TM Question - Milkman at 3:30 a.m.

[elastigirl]

Hello all,
I'm a first-time TM owner. I've been lurking on the board for quite some time but haven't posted. Our 'baby' Ivy is 20 weeks old now and we adore her. We've had her since 8 weeks and in general things are going well. She has been a challenge but we went into this with both eyes open, having done quite a bit of reading and talking to our friends who own TMs, and so none of our challenges has been unexpected.

I am sure I will be coming back for more advice on other issues, but specifically I have something that I need help with now. We get our milk delivered each week. It comes around 3:30 a.m. on Thursday. Up til recently, Ivy (who sleeps in the kitchen in her open crate - she is crated when we leave the house but prefers it open at night so we gate the kitchen and leave the crate open) has not really noticed. The past few weeks as her guardian instincts have kicked in more, she has gone crazy barking when the poor man delivers the milk (he must wonder what in the world is going on, since up til now all we've had is a 10 year old Shih Tzu who wouldn't even be troubled to roll over if someone broke in).

I am not upset or angry at Ivy at all. This is her job and I get that. But the entire house is awakened at 3:30 a.m., and I have two kids (12 and 14) who have to get up for school. So, it's not an ideal situation to have her causing such a racket at 3:30 a.m.

Any ideas? Should I set the alarm at 3:15 next week so that I can take her out and have her meet the milkman? She has been well socialized first by her breeder and we've continued - so she adores every single person she's ever met including servicepeople who come to our house - the UPS deliveryman is her best friend - she loves the exterminator - the men who came to install her fence in the yard were the best thing ever - still, she does always bark when people come onto the property even if she knows and loves them (she will bark when I come home from work, for example, even if my kids are playing with her in the yard). So I'm not positive that it would work to get her up and have her meet the milkman - though I'd be happy to try it for a few weeks if it might make a difference. We're looking at many years with our girl and I don't mind losing some sleep now if it makes things smoother in the long run.

Any advice is appreciated - thanks in advance.
Gina

Oh, here's a picture of the puppy - since I know you will ask! This is quite old, her first day with us, but I will upload more recent pictures when I have the time.

 

[elastigirl]

Just wanted to add ... if I take her out and she sees that the milkman's truck is gone, she happily comes back in and goes back to sleep in her crate.

And I am sure some will ask why she is not in the bedroom with us. We have a strict no-pets-upstairs rule and it has worked well for us. So this is not something we are willing to change.

Thanks.

Gina

 

[musicdeb]

She's doing her job. Letting her meet the milkman might help but she may bark again when he comes again to deliver milk.

Where do you live that you have milk delivered?

 

[Catia]

Oooh she's beautiful.

And doing EXACTLY what she should be doing.
If you want to set an alarm & get up & take her out so she makes less noise for the rest of the house, that's probably be the way to do it.
Seems to me the last thing you'd really want is for her to think it is OK for people to be approaching your house at that hour.

Is it at all possible to change your delivery time to something more workable to the household schedule?
Or maybe pick up the milk if not? --Myself, I'd rather pick up the milk rather than to set an alarm & since she's probably gonna bark regardless.

 

[elastigirl]

Thanks for the replies. I agree, she will probably bark regardless, and yes, I realize she is doing her job.

I have seriously considered simply altering my routine to get up at 3:30 a.m. and get some work done.

I live in a rural area in Maryland. We've had our milk delivered for 10 years and I can't bear the thought of going back to store-bought. I *could* pick up, but it is a 45 minute drive each way ... and since we are on a route with many other customers, I doubt it is something that could be altered for the sake of my personal convenience ... the poor man must start work at midnight to get the truck loaded and out here by 3:30 a.m.; I really don't feel that I can complain about that, if you know what I mean.

Gina

 

[Sheena5305]

I didn't want to read and run, she's adorable! I wish we had pictures of our boy when he was a little fluffy puppy - we didn't get him till he was nearly 11 weeks old and he had outgrown it by then
Ours is currently 19 weeks and very rarely barks, he tends to start making this little huffing noise and if we ignore or don't hear him then he will bark - I guess we still have this to come!
Thankfully the earliest we have anyone come to our door is 5 am when the other half gets in from work and I'm up to make him (the dog) breakfast at 6 anyway so the most I get is a wet nose in the eyesocket to tell me daddy's home

 

[ruthcatrin]

Some of it will disapate as she gets used to the milkman always coming at that time.

But I suspect she'll always bark at least a little when he arrives, and it may infact get worse again in a year or two as she really hits her temperment.

Getting her a chance to get to know the milkman may help, and having someone there to tell her "its ok, I see it, its just the milkman" will also help quiet her again quickly.

She's a cutie!

 

[broccolini]

My 16 month old female is just now getting to the point where she doesn't bark at the neighbors that she sees doing the same things every single day. We have a 5 month old male that has just started barking at everything. Including the same neighbors that the older one has finally decided are allowed to use their yards.

I think I would try being up with her and letting her see that you are not concerned about the milkman at all. Or, if it's possible, have the milkman leave the milk someplace farther from the house. Maybe if he's stealthy, she won't know he's there.

 

[Doggyhelpplease]

She will probably get use to the routine though it may take a long awhile. My TM is not a big door barker. She does not bark if it is us even on off hours but I suspect she knows our sounds. She will not bark if someone comes and rings the door bell and we get up and go to answer it but she will come over quickly right there and want to sit beside me as I open it. If she is outside she will always bark if someone comes to the door etc. If she thinks it is odd or suspicious she will bark. If someone tries to look inside our door window (you only see shapes you can't really see through) she will absolutely lose it. When one relative was peaking behind the garage door same thing...if she thinks its fishy she goes nuts, but it barely happens.

Backyard is different...she is more barky. Our neighbors are kind of allowed in their own yards now at 17months apox. she is fine with all but has never liked the 30 year old son of the back neighbor and he is still not allowed to be in his yard. Unknown dogs barking at night will make her growl even from her bed...she will growl before she even lifts her head lol. We would never let her sleep outside over night but if we did she would bark most of it (after dark is much worse).

She sleeps on her bed that is beside ours in our room though she didn't always, she slept in a gated room downstairs as a pup till 10 months before the room started to get deconstructed during her first heat...it worked much better with her upstairs and she has been there since (Just letting you know our story, not trying to pressure you). I know you do not want her on the main floor with you upsides but many TMs if let to their own would probably sleep in the upstairs halls or in a room near their people (not saying in her bed)...I believe its their guarding instinct that makes them want to be there before you are the world while you sleep. Just a thought anyways. Try the milkman meeting thing though and let us know how it goes and it can work with neighbors too.

 

[DennasMom]

Is it the truck driving up that gets her barking, or the man coming to the front door?

Is there somewhere else - like the other side of the garage, or put the box at the end of the drive (or halfway up) - that you could have the milk delivered to?

Maybe a little more space/buffer from the house would let her look but not speak as it gets delivered?

Maybe a few nights of "see, that's the milkman... wait... see, he's gone....good girl" - keeping her observant, but quiet - so long as the man leaves - would help her understand that her job is to supervise, and only alert if he doesn't go away...

We have a box of veggies delivered here 2x a month... Denna sleeps through it. I think she might have barked once, when hearing the truck stop out front around 11pm we told her to be quiet, and she took that maybe too much to heart... she's pretty worthless as a guard dog these days. We had a hoodlum walk up in our driveway and steal our gas caps - and it was ME who heard him and made the DH go looking... Denna stayed in bed with me during the whole event - including DH talking to the cops after the fact. :\

 

[elastigirl]

Thanks all for the thoughtful replies.

We are in a very small house, and we're only about 30 feet from the road, so it may be the truck that wakes her. The milk cooler is currently on the back deck so it's possible she might not wake if it's moved to the front door and I am definitely doing this next week for the delivery. But I think I will be ready to head downstairs and hopefully catch the deliveryman before he leaves to see if meeting him will help her relax a little.

Ivy is funny; she's barky whenever someone shows up on the property whether she knows them or not (though more often than not, especially if she can see them, her tail is wagging furiously while she sounds like a dog of war - that's what the kids call her). We have literally no neighbors - farmed fields across, on one side and behind us, and horses on the other side. She used to bark at the horses but has gotten used to them being there. So that is not a concern, thankfully. I don't mind the barkiness - it's not excessive - and usually at night she is pretty quiet in the house though I realize the milkman driving up at 3:30 a.m., walking up to the deck (bottles clanking no doubt) and loading the cooler is probably too much to expect any TM to sleep through!

 

[ruthcatrin]

Don?t let that wagging tail fool you, if she doesn't know the target of her barking then that furiously wagging tail is a sign of agitation!

 

[ruthcatrin]

example of what I mean: http://www.scaryyankeechick.com/pictures/videos/044.3gp (you'll need quicktime to play the video, and turn up your bass or put on your headphones in order to actually hear anything!)

 

[elastigirl]

Thanks, Ruth. Point taken. I am also going on the fact that when she is allowed to say hello to the new person she is unfailingly thrilled to see them. And I do mean 100% of the time. She has never met a person she didn't love. She licks hands, dances around and is just delighted to meet someone new. But her bark sounds the same no matter WHO is approaching. When I come home, I can see her behind her fence and she can see me. She barks her scary bark like crazy but with that tail wagging as she's running to the gate because she knows I am coming to see her first thing. As soon as I open up the gate she licks my hands and then sticks her head between my knees and stands there to be petted.

Incidentally I was discussing this with my husband today. He comes home late at night and she usually barks as he enters the house. He mentioned that he had begun speaking to her from the porch, as soon as he walks up the steps - letting her know that it's him coming home - and since he started doing that, she hasn't barked at him when he has come in the door. It's a learning experience for all of us. I'm in awe at the behaviors I'm seeing in her already. She so clearly has her "job" ... keeping the household safe ... much more so than any other dog I've ever owned (and yes, I know, TMs aren't like other dogs ... but no matter how much reading you've done or how many people have told you this, I think it's still a bit of a surprise for a first time owner when you see it in real life).

 

[ruthcatrin]

I'm glad to hear that! Just keep in mind thats subject to change as she matures.

TMs are awesome, and yah, they're so "job driven" even at such young ages, that its almost scary!

 

[ruthcatrin]

Oh, I didn't ask, where did you get her from?

 

[Catia]

Sounds like you've got a good plan.
If it doesn't work out-do you have a neighbor that also gets milk delivered?
That way you could save the 45 min trip & avoid the whole issue if it comes to that.

My girl doesn't bark or growl. She postures, gets really silent & watches. Her posturing seems to scare people. She's never shown any signs of aggression, but I guess it's that stance/posturing & silence. She is a sniffer & listener. I watch her smell through the doors-she knows who is on the other side.
She has since taught this 'no bark reaction' to the 2 extremely barky dogs on the corner--seemingly by *osmosis*--We are the ONLY people/dog in the neighborhood that do not get barked at--EVER.
She will bark if I put her outside--barks to get back in...So sometimes I leave her out to do just that--bark...In the house she is quieter than the cats.

 

[elastigirl]

Oh, I didn't ask, where did you get her from?

Well, I'm hoping this won't cause me to be flamed <ducking> ... I have a friend who has two TMs, male and female. She did not have a breeding contract from her breeder and this was an "accidental" breeding ... the female had a litter of 8 and she kept two pups and found homes for the other 6. I do not know anything about the breeders that the parents came from (I think the male came from Oregon but might not have that correct). I'm not planning to breed or show (we will have her spayed at about 2 years of age so that she can get her full growth) and this is my first experience with this breed, so information about her bloodlines would not have been useful to me. My main concern was temperament. I visited the litter five different times (first alone, then with the kids and my husband) before I finally settled on our girl (although not surprisingly, she had me picked out from the start - the very first visit when she was 5 weeks old she climbed up on my lap and licked my face).

Here is a more recent photo.

 

[ruthcatrin]

:/ I don't normally make a fuss about spay/neuter but I hope she's at least looking at getting her bitch spayed? Cause otherwise, if she's under contract for her dogs, the respective breeders are going to have an absolute FIT over the fact that she had a litter, accident or not.

She's a lovely girl! I do suggest that you get bloodline info though, if only so you can look up the health testing done on the lines and know what you're looking at. I'm assuming that neither parent had any done since she wasn't planning on breeding. If you want you can PM me with it (if you don't want to post it) and I'll help you look it up.

 

[Siloh]

A) I know next to nothing about TMs
B) No idea if this would work
Maybe you could turn on some white noise that would drown out the sound of the man approaching? Like tuning the radio to static and turning that up as far as possible without disturbing the humans upstairs?

And WTF Maryland, really? I want milk delivered! That's so great. I wouldn't want to go back either to store bought.


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Hamlet Prince of Denmark