Angus Update - Demodex + ACL

Discussion in 'Health & Nutritional Care' started by QY10, Sep 27, 2014.

  1. QY10

    QY10 Active Member

    Angus started having the same negative effects from the Ivermectin that he had last time. So, we had to take him to the vet as the Dr was uncomfortable leaving it over the weekend or having him continue the medication.

    Very lethargic, huge dilated pupils, very thick stringy drool and he has only been eating 1 meal a day for the last week. It has been such a struggle to get him to eat. He refuses every breakfast and has actually been losing weight.

    The vet was uncomfortable continuing him on the Ivermectin because it adds up in the brain. She said that if even built up in his brain, he could start displaying severe symptoms and start having seizures. He is off Ivermectin for 5 days and then on topical Advantage Multi every 2 weeks until further notice.

    While we were at the vet, I had them check out his leg and she stated that he has partially torn his ACL and that his knee is quite swollen, which is something I had noticed. I noticed the inside of his leg was kind of enlarged and lumpy. She told me that it was his knee and it was swollen.

    Angus has injured his ACL before as a small pup (trying to imitate his Biological sister who is a fence jumper. He didn't make the jump and fell). The vet said that at this point, it's bad enough that if he can easily tear it further which will be a full blow. She also said that if he injures it again, it will be a full blow. She referred to his ACL as a "ticking time bomb".

    When will this end? :( :( :( :(
  2. Smokeycat

    Smokeycat Well-Known Member

    Poor Angus.
  3. angelbears

    angelbears Active Member

    This is supposed to be great for mites. It's Nu Stock. : Durvet Nu-Stock Ointment, 12-Ounce : Pet Itch Remedies : Pet Supplies

    I know of many dogs including Cane that has over come a torn ACL but it takes dedication to keeping him off that leg for a couple of months. Crate and on leash only. No getting up on furniture, no going out in the yard by himself. Always on leash. It's hard but it can be done.

    I'm so sorry things are so rough right now. Hopefully, things will turn around soon.
  4. Hector

    Hector Well-Known Member

    Ohh that sucks knowing how much Angus loves to roam and run!! Poor boy :(. At this point I would try hard to restrict his free activity and get him on that nu-stock and supplement if possible.
  5. QY10

    QY10 Active Member

    Thank you everyone.

    I will definitely get some of that Nu-Stock and try it out. I hope it works for Angus.

    I have totally restricted his activity. No playing, running, jumping, getting on and off furniture. If we are not home, he is crated and he is crated at night so that he doesn't try to jump on the bed (or destroy the house out of boredom). He only goes outside to potty while on leash and I ensure that he goes up the stairs very slowly (there is about 5 steps from the deck to the front yard).

    It kills me to see him this way. I miss my happy, excitable, energetic boy. He has literally been sleeping all day long on the couch. We just had to wake him up for dinner, which he is eating. YAY.
  6. Myre

    Myre New Member

  7. Penelope's Mom

    Penelope's Mom New Member

    Aww. Poor boy. :( give him hug from Miss P. (Even though she would be terrified of him in real life.) :p
  8. QY10

    QY10 Active Member

    AB, when Cane was healing were there any games that you played with him that helped deal with pent up energy/mental frustration?

    I find that Angus is very frustrated right now and is getting to be incredibly destructive. I try working on his obedience with him, but it doesn't seem to be enough. I had started taking him for quick, very slow walks around the property that lasted only about 10 minutes. I had read somewhere that this may actually promote the healing of his ACL. What are your thoughts on this?

    I fear what is going to happen when he's not feeling lethargic and drugged-up from the Ivermectin.

    Also, the vet said about 3 weeks or so should be absolutely restricted acitivity. I am wondering about Hydrotherapy after the 3 weeks to help him regain strength in his knee without the pressure exerted from having to be walking/running on it?

    Myre, very interesting read. If the Advantage Multi doesn't work then I will suggest this. He vet did not seem that hopeful about a topical treatment as his mites are already so far under the skin that the skin scrapings weren't even coming postive for them. They had to do a biopsy to officially find the mites. He was on the Ivermectin for almost 3 weeks though and there has been significant improvement, so the vet is HOPING that the Ivermectin worked well enough that the topical treatment can just finish the job.

    FM, I will pass on Miss P's hugs. Angus can be quite the charming young lad, so you never know! He might be able to charm and woo her enough that she isn't afraid of him. :p
  9. musicdeb

    musicdeb New Member

    I'm so sorry to hear about Mr. Angus. Poor little guy...poor mom... It's tough restricting activity but a necessary to keep him from injuring his leg any further.

    I hope you're on the other end of the tunnel leading towards healing. Titan and I send hugs & kisses to both you and Angus.
  10. Rugers-Kris

    Rugers-Kris Active Member

    I am sorry that you are dealing with this....So difficult. hope things turn around for you. I have no advice about the demodex. I was very lucky that Magnum had no issue with the Ivermectin although I hated giving it to him for so long. I hope things turn around for you soon. I do not envy you trying to keep him still.
  11. Siloh

    Siloh Member

    Oh, Q. I'm so sorry this is happening to your boy.

    Good luck with bed rest. Ham has been crated about 70% of the time, because it's hard to monitor him in terms of jumping on furniture etc. We took a gentle leashed walk yesterday and I used treats to ensure he would maintain a totally steady pace in spite of his energy.

    I've been giving Ham a lot of Kong and Nylabone toys to keep him occupied. Frankly, obedience stuff at this point does not keep him calm--he's so exhuberant.

    What seems to help the most with Ham's energy is car rides. He loves the stimulation of going out with us to see new places, and the back of my car all folds down so there's plenty of space to lay. The only thing about that is is ensuring he is either sitting or laying down in case I need to brake hard. I don't want to throw him forward.

    I don't know if any of that helps you. Mentally for us what helps is keeping firmly in mind that Hamlet needs to rest as much as possible so the future won't be so hard. :(

    Did the vet say what to do in the further future to prevent another blowout? I feel totally sheepish. Everyone here stresses the need to take precautions due to joints in these big dogs, and I was careful in some senses but in others I let Hamlet run and jump a lot, and when I say run I mean at a dead sprint. He loves to play fetch, and I think that's really what did him in. It's very hard for me to say but I think for the next several months I'll need to dial back those kinds of exercises and do more structured walking and try to keep him in the water more rather than letting him run full pelt. :(

    Keep us updated and give Angus a big smooch from me and Hamlet.
  12. Hector

    Hector Well-Known Member

    I came across this article and it was an interesting read:

    Physical Therapy for Dogs Rehab for Dogs in South Florida

    I'm trying to see if any of my dogs have straight stifles, but they are all sleeping..

    You can see the difference between correct and straight halfway down the site under hindquarters.
    CountryDogues - Dogue de Bordeaux FCI standard. We have owned and bred the Dogue de Bordeaux since 1999. For more information give Nick & Julie Fiorentino a call at 585-396-0005.

    So I wonder, does Angus have a straight stifle?
  13. ruthcatrin

    ruthcatrin New Member

    You really need to see them stacked, or as close to it as possible, to see how straight the stifle is. Your best bet is to stand them up, as stacked as possible, and have someone else take a standing profile shot from the level of the dog (think the sort of photo you see from show dogs)
  14. QY10

    QY10 Active Member

    Thank you musicdeb and Rugers-Kris.

    Rugers-Kris, you are soooo lucky that Magnum didn't have a negative reaction to the Ivermectin. There just aren't many options that are as effective it seems and even the vet didn't sound too hopeful about topical treatments for him.

    Siloh, I have been crating Angus a lot, too. He was never crated before (although he was crate trained), but now he cannot be out at night, when I'm not home, when I'm just not in the house etc...

    Angus has acquired a number of bones that seem to keep him pretty content. Until he starts throwing them around the house >_< haha

    You know, I didn't even ask about avoiding future injury, but I have to call them back re: the Advantage Multi, so I will ask then. Although, I suspect it will just be more structured exercise where I have a bit more control over what happens in the situation.

    When Angus was a puppy, he was given to me and I was told he was an American Staffy. My dad has an Amstaff and I have an English Staffy and so when he was a puppy, I let him play the way Thalia played. She is very tough and agile and just doesn't get hurt the way he does. As he got a little older, I learned that he likely had some Mastiff in him, but by that time he had already had an ACL injury.

    Even up until this point, I probably let him play harder than I should have. He just loves playing with Thalia so much and she does a lot of running and tumbling, fetch, sprinting... He just copies her. I just love to see him happy and he is happiest when he is running free or chasing after the ball. In that sense, I think I kind of let him down.

    Hector, I will definitely have to see about his stifles when he gets up from his nap. From what I can picture off the top of my head though, his legs MIGHT look like figure 3, which would be too straight.

    I wind if it would matter that he is still growing? Although, at 1.5 years old, he isn't likely to grow much more in height.
  15. QY10

    QY10 Active Member

    I should also add that Angus ate SOME of his breakfast today! YAY!
  16. QY10

    QY10 Active Member

    Oh, okay! I will try to get a photo when he's awake.
  17. Hector

    Hector Well-Known Member

    The best I will be able to do is look at them when they stand on the deck looking out, that's when they have their most natural stance and pretty close to looking like a stack.
  18. Hector

    Hector Well-Known Member

    Glad to hear he's feeling better.
  19. ruthcatrin

    ruthcatrin New Member

    Did your vet discuss Revolution as an option for the demodex? I know it can be used for treatment of it.
  20. ruthcatrin

    ruthcatrin New Member

    I can beleive that. I know Apollo self stacks very nicely when his attention is caught by something!

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