Cesar Millan: Opinion

[ruthcatrin]

Yup, first choking the poor dog when the dog's not doing anything, then right at 2:10, the dog's not reacting and he kicks him to get a reaction.....and then choking till the dog passes out...I'd have kept struggling too if someone was jerking on a choke chain for no reason like he was. THATS NOT HOW YOU USE A CHOKE COLLAR dammit.

 

[raechiemay]

Raechiemay, he was not pushing his hand in more, when a dogs bites you, you get pulled around and he was fighting back. If he would have submitted to the bite the dog would have probably let go a little fast.
When we decoy for dog bites we are first taught to stop and submit to the winning of the dog. And we are taught to fight to keep the desire to bite alive.

Of that makes sense to ya

Ahhh ok. Thanks for clearing that up! It looked a little strange to me at first but I watched it a second time just now & it makes sense.

 

[joshuagough]

Thank you for finding that video Mike.

I did see him kick the dog, the video is very pixelated. I assume he justified the kick because the wolf reacted to the other dog?

I agree kicking him was the wrong move. I have a lot of feelings against breeding wolfs & wolf-hybrids. They are beautiful dogs but I don't believe they can't be treated like your typical domestic dog, thus I don't really think it's a smart practice in breeding these. You see many listed on CL which I think equates to a recipe for disaster.

So outside of him kicking the dog, lets say he approaches the other dog. He doesn't kick the wolf, yet it reacts in the same fashion, what would be your next move to 1.) subdue the wolf/dog and 2.) correct the wolf/dogs behavior?

Here you go

 

[Geisthexe]

Mike you found t right before I did.. Thanks

I really hate this man... I do not say that word very often but he is one I truly hate and it has nothing to do with the fact I train it has to do with the fact he is a cruel person PERIOD!!

 

[DMikeM]

Josh actually he kicks the dog to elicit a reaction. The dog had not reacted badly until he stuffed his heel in it's gut.

 

[ruthcatrin]

I agree kicking him was the wrong move. I have a lot of feelings against breeding wolfs & wolf-hybrids. They are beautiful dogs but I don't believe they can't be treated like your typical domestic dog, thus I don't really think it's a smart practice in breeding these. You see many listed on CL which I think equates to a recipe for disaster.

I know of a couple wolf dogs, at least one medium to high content, who get along fine in society, and are fine with other dogs, in teh right situations. They DO require special handling and aren't for everyone, but neither are Fila's, and I don't think you're going to get away with stating they shouldn't be bred, at least on this forum. And regardless the dog's breed doesn't excuse the way CM handled it.

 

[DMikeM]

Think of that Wolf/dog that jumped my fence. He had no aggression he just wanted to get next to Jade and didn't even try to fight when Dozer attacked him. He just ran from Dozer and jumped back over the fence to get away.

 

[BugattiAlva]

I like CM. I personally use many of his techniques and have an angel puppy, coincidence? I don't believe so considering my neighbor uses the same techniques and his rotti is AMAZING. When u walk him the handling is amazing. His techniques are definitely not for everyone. I found myself using most of his techniques in the beginning, but now I hardly do, my pup can sense what I expect from him about 97% of the time. I live in LA which is where he does most of his work and personally know people that have worked with him and he's done wonders for them. Of course theres editing on his shows and stuff, it's television, but he's famous for a reason. He's just good. And he doesn't edit all his mistakes, if he did and wanted to show he was perfect, he would edit the bite incidents.
He is what I believe to be an expert in dog psychology because he grew up observing dogs being dogs. In Mexico dogs just roam around wild so he had the opportunity to experience that and use it to train them based on their natural needs and expectations. This is my reason for trusting his training ways

 

[joshuagough]

deleted

 

[ruthcatrin]

That's just dumb then, I couldn't really tell because you don't have two camera views.

What was the justification in that? Surely he explained something of the "why" he was doing it?

Watch the video, right at the 2:10 mark, the foot away from the dog, he kicks the dog behind his other leg.

 

[joshuagough]

I don't think a Wolf comparison vs a Fila is fair to either breed? Do you?

A Fila is "supposed" to be breed for a solid temperament (they don't take to strangers a given).. a wolf or a hybrid of such is sheerly wild. Over many years this will change but I still don't think it's a good move.. maybe I'm wrong.

"And regardless the dog's breed doesn't excuse the way CM handled it." - I agree with that statement.

I know of a couple wolf dogs, at least one medium to high content, who get along fine in society, and are fine with other dogs, in teh right situations. They DO require special handling and aren't for everyone, but neither are Fila's, and I don't think you're going to get away with stating they shouldn't be bred, at least on this forum. And regardless the dog's breed doesn't excuse the way CM handled it.

 

[allsierra123]

Yeah most of his cases are extreme though. Unstable dogs usually turning on there owners.Me personally I wouldnt waste time with them. They are usually genetically unsound to begin with. Do the kind thing put them down.

Sent from my HTC VLE_U using Tapatalk 2

 

[joshuagough]

I didn't catch that kick, that was the second one. The wolf was focused on the other dog and he was trying to get it's attention back on him.

Still not the right way..

Watch the video, right at the 2:10 mark, the foot away from the dog, he kicks the dog behind his other leg.

 

[ruthcatrin]

In their own way wolf dogs are predictable. You just don't understand them, making them appear wild. Yes as with any other 'breed' there are especially and especially bad apples. True the Fila has been deliberetly breed for what they are, prehaps a harder tempored TM would be a better comparison, still specifically bred but with that primitive aspect making them more comparable.

Yes I'd love to see the idiots breeding them as 'great pets' shot, but thats true of BYBs who do that with any breed.....

And at any rate thats a whole different argument...

 

[ruthcatrin]

I didn't catch that kick, that was the second one. The wolf was focused on the other dog and he was trying to get it's attention back on him.

Still not the right way..

Still not the way to do it. Move the dog on and regain his attention without kicking him. The dog's already proved reactive to force, wtf does he think he's doing kicking the dog....

 

[ruthcatrin]

I like CM. I personally use many of his techniques and have an angel puppy, coincidence? I don't believe so considering my neighbor uses the same techniques and his rotti is AMAZING. When u walk him the handling is amazing. His techniques are definitely not for everyone. I found myself using most of his techniques in the beginning, but now I hardly do, my pup can sense what I expect from him about 97% of the time. I live in LA which is where he does most of his work and personally know people that have worked with him and he's done wonders for them. Of course theres editing on his shows and stuff, it's television, but he's famous for a reason. He's just good. And he doesn't edit all his mistakes, if he did and wanted to show he was perfect, he would edit the bite incidents.
He is what I believe to be an expert in dog psychology because he grew up observing dogs being dogs. In Mexico dogs just roam around wild so he had the opportunity to experience that and use it to train them based on their natural needs and expectations. This is my reason for trusting his training ways

Well that explains why you were telling someone to alpha roll their human aggressive dog.....please don't.....

 

[joshuagough]

Great response, I agree with you on this with the exception of kicking the dog. I get the physical touch to "snap" the dog out of a focused state but you don't have to kick the dog.

I plan to go to one of his seminars if he ever comes to the south. Even if you disagree with someone's theory or opinion, it's always been interesting to me to understand "why they think that way".. right wrong or indifferent.

I like CM. I personally use many of his techniques and have an angel puppy, coincidence? I don't believe so considering my neighbor uses the same techniques and his rotti is AMAZING. When u walk him the handling is amazing. His techniques are definitely not for everyone. I found myself using most of his techniques in the beginning, but now I hardly do, my pup can sense what I expect from him about 97% of the time. I live in LA which is where he does most of his work and personally know people that have worked with him and he's done wonders for them. Of course theres editing on his shows and stuff, it's television, but he's famous for a reason. He's just good. And he doesn't edit all his mistakes, if he did and wanted to show he was perfect, he would edit the bite incidents.
He is what I believe to be an expert in dog psychology because he grew up observing dogs being dogs. In Mexico dogs just roam around wild so he had the opportunity to experience that and use it to train them based on their natural needs and expectations. This is my reason for trusting his training ways

 

[BugattiAlva]

I can't say I agree with everything he does, nor that I'm impressed per say. However I do think he has some good points in&around theory, all I know of him is TV & youtube vids.

Just like any other instant "star" they can be made out to be the best or the worst person in the world. I can also see some of his teaching creating a competitive market for other trainers which would get backlash from a revenue generation stand point.

I thought this interview (below) was pretty good. None the less good points from everyone. Keep em' coming.

[video=youtube;378kdehwan0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=378kdehwan0[/video]

I agree with you, trainers are very intimidated by him. I mean he has the attention of celebrities, which is an endless door of opportunities and $$$. Dogs are pretty physical, they don't tap each other and say "hey bill don't do that". Humans do, which is usually why people can't handle all the physicality of his training. You just can't win them all.

 

[ruthcatrin]

I like CM. I personally use many of his techniques and have an angel puppy, coincidence? I don't believe so considering my neighbor uses the same techniques and his rotti is AMAZING. When u walk him the handling is amazing. His techniques are definitely not for everyone. I found myself using most of his techniques in the beginning, but now I hardly do, my pup can sense what I expect from him about 97% of the time. I live in LA which is where he does most of his work and personally know people that have worked with him and he's done wonders for them. Of course theres editing on his shows and stuff, it's television, but he's famous for a reason. He's just good. And he doesn't edit all his mistakes, if he did and wanted to show he was perfect, he would edit the bite incidents.
He is what I believe to be an expert in dog psychology because he grew up observing dogs being dogs. In Mexico dogs just roam around wild so he had the opportunity to experience that and use it to train them based on their natural needs and expectations. This is my reason for trusting his training ways

I had to wait to post this to make sure I stayed polite.

A 'mistake' in reading a dog's body languauge resulting in getting bit can be an actual mistake. No one's perfect, it is however a mistake he makes fairly often (though it doesn't always result in a bite), hence why I don't believe its a mistake. However kicking dogs, not just once but repeatedly, as a regular 'training aid' is not a mistake. And neither is deliberetly choking a dog to unconciousness. Both are infact animal abuse. I can't wait to see some idiot on trial for animal abuse for choking his dog to unconciousness trying to claim, as a defense, that "Cesar Milan did it and said it wasn't cruel!" and "I was just training him!"

 

[Geisthexe]

Did you guys watch the third video I posted where his staff member states he provokes dogs with himself and his dog???