friendly guard dog

[Araps]

I am also concerned on this subject. I recently got my Cane Corso, because the Saraplaninac i used to have protecting the house passed away. I spoke with my dog trainer, and he told me that we should start socializing the dog early, but in a controlled manner so she gets neither very aggresive or quite with strangers. However i am thinking that not knowing how my dog will react to that, i might be a little carefull, since as mentioned in previous posts, i mostly want the dog for me and my family, so when i leave her alone guarding my place, i know that no one will get near.
Any experiences with CCs on this subject?

 

[ruthcatrin]

I've also owned working LGD for years, and there are people who say LGD shouldn't be socialized either, yet my LGD worked fine even with lots socialization. Also, I'd like to point out, most of my LGD (Caucasian Ovchakra), who had 100s of hours of socialization, grew to be completely intolerant of strangers. So obviously socialization doesn't override everything.

Socializing your dog only build positive associations with positive things. It helps your dog have better judgment. PPDs work off instinct and are expected to make choices based on the environment. A dog who has not been socialized cannot possibly make good decisions and will most likely be over-stimulated in public - and therefore hyper vigilant or over threshold. That is useless.

.....

I need a like button. Brad I'm just going to make you do my explaining for me.....

 

[chuckorlando]

ahahahahahahaah

 

[ruthcatrin]

I am also concerned on this subject. I recently got my Cane Corso, because the Saraplaninac i used to have protecting the house passed away. I spoke with my dog trainer, and he told me that we should start socializing the dog early, but in a controlled manner so she gets neither very aggresive or quite with strangers. However i am thinking that not knowing how my dog will react to that, i might be a little carefull, since as mentioned in previous posts, i mostly want the dog for me and my family, so when i leave her alone guarding my place, i know that no one will get near.
Any experiences with CCs on this subject?

No CC specific experience, but a suggestion since you'd prefer a more reserved dog. Take her as many places as you can, just like for normal socialization. But don't allow people to pet her or give her treats without your express permission. When you DO allow it, give the dog a command (word of your choice, I'd suggest something along the lines of "safe" or something the like, probly not "ok"). It shouldn't take her long to figure out that the folks ALLOWED to do so are the ones you've indicated, but the exposure should keep her from freaking out indiscriminetly. On the same note I'd put extra effort into making sure that she understands that your regular vets/techs are "safe", or you'll have problems at the vets office, and that makes life hard.....

 

[Geisthexe]

Funny Ruth you want him to explain but yet you cut out his first statement about his Boerboel. His Boerboel is NO different then the explanation of Xade... Why?

I never said NOT to socialize, I stated not to OVER SOCIALIZE. I even did the example with Conan & Xade.
I have many many photos of Xade in a show ring. If she wasn't socialized I wouldn't be able to take her into a ring.
I have to tell her it's an OK PERSON for them to touch her.
She has won a best of show and 2 res best of show.
My Mali male won best of show pup and he is extremely a working Mali ..
Not to mention Xade & Conan's puppy

Xade sitting next to SchH judge.


Xade off leash in trial going thru crowd


Anabis (Conan & Xade pup) in the Monographica show ring 1st with a judge touching him .. He kept moving 3 mos old. Lol

Anyway thought I would share since I think you all believe I do not socialize .. I just DON'T socialize like you all bc I want a true working dog!


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[ruthcatrin]

I have worked and owned PPDs for years. The very best PPD I've ever owned was also the most socialized. He was initial suspicious of people, but friendly once he got to know them, however he never let his guard down and would engage that person if needed. He also happened to be a Boerboel.

This paragraph doesn't say anything different than the portion I quoted earlier, "the best PPD I've ever owned was also the most socialized". I just felt the paragraph on the LGD and the paragraph after it said it best since I'd been talking about TMs. Stop being argumentitive.

 

[kristen b.]

All of you have beens super informative. I understand now. Thank you.

 

[BradA1878]

I am also concerned on this subject. I recently got my Cane Corso, because the Saraplaninac i used to have protecting the house passed away. I spoke with my dog trainer, and he told me that we should start socializing the dog early, but in a controlled manner so she gets neither very aggresive or quite with strangers. However i am thinking that not knowing how my dog will react to that, i might be a little carefull, since as mentioned in previous posts, i mostly want the dog for me and my family, so when i leave her alone guarding my place, i know that no one will get near.
Any experiences with CCs on this subject?

You had a Saraplaninac? Cool!

I agree with what was written above, socialize your CC well. BUT... Focus on POSITIVE experiences. Don't take him to places where you risk him having a bad experiences (like a dog park).

[...] I never said NOT to socialize, I stated not to OVER SOCIALIZE. I even did the example with Conan & Xade.
I have many many photos of Xade in a show ring. If she wasn't socialized I wouldn't be able to take her into a ring.
I have to tell her it's an OK PERSON for them to touch her. [...]

Anyway thought I would share since I think you all believe I do not socialize .. I just DON'T socialize like you all bc I want a true working dog!

I don't think you can over-socialize a pup, unless you are doing it wrong. That's like saying "over-educate"... You can't be too educated.

Also, my dogs are working dogs, not show dogs. They actually work. So I'm not sure what a "true working dog" is if mine are not that due to their socialization. That's confusing to me.

Outside of dog shows and titles, what work does your dogs do? I'm curious... (not being argumentative, I'm truly curious)


Anyway, at the end of the day it's a personal choice. I personally prefer to socialize my working dogs very well so that they are less stressed in real world working situations. I know there are other who prefer the hyper-vigilance that comes with under socialization.

The point the OP should take away from all this is that a guard dogs doesn't have to be any one way - if they make you feel protected, and they will actually protect you (as in engage a threat), then they are a guardian whether they are friendly to strangers or not.

 

[Geisthexe]

Brad I don't want to argue either. My experience comes from training with many folks around the US. I have moved and moved to learn before I decided to settle down.
Many of our dogs in the working world have a minimal socialization like military & police.
You ask what my dogs do well I can ask you the same when you say they are real working dogs.
I have 2 that actually work: my female Presa & my female Mali, both are serious about there jobs, they truly would go after someone if needed. I like to test my dogs with other friends that are decoys. I do show to ONLY socialize them what a better place the. 100 people, 100+ dogs & all the noise.
I trial my dogs in sporting events bc I & the dogs enjoy it.
So what about you?
Who do you train with NM?
It's been said over & over we agree to disagree!


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[BradA1878]

So what about you?
Who do you train with NM?
It's been said over & over we agree to disagree!

Well, we recently moved to Flagstaff and I placed most of my working dogs as I don't need them here. I still have a female BB, one CO, and one Boz Shepherd. Unfortunately my male BB, Parka, passed away due to a accident.

When we lived in Taos we lived way out on the mesa by the gorge - off-grid. If you know anything about the west mesa area, you can understand why I had guard dogs. Also, we had predator problems. We run a preservation for the Kai Ken, and so we always have pups around... We had Eagle, packs of roaming dogs, Coyote, and Lion that would come into the yard to get them, so we had LGD (CO) who would keep those critters away.

Also, we had some hot springs at the end of our private road and a lot of the transients who lived in the Carson area would wonder down the road and bathe in the springs. They would rob places on the way, so that is why we had human-aggressive dogs too.

In the summers it was too hot for our CO, so we had short coated breeds (CCs, BBs) to guard during summer.

Also, my wife and I were always driving to Denver so our CCs and BBs would be our PPDs when we were traveling.

My wife is a dog trainer, so she worked with our dogs for basic training. I worked with a sporting dog group in Stana Fe and in Los Alamos. I've also worked with trainers from other areas, but most of my PPD training has been done with my BB's breeder (Tashi).

 

[Geisthexe]

I remember you saying you moved bc I still have your email. But I also remember you stating you didn't work with the Endeavor group(Los Alamos) bc at that time they would not work your dogs. And you also stated but now they are working with a mastiff .. I know them as I go to there seminars and have worked at some of there trials since they are a sporting club. I am joining there club.
That's great your dogs work keeping predators away when you where here. I also live on the other side of the mountain area and we have the same predators here. Haven't seen anything yet on my property bc I have the whole place fenced and I moved here when it started getting cold. It will be interesting to see them do that kind of work.
Anyway, glad you don't need the guard dogs in Flagstaff ... That's a beautiful place



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[Dogue]

Is an LGD a Cacausian Mountain Dog? Or does that just mean livestock guardian breed?

 

[ruthcatrin]

LGD or LGB is Livestock Guardian Dog/Breed yes, CO's are a LGB.

 

[BradA1878]

I remember you saying you moved bc I still have your email. But I also remember you stating you didn't work with the Endeavor group(Los Alamos) bc at that time they would not work your dogs. And you also stated but now they are working with a mastiff .. I know them as I go to there seminars and have worked at some of there trials since they are a sporting club. I am joining there club.
That's great your dogs work keeping predators away when you where here. I also live on the other side of the mountain area and we have the same predators here. Haven't seen anything yet on my property bc I have the whole place fenced and I moved here when it started getting cold. It will be interesting to see them do that kind of work.
Anyway, glad you don't need the guard dogs in Flagstaff ... That's a beautiful place

Yea, I have not worked with Endeavor in a long time. However, I worked a lot with one of the trainers who used to work with the Endeavor group (Jaime). She lives in Santa Fe and we started a smaller club there for working the sport dogs in the area. The Endeavor is nice, and they do have an EM now. It's nice they get to work with Ellis, he worked my CC a few times.

I miss NM very much.

Is an LGD a Cacausian Mountain Dog? Or does that just mean livestock guardian breed?

What Ruth wrote... My LGD are Caucasian Ovcharka (CO), also known as Caucasian Mountain Dogs (CMDs). They are an LGD breed, but there are many other types of LGD breeds.

 

[Geisthexe]

Yea, I have not worked with Endeavor in a long time. However, I worked a lot with one of the trainers who used to work with the Endeavor group (Jaime). She lives in Santa Fe and we started a smaller club there for working the sport dogs in the area. The Endeavor is nice, and they do have an EM now. It's nice they get to work with Ellis, he worked my CC a few times.

I miss NM very much.

Michael Ellis is awesome. So is Todd Dunlap one is his guys that worked under him.
I love the seminars
I am joining there club to help decoy bc there is only me & other guy here that are independent decoys so they use us I figured joining there club would make it easier.
I am making a PSA club here bc they don't have it and can't wait .. Also been working on creating the only "Working Presa Canario Association" our breed needs it and love the fact that the CCs and other breeds have there's
Few more things to finish and I will have it complete ..
Best of luck in Flagstaff .. Hopefully you and your wife will come back to NM. If you do please come visit my facility for dog training and club. Love to have ya




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[chuckorlando]

All of you have beens super informative. I understand now. Thank you.

Sometimes you just have to wade through the back and forth stuff. But we will get ya there in the end. ahahahahaha. Most important rule of owning one of these dogs..... Just love your dog and be happy to have em. The rest will work it's self out. If it dont, you'll at least learn what to try the next go around. I know I have an idea I would like to try with a another Fila. I want to go against the grain next go around

 

[masteneo]

Some dogs are more guardy than others, its a temperment issue, some have stronger guard instincts than others. I'm not sure its an either/or black/white issue.

So true. and you know i thought about that later after i had done got in bed and was going night night. but heck i figured you would help me out with that , lol

---------- Post added at 07:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:28 PM ----------

Now for Protection sports different story .. Most who get into the sports get into to have a fun thing with there dog and the dogs are highly socialized. Problem is they do not go to the higher status in the sport.

Key word being "sport" Another problem is will the stand in the paint when it's no longer a game... The problem with super social is you take the edge off the dog.

There lots of well trained fila's. But in my mind once you make a dog think about a job it was breed to do instinctively your playing with things I'd rather not. Thats not to say it's wrong. Just not a road I care to travel down with a single fila. Now if I had say 3 of them, I think it would be "fun" to try Schutzhund. But only with one dog. I truely think Schutzhund has some bad ass stuff going on. The control is amazing

Exactly on the super social thing. Its one of the reasons Chloe isnt going visiting anymore. I just dont want her friendly with everyone. Just the ole country in me, i guess

 

[masteneo]

Now for Protection sports different story .. Most who get into the sports get into to have a fun thing with there dog and the dogs are highly socialized. Problem is they do not go to the higher status in the sport.

Key word being "sport" Another problem is will the stand in the paint when it's no longer a game... The problem with super social is you take the edge off the dog.

There lots of well trained fila's. But in my mind once you make a dog think about a job it was breed to do instinctively your playing with things I'd rather not. Thats not to say it's wrong. Just not a road I care to travel down with a single fila. Now if I had say 3 of them, I think it would be "fun" to try Schutzhund. But only with one dog. I truely think Schutzhund has some bad ass stuff going on. The control is amazing

Exactly on the super social thing. Its one of the reasons Chloe isnt going visiting anymore. I just dont want her friendly with everyone. Just the ole country in me, i guess

 

[Geisthexe]

Now for Protection sports different story .. Most who get into the sports get into to have a fun thing with there dog and the dogs are highly socialized. Problem is they do not go to the higher status in the sport.

Key word being "sport" Another problem is will the stand in the paint when it's no longer a game... The problem with super social is you take the edge off the dog.

There lots of well trained fila's. But in my mind once you make a dog think about a job it was breed to do instinctively your playing with things I'd rather not. Thats not to say it's wrong. Just not a road I care to travel down with a single fila. Now if I had say 3 of them, I think it would be "fun" to try Schutzhund. But only with one dog. I truely think Schutzhund has some bad ass stuff going on. The control is amazing

Chuck have you ever watched a NVBK or KMVP .. To watch the environmental stress they put the dogs thru to see if they can cope is pretty amazing. I hope to get overseas someday to just watch. I have a friend in Florida who is working I. Bringing KNVP here. Ill be the first to wanna trial my dogs on it
Schutzhund is amazing on the strict manner of the dog but is quite boring bc it is all the same routine the dog has to do where the other protection sports are not.
I have decoyed and also been in a few mock trails (personal Protection) they are also neat to see bc of the stress, aggression and defense a dog goes thru.
Anyway just thought ya wanted to know and maybe look the up


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[Dogue]

Geisthexe, what other protection sports are there besides Schutzhund? There's a Schutzhund club in my area (Fontana, CA) and I met a decoy from that club. I would like to get involved as a decoy first and eventually getting my dog involved. However, the breed (DDB) I own would probably not be a good candidate, lol. I know there's something out there that focuses more on just protection. I guess that would be just level 1 and 2 right?