how I can pursue working with dogs as well. It's such a fine line between doing what makes you happy and not working for the money, when reality hits and you have living expenses. Warren Buffet said, 10x or 20x is not always better than x, if you are much happier doing x.

When I think about it I agree, simply being a "dog trainer" most likely won't pay the bills. You need more, whether it be a super popular youtube channel, a store selling merch, specialized/high-end clients (celebrities?), working with competition dogs, agility, protection , or being the next Karen or Michael or Ed. I guess those are the people who held in there for so long and worked their way to the top. I was looking into PSA before I got interested in IPO, and people charge upwards $700+ for 4-6 sessions of PSA work.

Hector, I was looking at to get a bow bow subscription for a little bit, they have a few dvds I want to watch. (It will be much cheaper than purchasing each one separately!) But yeah, youtube has a lot of great information, you just have to dig through it. I was almost going to volunteer with someone I was talking to (who worked with aggressive dogs) but it didn't really end up working out. I just have to keep trying. I did contact some shelters, but maybe because it is summer they are all full? They did say to come back in a few weeks, so I'll see how it goes then.

You pose a good point on the "Free" aspect of training. It reminds me of something Tai Lopez said (Sure you can hate him if you want, but he's a smart man who has what he has for a reason.) which was something along the lines of, "Don't give people things for free because they won't value it. If you have tickets you don't plan on attending, don't just give them away but ask for 20-30-40-dollars, that way the person who takes the tickets will be some what more obliged and (appreciative?) of them."

 

[Hector]

I wouldn't just dive into psa/ipo training nor would I just dive into working with aggressive dogs. I mean there are so many other things you need in your toolbox before you try and dive into that area. Learn how to motivate dogs. Learn how to engage dogs. Learn how to proof commands. Learn how to teach some tricks/shape tricks. Learn how to teach a dog to listen. Learn about leash mechanics. Learn how to read dogs. Learn about timing. If you can't find anyone to work with, then choose a shelter dog and give the dog some skills that would make him/her more adoptable something as simple as nothing in life is free concept. Use what you know and apply it and you will learn a lot just from that. Dog training does pay if you want to make it work and if that's what you want to do, but you also have to have good people skills which is where I fail lol. My rescue partner does all the talking and I do the work.

You might be thinking too far ahead and thinking too much. Start local, start small. Fostering might even be a good idea. First step is to get your hands on a dog. Record yourself working. People like to see videos.

 

[Boxergirl]

Also take a look at Tawzer Dog for video rentals. Udemy has some Ian Dunbar seminars that are good and they have sales pretty often.

 

[Hector]

Btw, Karen and Michael and Ed are very different people and their training philosophies are very different...

 

[Vantage]

Thanks Boxer, I'll take a look. I believe I have heard of Tawzer before. I have an Ian Dunbar film on my hard drive I may watch after I finish "The Power of Playing Tug with your Dog by Michael Ellis". I watched some of Ellis's other puppy and working dog stuff, but Ian's more scientific? approach is a nice change in perspective.

I was just saying that there were more "specializations" in dog training which usually cost more and would make it a more viable career than solely doing basic obedience. (Ie. PSA classes and Agility classes are more expensive than basic obedience.)

When I mentioned those names I meant that they have made careers for themselves in this field (Ed and Karen are like day and night haha), and they are amongst some of the best at what they do. If anyone wants to be a trainer, I feel they should strive to be that good and nothing less. (And that goes for anything you do in life.)

The shelters around me require orientation which they are not holding for a few weeks, so in the mean while I was contacting local trainers and day-cares to see if anyone else needed a hand.

Hector, guilty as charged.... One thing I do to much, is over analyze :$. It can be good, but it can also pull me back.

 

[Hector]

I'll have to disagree that Ed is a good trainer. He's a good saleman. I at one time owned a series of the leerburg videos and looking back they were not worth the investment. Spent hundreds of dollars when it didn't teach me much. Learned much more watching youtube and working my own dog. Learn from youtube people like Stonnie Dennis, Tyler Muto, Jeff Gellman, Sean O Shea. I have many more names with good videos, but I would need to look on my youtube list lol. I can't remember off the top of my head. There are good positive reinforcement youtubers too. It all depends on what types of videos you prefer or if you choose to remain open minded.

 

[Hector]

Do you know what your training style is or prefer? What kinds of dogs or problems have you worked with and had success with ? What kinds of dog personalities are you good with?

 

[Hector]

What are your go to tools? What tools do you know how to use? Are you familiar with a marker system? How much training have you done with your own dogs?

 

[Vantage]

I find Ed's stuff to be very subjective, some of his points are great, some I would argue against (mostly those where he is being questionably harsh). I prefer to use a simple flat collar and leash with mostly positive reward based training, positive reinforcement, negative reinforcement. I use marker training - so basically clicker training without a clicker yeah?

I'm not totally again using corrections, but I think it depends on the situation and the dog. I have not really used physical corrections very much at all, or if it happens it is a light correction and usually a self-correction. (Ie. the first time the dog saw a squirrel and was on leash on a pole, he ran and corrected himself essentially.) However, I can understand in more extreme situations if it may be necessary, but if you can do without, I feel that's better. I prefer to just use a Negative Market "No" instead.

I have not really had any major experience with aggressive, dominant-aggressive, or fearful dogs, but that is something of interest to me. I've been finding it quite fun learning about dog's body language, how they act and all the signals they give off (that usually go undetected) before they react to something, and learning about different methods to help these problems. This is part of the reason I would like to volunteer at a shelter, first and foremost to help dogs and secondly to be able to see and apply what I am learning, and to learn new things first hand.

I have trained a handful of dogs, family member's puppies, a friends adult GSD and another friends adult Lab. Some was basic obedience, sit-down-come, some was housebreaking, and some was loose-leash walking and reactivity to squirrels and birds and stuff like that.

I do watch my share of youtube videos to, I specifically like; Stonnie Dennis, SolidK9Training, TheGoodDogTraining, Richard heinz (although he doesn't do much explaining), Tyler Muto, Leerburg (Has a lot of videos with different trainers), Kikopup.

Some other ones that seem to be decent, CanineTrainingSystems, BulletproofPitbulls, TrainingPositive, KristineCrestejo, BigDogsHugePaws (A Shelter with some Seminar videos), Zak George.

If you have a list of other good Youtub'ers I'd be happy to see who else you'd recommend. I did check out your Loose-Leash thread. (which is AWESOME btw!)

 

[Hector]

Sounds like you are ready to work some dogs!

Oh the loose leash thread eh lol. There were too many things on there and not too many of those methods work well for people as their first choice. Worked great for me and Hector, but I put so much effort and time trying to train him right R+ only because of all the stuff I read online how compulsion could ruin a nervous fearful anxious dog. Well now I know it's not true and not true for a lot of dogs that I've come across. Combining P+ and R+ works very well for a lot of people.

I don't watch as many youtube videos as I did before. I mostly watch what's on facebook and I like what Balanced Life K9 Training posts and she posts often. She provides good content.

But anyway here are some from the list of the people that actually post on a regular basis or ones that stand out to me.

Mixed

Canine Life Skills, pmpdogtraining, Josh Donahue, Wade MacVicar, Southend Dog Training, Ruff Beginnings Rehab Dog Training and Rescue, The Hyper Pup Dog Training, Jamie perinth, kinomad (has a couple of interesting body language vids with CAOs),

R+

Laurie Luck (nail stuff), Pam's Dog Academy, AniEd Ireland, Glasgow Dog Trainer (forum member here), 4paws university, Donna Hill, Domesticated Manners, eileenanddogs

 

[Hector]

Do you have any updates on how this is going for you?

 

[Sheila Braund]

I guess I'm self taught. I've trained dogs that where going to be put down. I've trained old dogs and puppies too. And it's not true..... You can teach an old dog new tricks.....it's the humans that's hard to train

I will use both hand and voice commands..... I also use touch and sound for corrections. Yes it is amazing what a dog can say with their body language. I'm training Bella to track my grandkids. I find dogs need activities just like we do to develop their brain. Both the kids and dogs love playing hide and seek.

I would love to go to that training facility in Burlington Ontario to train. That trainer facility for security and law services.

 

[Vantage]

That's really cool! Tracking is one of those activities some people seem to find boring, but I feel it would be rather fun teaching.

I did put up a local ad, and went to help someone with their puppy. They seems to really like what I was doing and I realized a few things. It is dramatically different training a dog alone, vs training a human to train a dog. Using analogies that humans can relate to greatly helps the owner understand their dog better. And that I feel like I would benefit from being "certified" by some organization, vs just saying hey I'm a dog trainer with "so-and-so" experience.

@Sheila Braund - What is this training facility you speak of? I've been searching around but have not heard of this one? (Unless you are referring to Olympus?) Is it open to Civilians as well, or is it just for Law Enforcement/ Cadets? Could you pm or post a link or their organization name? (Thanks!)

I would have loved to go to Michael Ellis' school, but the US/CDN price conversion does not help what so ever right now.... maybe one day. There was also Tarheel, and Tom Rose which I was looking at, but I'm not 100% sure on getting on an airplane with my puppy to go to a training school in the states. In the mean time, I continue to read books, watch dvds, and watch as much as I can find on Ellis, because I really like his teaching style and he is great at explaining things.

I am currently looking at Olympus K9, they seem to have a very good rapport. I can not really find any other reputable "School/academy" in the Ontario (Canada) area? I don't want to pay $6-8k for Karen Pryors Clicker Academy, for example, when I can pay $12-14K and go someone else where they teach the whole "A-Z" (Tracking, Protection, K9 Handling, Kennel Care, Breeding etc.).

George Brown College Offers a Police-K9 certification course. That looks like it would be awesome to do, but I have no idea what so ever, about where I can take that certificate afterwards? (I mean, I can't just walk into a police division/station and say hey, I got my certificate now hire me.) Most K9-handlers have requirements to be in the force for X amount of years prior to being able to be in the K9-branch. I'm not necessarily looking to be a k9-Handler, but a police-K9-Trainer would be an amazingly rewarding career!

 

[Nik]

Those courses sound like a lot of fun. Then again I am obsessed with training and working with my dogs. Every new thing is fun and exciting for me and for them as well.

There was one here that was semi-local but not really local enough to be doable for us that was circus work training and I really really wanted to do the circus training with our dogs especially with how much Kahlua loves laughter. I just thought it would be so fun for them to learn all these circus tricks. They LOVE doing tricks and making us laugh and smile. Alas that class was just too far and also had an extensive waiting list.

If you do get into one of those specialized classes (protection, scent work, etc.) Please do share with us any insights you gain. I am always looking for new info and things to try out with my dogs and I know a lot of other members on the forum are the same way. :-D

 

[Sheila Braund]

That's really cool! Tracking is one of those activities some people seem to find boring, but I feel it would be rather fun teaching.

I did put up a local ad, and went to help someone with their puppy. They seems to really like what I was doing and I realized a few things. It is dramatically different training a dog alone, vs training a human to train a dog. Using analogies that humans can relate to greatly helps the owner understand their dog better. And that I feel like I would benefit from being "certified" by some organization, vs just saying hey I'm a dog trainer with "so-and-so" experience.

@Sheila Braund - What is this training facility you speak of? I've been searching around but have not heard of this one? (Unless you are referring to Olympus?) Is it open to Civilians as well, or is it just for Law Enforcement/ Cadets? Could you pm or post a link or their organization name? (Thanks!)

I would have loved to go to Michael Ellis' school, but the US/CDN price conversion does not help what so ever right now.... maybe one day. There was also Tarheel, and Tom Rose which I was looking at, but I'm not 100% sure on getting on an airplane with my puppy to go to a training school in the states. In the mean time, I continue to read books, watch dvds, and watch as much as I can find on Ellis, because I really like his teaching style and he is great at explaining things.

I am currently looking at Olympus K9, they seem to have a very good rapport. I can not really find any other reputable "School/academy" in the Ontario (Canada) area? I don't want to pay $6-8k for Karen Pryors Clicker Academy, for example, when I can pay $12-14K and go someone else where they teach the whole "A-Z" (Tracking, Protection, K9 Handling, Kennel Care, Breeding etc.).

George Brown College Offers a Police-K9 certification course. That looks like it would be awesome to do, but I have no idea what so ever, about where I can take that certificate afterwards? (I mean, I can't just walk into a police division/station and say hey, I got my certificate now hire me.) Most K9-handlers have requirements to be in the force for X amount of years prior to being able to be in the K9-branch. I'm not necessarily looking to be a k9-Handler, but a police-K9-Trainer would be an amazingly rewarding career!

Hi Vantage,
Yes I do believe it was Olympus K9, that I researched a couple years ago. I had to spend most of the morning googling this topic to try to remember the company name.... I'll keep looking just in case. I do know that you had to buy one of their dogs pre-trained and I do believe they were all King Shepherds..... I did watch lots of they videos to train my 6lb poodle to find my grandkids..... She loved it!
And I don't think they offered training school for people that wanted to be trained to teach..... I'll let you know if I find out anything else

 

[Hector]

So just wanted to give a small update on my end. I got to work with a year old goldie that has ptsd from being shocked by her own e fence. Unsure how long it's been since the shock, but the family has not been successful in trying to get this girl out of the boundary line for a walk. We used a prong collar and I first worked the dog and then showed the owners what to do. They can now take their girl out for a walk with no problems. Got a donation of $50 to the rescue.

 

[Sheila Braund]

So just wanted to give a small update on my end. I got to work with a year old goldie that has ptsd from being shocked by her own e fence. Unsure how long it's been since the shock, but the family has not been successful in trying to get this girl out of the boundary line for a walk. We used a prong collar and I first worked the dog and then showed the owners what to do. They can now take their girl out for a walk with no problems. Got a donation of $50 to the rescue.

That's awesome!

Here's a question how much or badly was this Goldie shocked? I have one of those electric wireless collars for Bella. She was buzzed a couple times on a lower setting with the beep warning. Now she here's the beep she comes back to me.

No shocking just tones and praise.... Lots of love. I also use the sssshhhhhh sound when she's doing something she shouldn't do..... It's more just to distract her from that behaviour. Once I have her attention away from that I give lots of love