Stool

[angelbears]

Ruth in Franklin's case I agree. However with Giardia you can have intermittent soft stools There are a couple others in this thread that said they were having the same problem. Before I start changing foods I would rule out Giardia. Just like mites, Giardia is hard to detect but very common to puppies. It is usually not found in a routine fecal.

Giardia can be self resolving but it takes awhile. I think in some cases where people have changed foods a couple of times and then all of a sudden their dog gets better, it may not be the change in food but that Giardia has finally run its course.

IMO, I think it would be cheaper and quicker to rule out Giardia or other parasites then to constantly change foods. Here is a brief article on Giardia

https://www.idexx.com/pdf/en_us/smallanimal/snap/giardia/giardia-in-dogs-and-cats-quickcourse.pdf

 

[ruthcatrin]

Would a couple of drumsticks or chicken feet really hurt that much?

Your average bone in drumstick contains about 48 grams of bone, which means that you're adding an average of 4800mg (4.8grams) of calcium to her diet.

I've lost track of how much she weighs and which food she's on, but lets say 60lbs on the Acana duck and pear. According to their website that formula has 1.3% calcium, or 1.3g of calcium for every 100g fed. A 66lb dog should be fed between 270g and 400g a day according to their instructions, so 3.51g to 5.2 grams of calcium.

So giving her an extra chicken drumstick a day doubles her calcium intake.

She's less than 1yr old.

Are you TRYING to screw up her growth??

 

[ruthcatrin]

Ruth in Franklin's case I agree. However with Giardia you can have intermittent soft stools There are a couple others in this thread that said they were having the same problem. Before I start changing foods I would rule out Giardia. Just like mites, Giardia is hard to detect but very common to puppies. It is usually not found in a routine fecal.

Giardia can be self resolving but it takes awhile. I think in some cases where people have changed foods a couple of times and then all of a sudden their dog gets better, it may not be the change in food but that Giardia has finally run its course.

IMO, I think it would be cheaper and quicker to rule out Giardia or other parasites then to constantly change foods. Here is a brief article on Giardia

https://www.idexx.com/pdf/en_us/smallanimal/snap/giardia/giardia-in-dogs-and-cats-quickcourse.pdf

Point, but it wasn't really intermittent before. On the other hand a parasite check is generally quick and easy and not expensive to do.

 

[Penelope's Mom]

She's around 54 pounds, Ruth and 5.5 months old. I've heard of giving her bones to help firm her stool but haven't tried it yet.

 

[Penelope's Mom]

She is currently eating Pure balance salmon and pea, grain-free.

Pure Balance Grain Free Dog Food | Review and Rating

 

[ruthcatrin]

She's around 54 pounds, Ruth and 5.5 months old. I've heard of giving her bones to help firm her stool but haven't tried it yet.

Unless you're going to go raw, or unless you have a long talk with a nutritionist first, or untill she's grown....don't. The calcium content in bones is high, which is why in the PMR formula they're only 10% of the diet, and it would have the potentially to seriously screw with her health.

(yes I'm pissy about it. This is why vets HATE "online advice" and home-made diets. THINK before suggesting something!)

 

[Penelope's Mom]

Ugh, I'm so confused. lol

 

[musicdeb]

I read reviews on this dog food and some people posted their pups had soft stool before this food and it did improve over time.

 

[Penelope's Mom]

That would be good.

 

[musicdeb]

Dawn, take a deep breath. You are getting many opinions and suggestions and I believe you're on overwhelm. You are an fantastic researcher, do your research and form your own opinion.

 

[Penelope's Mom]

You know I just want to do what's best for her and you guys have all had way more experience with this than I have. Franklin never had digestive issues except for the one time he got sick and he could eat just about anything.

 

[musicdeb]

Of course you want to do the best for Miss P and you will.

 

[Lisa P]

We are going to the Vet tomorrow,I'll let you know if we find out anything! So frustrating! We have cleared up the skin issues by switching to grain free ,poultry free but not the chronic loose stools.going to have a fecal,rectal swab and maybe blood work.i will let you know what happens

 

[ruthcatrin]

Its hard going from a dog with a rock solid digestion to a dog who's clearly much more sensitive.

The thing to remember with adding things to a diet: by doing so you immediately change the ratios of pretty much everything involved. If all your adding is a couple spoonfulls of something like pumpkin (basically anything thats not a concentrate, and bone is concentrated calcium), especially when we're talking dogs this size that eat this much, you're not going to change things to much. But the more you add the more you potentially screw with the numbers. And sometimes thats ok, but sometimes thats not.

Concentrated stuff, inclulding bone and vitamins, can have an affect even at fairly small amounts. And if we're talking a small/toy breed? Don't add anything without doing either a massive amount of research or talking to a nutritionist!

 

[Penelope's Mom]

Good luck, Lisa! I think Penelope might not be too far behind.

Thanks, Ruth.

 

[Hector]

Your average bone in drumstick contains about 48 grams of bone, which means that you're adding an average of 4800mg (4.8grams) of calcium to her diet.

I've lost track of how much she weighs and which food she's on, but lets say 60lbs on the Acana duck and pear. According to their website that formula has 1.3% calcium, or 1.3g of calcium for every 100g fed. A 66lb dog should be fed between 270g and 400g a day according to their instructions, so 3.51g to 5.2 grams of calcium.

So giving her an extra chicken drumstick a day doubles her calcium intake.

She's less than 1yr old.

Are you TRYING to screw up her growth??

Why in the hell would I do that?????

It was a suggestion and it's up to FM to make the decision, not you. I mean seriously though how many people feed soley kibble and still get pano and screwed up growth. It was just a suggestion to get P back on track since she couldn't feed full amounts of kibble.

 

[ruthcatrin]

You didn't suggest it as a short term fix (which P doesn't appear to need ANYWAY since boiled rice and meat cleared her right up), and second you admitted you had no idea what sort of affect adding a drumstick might have. If you're going to recommend it you ought to understand the possible ramifications of it.

But hey, its just raw meat and bone thats always safe right?

Your right, it is Franklins mom's decision, but she's got even less of a clue as to the possible ramifications. Maybe after its all said and done adding bone to P's diet will be what it takes, but theres a heck of alot of other things that are less likely to do her harm to try first.

And no, science still hasn't completely figured out why some dogs have growth problems when others don't. They're fairly certian that genetics plays a not small part. But they have narrowed down that the calcium and phos numbers do play at least some of a part. And since thats something we as owners CAN control we should be putting effort into doing so as much as we can!

 

[Hector]

You didn't suggest it as a short term fix (which P doesn't appear to need ANYWAY since boiled rice and meat cleared her right up), and second you admitted you had no idea what sort of affect adding a drumstick might have. If you're going to recommend it you ought to understand the possible ramifications of it.

But hey, its just raw meat and bone thats always safe right?

Your right, it is Franklins mom's decision, but she's got even less of a clue as to the possible ramifications. Maybe after its all said and done adding bone to P's diet will be what it takes, but theres a heck of alot of other things that are less likely to do her harm to try first.

And no, science still hasn't completely figured out why some dogs have growth problems when others don't. They're fairly certian that genetics plays a not small part. But they have narrowed down that the calcium and phos numbers do play at least some of a part. And since thats something we as owners CAN control we should be putting effort into doing so as much as we can!

Yes true. I have no idea how the things I feed my dogs affect them except from going by their outward appearances. I don't know how much calcium they absorb or not. I don't know what nutrients they are lacking or not, but since they are look healthy and act healthy I'm good with that. For the longest time I still can't determine if the food I'm feeding them makes one dog a retard and the other an asshole.

To me, healthy poo is more important to me. I would not suggest anything I wouldn't do myself. I don't worry too much about #'s, but that's just me.

Hell, people including vets recommend Benadryl (and I use that on my dogs) all the time, but look what it did to vadersmom's dog. No one blamed Benadryl for her behavior until Zardac mentioned it as a possible cause.

If FM is concerned with the calcium intake, then disregard my post as Ruth noted it will make things screwy.

In all urgency though, I would take her to the vet and get it figured out even if she has to be on something like science diet. Diarrhea sucks for everyone.

I thought P was doing well on Pedigree?

 

[Hector]

Your average bone in drumstick contains about 48 grams of bone, which means that you're adding an average of 4800mg (4.8grams) of calcium to her diet.

I've lost track of how much she weighs and which food she's on, but lets say 60lbs on the Acana duck and pear. According to their website that formula has 1.3% calcium, or 1.3g of calcium for every 100g fed. A 66lb dog should be fed between 270g and 400g a day according to their instructions, so 3.51g to 5.2 grams of calcium.

So giving her an extra chicken drumstick a day doubles her calcium intake.

She's less than 1yr old.

Are you TRYING to screw up her growth??

Ruth, where do you get this calcium content # from? I want to know these numbers and where did you get the grams of bone of the drumstick?

According to this "website" the average calcium content in 100 g of chicken is only ~28.5 mg. I looked up a chicken wing (included as frozen) which would be about 38% bone content it comes up as 28mg calcium at 1 serving of 74 grams or am I not reading/using it correctly??

Nutritional Content and Calories (kCal) in Chicken, wing, frozen, glazed, barbecue flavored, heated (microwave)

Show Foods

and off of this website it says 100 g of bone = 5.5 g of calcium

Chicken Wings as a Calcium Source | Phoebes Tails

and I really don't understand this

bone content
neck, meat and skin 36%
neck, meat only 75%
wing, meat and skin 46%
wing, meat only 68%

Anyways you got me all curious, so please educate me.

 

[Penelope's Mom]

Hector, she did well on Pedigree for a few days then her "mud" started again. Because she's not allowed to have anything else, including treats, I'm convinced it's a food-related issue.

But, if I can't get this figured out before her appt next Wednesday, she's going to get a fecal check at the very least.