Sire of my pup

[Duetsche_Doggen]

9 months LOL!!! HS

 

[aceoutdoor]

Damn mix bred mongrels.

 

[dogman#1]

The v lip is a moot point as most of the cafib dogs that are being placed in shows have a v lip not a u lip, so whats the deal with that?? I seen alot of the dogs in the show that was streamed a couple days ago most of them had a v lip. I thought cafib has stated that it was a sign of mix breeding.

This statement is so incorrect I dont know whether you were joking or not... "Most" or was it like 1 or 2? Exaggerating w/o facts makes it difficult for the new person to gain proper knowledge. The tidbit that V lips are considered as a sign of mixed breeding is true but in and of itself is not a disqualification. The TRUTH is that it is a fault and IF there are several other signs of mixed breeding then it can make the judge come up with the obvious conclusion that the dog must be disqual'd due to mixed breeding.

When looking at a dog for potential breeding or show purposes you dont look at what makes the dog look right you point out what makes the dog look incorrect and out of standard... it shouldnt be considered "bashing" it should be considered constructive and it is to help that person make a decision. Being blind and ignoring the obvious faults leads bad breedings and multiple "types" that should have never existed before.

Tojvan, when someone tells you your dog is nice or only points out the good points be very wary as that is usually a sign that your dog is worse than it is because no dog is perfect. When ever I post a pic and all I hear is "love the color" or "wow he is so big" or "nice ears/eyes" etc... I'm like DAMN! how bad is he? If you get no negative critiques that person either doesnt know that breed or is trying to be nice.

 

[Duetsche_Doggen]

Damn mix bred mongrels.

Hahaha

 

[Duetsche_Doggen]

This statement is so incorrect I dont know whether you were joking or not... "Most" or was it like 1 or 2? Exaggerating w/o facts makes it difficult for the new person to gain proper knowledge. The tidbit that V lips are considered as a sign of mixed breeding is true but in and of itself is not a disqualification. The TRUTH is that it is a fault and IF there are several other signs of mixed breeding then it can make the judge come up with the obvious conclusion that the dog must be disqual'd due to mixed breeding.

When looking at a dog for potential breeding or show purposes you dont look at what makes the dog look right you point out what makes the dog look incorrect and out of standard... it shouldnt be considered "bashing" it should be considered constructive and it is to help that person make a decision. Being blind and ignoring the obvious faults leads bad breedings and multiple "types" that should have never existed before.

Tojvan, when someone tells you your dog is nice or only points out the good points be very wary as that is usually a sign that your dog is worse than it is because no dog is perfect. When ever I post a pic and all I hear is "love the color" or "wow he is so big" or "nice ears/eyes" etc... I'm like DAMN! how bad is he? If you get no negative critiques that person either doesnt know that breed or is trying to be nice.

I'm curious as to why breed types are a bad thing? Look at the JR and Border Collies, AS, BK's etc, so many different types but many perform their job just the same with minute differences.

 

[dogman#1]

Damn mix bred mongrels.

Finally we agree!

 

[chuckorlando]

I simply dont figure myself qualified to nit pick someones dog. So you rarely will hear much from me either way. Other then the broad statements Juan mentioned above. ahahahaha. My opinion how proper a dog conforms is not relivent.

 

[mountainfila]

This statement is so incorrect I dont know whether you were joking or not... "Most" or was it like 1 or 2? Exaggerating w/o facts makes it difficult for the new person to gain proper knowledge. The tidbit that V lips are considered as a sign of mixed breeding is true but in and of itself is not a disqualification. The TRUTH is that it is a fault and IF there are several other signs of mixed breeding then it can make the judge come up with the obvious conclusion that the dog must be disqual'd due to mixed breeding.

When looking at a dog for potential breeding or show purposes you dont look at what makes the dog look right you point out what makes the dog look incorrect and out of standard... it shouldnt be considered "bashing" it should be considered constructive and it is to help that person make a decision. Being blind and ignoring the obvious faults leads bad breedings and multiple "types" that should have never existed before.

Tojvan, when someone tells you your dog is nice or only points out the good points be very wary as that is usually a sign that your dog is worse than it is because no dog is perfect. When ever I post a pic and all I hear is "love the color" or "wow he is so big" or "nice ears/eyes" etc... I'm like DAMN! how bad is he? If you get no negative critiques that person either doesnt know that breed or is trying to be nice.

Yes i was being serious and its not like 1 or 2 dogs its many , all you have to do is look at the kennels and look at there dogs, im not going to post them all here but yes they do have some v lips in their kennels. You said it right there "sign of a v lip is a sign of mix breeding, so if its a sign then the dog should be sent packin. And then in another sentence you say its a fault. Mix bred is mix bred, its like saying your only kinda pregnant lol, you either are or your not lol

 

[dogman#1]

Yes i was being serious and its not like 1 or 2 dogs its many , all you have to do is look at the kennels and look at there dogs, im not going to post them all here but yes they do have some v lips in their kennels. You said it right there "sign of a v lip is a sign of mix breeding, so if its a sign then the dog should be sent packin. And then in another sentence you say its a fault. Mix bred is mix bred, its like saying your only kinda pregnant lol, you either are or your not lol

See this is what I meant by exagerating..... at first you said "MOST" then it was "MANY" and then finally it is "SOME"... can you see how this might confuse someone.. I know that sensationalism is sometimes used to make a small issue seem huge but in the end it is just misleading to try and fool folks that dont know any better.

Now for the whole "V" lip issue... the CAFIB standard is pretty clear in stating what is a disqual what is a fault, and how multiple incorrect characteristics can become a disqualification... for example... a dog may have a high earset which might indicate mixed breeding or it can just indicate a fault... now what if that same dog had the high earset, small ears, V shaped lips, excessive skin, short muzzle, over the height, square shape, etc, etc... now with the combination of those characteristics it is pretty obvious that this is not just a bad breeding as it has too many characteristics of other breeds and it is disqualified based on that. However a fault if it is very severe may be grounds of disqualification in itself, say a cork screw tail (just an example).

Now it is not nec. to post all the pictures to prove your point (which you yourself already back peddled on going from most to some), see we live in the age of the internet and all you have to do is give us kennel names so we can see all those V lips that you talk about... BTW you should give some names with multiple examples that prove your statement so the new people would know that you werent intentionally misleading them.

 

[fila4me]

Ughhhhh!!!!!!

 

[mountainfila]

See this is what I meant by exagerating..... at first you said "MOST" then it was "MANY" and then finally it is "SOME"... can you see how this might confuse someone.. I know that sensationalism is sometimes used to make a small issue seem huge but in the end it is just misleading to try and fool folks that dont know any better.

Now for the whole "V" lip issue... the CAFIB standard is pretty clear in stating what is a disqual what is a fault, and how multiple incorrect characteristics can become a disqualification... for example... a dog may have a high earset which might indicate mixed breeding or it can just indicate a fault... now what if that same dog had the high earset, small ears, V shaped lips, excessive skin, short muzzle, over the height, square shape, etc, etc... now with the combination of those characteristics it is pretty obvious that this is not just a bad breeding as it has too many characteristics of other breeds and it is disqualified based on that. However a fault if it is very severe may be grounds of disqualification in itself, say a cork screw tail (just an example).

Now it is not nec. to post all the pictures to prove your point (which you yourself already back peddled on going from most to some), see we live in the age of the internet and all you have to do is give us kennel names so we can see all those V lips that you talk about... BTW you should give some names with multiple examples that prove your statement so the new people would know that you werent intentionally misleading them.

All you have to do is look at alllllll the kennels, they all have a few with v lips, here is one as an example filabrasileiro-riogrande.com also check out the links page on that site they are to other kennels that support the cafib standard. When you factor in all the kennels thats allot of v lips out there even if is a handfull in each kennel.

but all the kennels even your beloved itanduah has a couple. Im not misleading anyone was just asking questions and showing that not just cbkc has v lips in them but also cafib has v lips in them not an exageration all you have to do is look at the photos

 

[dogman#1]

oh with out a doubt there are CAFIB dogs with V lips but that is still a fault just like in the OP's picture... never said it was a CAFIB or a CBKC thing.. dont know why you ended up there. The point was you said MOST..that is a huge exaggeration as now it is just a couple. When I went to Itanhandu's farm they had about 60 dogs... 1 had a v lip it was paniel (one of my favorite dogs they had and it was Pacara's brother). Is it a big deal? not if the dog was otherwise very nice or only had very minute other faults.. this isnt the case with the dog posted... the head alone shows multiple faults. Again there is absolutely no reason for anyone to take offense at this. The faults are obvious and ignoring them or only pointing out the positives helps absolutely no one. Again, blind backslapping support is what is helping ruin this breed, proper critiques can only help it. btw I went to that site and i didnt see any dogs with v lips... maybe i missed it.. which one?

 

[mountainfila]

oh with out a doubt there are CAFIB dogs with V lips but that is still a fault just like in the OP's picture... never said it was a CAFIB or a CBKC thing.. dont know why you ended up there. The point was you said MOST..that is a huge exaggeration as now it is just a couple. When I went to Itanhandu's farm they had about 60 dogs... 1 had a v lip it was paniel (one of my favorite dogs they had and it was Pacara's brother). Is it a big deal? not if the dog was otherwise very nice or only had very minute other faults.. this isnt the case with the dog posted... the head alone shows multiple faults. Again there is absolutely no reason for anyone to take offense at this. The faults are obvious and ignoring them or only pointing out the positives helps absolutely no one. Again, blind backslapping support is what is helping ruin this breed, proper critiques can only help it. btw I went to that site and i didnt see any dogs with v lips... maybe i missed it.. which one?

The site has a v lip dog right underneath the cafib logo to the top left of the page, anyway your missing my point so we will leave it at that. You cant say a dog with a v lip is a sign of mix breeding and then call it a fault does not make sense.

 

[dogman#1]

oh brother... you are the one that is missing the point. a V lip COULD be a sign, a sign not definitive proof.... high ear set, excessive skin, color, patterns, head type, temperament etc could all be signs of mixed breeding and they could also be signs of bad breeding which is why you have to look at the dog as a whole and not just one aspect... the V lip in this dog's head is just one of its issues but it is the first thing that pops up as it is so in your face.

BTW it is very difficult to tell if a dog has a V lip seeing its face from an angle.. you must have a REALLY good eye for this sort of thing please critique the dog posted as the OP asked.

 

[tojvan]

First of dogman thanks for the critique none offence taken man. I posted the pic fully aware of the V lip situation it is what it is right no point on hiding it. Why did I post only the head? To some the faults might be serious to some they might not. To me the V lip is an issue, I can love with a short muzzle. My purpose for this thread is to get you guys critiquing the sire and then critique my pup and I want you to compare the two. I know he is still really young but critique him as he is.
Mountain I understand where you are coming from aswell I have seen some cafib dogs with V lips aswell and did watch the live stream of the fil show. I do Agree with you aswell. There was this famous case of a fila with a V shape lip on the cafib cover magazine so I know that the V lip dogs are accepted.
Btw here is a full body shot what you guys think?

 

[tojvan]

Live with short muzzle not love lol

 

[dogman#1]

Thank you tojvan, I'm glad that you dont get upset as that is never the intended result. The V lip is an issue... it isnt the end all be all of the Fila Brasileiro but it is something that sticks out immediately. How this went to a CAFIB vs non CAFIB thing is beyond me. There are CAFIB dogs with V lips and while it is unsightly unless the dog has multiple other flaws it will not be disqual'd.

Now about your pup... how old is he? not sure if in that first pic he is standing on level ground or not but that rear is very high. also, and i dont know how to explain it properly but the 2nd pic shows a very awkward top line. the bottom line shows plenty of tuck which is not a good thing but it is unfortunately common especially in males, the chest seems deep enough and goes to right around the elbow, he has a square figure in the 2nd pic where his legs are properly under him..he should be longer and he needs better angulation in his rear legs which is possibly why the rear looks so high... the head... that muzzle is not just a little short, it is very short, the occipital should be more pronounced. a forward facing shot of his head could provide better angle for critiquing his head. The pup seems very young and will undoubtedly change and I am sure different pics will bring in different views. He seems to be a good weight for his height. thanks for posting.

 

[tojvan]

Dog man that's not my pup it's the same dog( site to my dog) as in the start of the post her is a better picture Nd this one is on level ground for sure

 

[tojvan]

Sire

 

[chuckorlando]

well I would take your pup over the sire if that say's anything. ahahaha

If Fila never had a V lip at all, where would it have come from in a dog that it was only a fault? And yes, thats a serious question. I mean I undertand poor parring. But where might it have come from in a pure dog to start