Standing Ground.

[Esand]

Ugh what a disaster last night.

Walking home late last night a man is walking his lab on the sidewalk on the other side of the street. Off leash. I see the dog look over at us with a look that I well recognize from my own lab as he locates a possible friend/breeding partner. I didn't think much at first but then in less than 20 seconds everything happened so quickly I barely had time to react. The lab decides to cross the 4 lane street at a sprint. The owner calls out to him in vain and begins to follow. Leia jumps back. Her collar slips over her head. The Lab arrives. Leia takes off running at full speed. She makes it almost 40m down the sidewalk before slamming on the breaks and turning around. The man arrives while calling out apologies and grabs his dogs collar. Leia is sprinting back towards me. The man is bending down next to me putting on a leash. I notice the look in her eye. I call out to her. In vain. She lunges mouth fully opened and hits most likely where she was aiming, his neck. He's knocked on his side and she sort of flys over him. The lab freaks and growls will lunging as she rolls on to her feet. She lands a bite on the underside of the labs neck as I manage to get my arm around her own neck. The guy has managed to grab his labs collar and I'm already moving away from them holding on to Leia's scruff.

no more than 20 seconds. Felt like 20 minutes.

I get her collar back on. The man is bleeding lightly. She's got some of his shirt stuck in her teeth. The lab is barking. She's snarling. I apologize, he apologizes. Supposedly the lab has never crossed the street, supposedly Leia has never done that before. We're both pretty shaken and move on quickly.

So yes, collar tighter in the future and while I'm glad that she didn't leave me high and dry in the end not to mention not running into the street and getting hit by a bus. I'm a little less than thrilled that her first reaction was to run from the other dog. Can you teach a dog to stand it's ground? She certainly doesn't like to give an inch when playing with our other dog. Is it because she's only 7 months. Is this a temperament fail?

If you can teach her to stand her ground, how do you do that?

 

[season]

Here's my take. If u have had a secure collar on you wouldn't have to worry about your dog "standing it's ground". You could have done your job as the leader to protect your dog and "stand your own ground". I use a prong for these very reasons. You just never know about other dogs and especially ones that have idiot owners who have them off leash in town. I had a similar situation happen with me and a Solo. He had his prong on so I don't worry about him slipping out or whatever. I put Solo in between me and the other dog and when the dog got close I put a size 12 right in its face. I stood my ground. Solo wasn't in harm and the owner of the other dog didn't say a word cause he knew I wasn't messing around.
Moral of the story, be ready for anything. Be ready to protect your dog. It's not your dog's job to protect you and lastly get a better collar. I suggest a prong.


"Today is victory over yourself of yesterday."
- Miyamoto Musashi

 

[Esand]

That isn't really helpful. I did 'stand my ground' which was easy because I wasn't threatened. Neither was she though which she didn't recognize although she has been exposed to plenty of other dogs and has never once be injured attacked or anything. When we've been rushed at the park before she's just pressed up against me but has never actually left my side. Of course I am ready to protect my dog but I want my dog to protect me as well. Isn't that the point of a protection dog?

I also don't understand the suggestion for a prong collar. If I had her regular collar buckled a little tighter it wouldn't have slipped over her head, my bad, big screw up on my part. But if I want to give a correction when she feels threatened by another dog running up on us I can always just kick her, or something, but that seems counter productive.

 

[season]

My point wasn't to use the prong for corrections in that instance. It's just a better collar choice than a flat collar when it comes to when a dog tries to back out or pull out. Flat collars can choke and injure the dog. A prong doesn't choke and it puts equalized pressure around the neck and not localized like a flat or choke chain. Plus, it would give u better control.
And yes, your dog was threatened (Or else it wouldn't have felt the need to run) and it ended up injuring a dog and a human. Two things which could have been a lot worse and cost u a lot more. Secondly, no, it's not your dog's job to protect you. Sure, it's nice to think they will, but don't assume on it just because it's a "protection dog". Unless you've spent the money on protection training u don't have one. If u want it to be one plan on spending a lot of money to have it trained to be one.
So wether it helped or not (I just didn't tell u what u want to hear) is up to u. Hopefully you learned some lessons. We don't get better when things are sunshine and rainbows. We learn (or at least should) learn from our failures/mistakes.


"Today is victory over yourself of yesterday."
- Miyamoto Musashi

 

[season]

Most all dogs don't want to protect they want to be protected. They don't want to lead they want to be led. Just because I have an intimidating (that's enough for most ppl to keep a distance) doesn't mean I expect him to protect me. If I put him through the proper training then yes, I'd expect that. I didn't get Solo to protect me. I got him as a companion. Most ppl would be let down to know that their "guard dogs" wouldn't do much more than bark if it came down to it. And in most cases that's all it takes. But, again, it takes some very long, intense and expensive training to turn your dog into a certified protection dog.


"Today is victory over yourself of yesterday."
- Miyamoto Musashi

 

[Hector]

She is a fila. I think she did nothing wrong. It was 110% your fault that the man got bit. She got spooked by the dog and ran. She came back because she has loyalty and an instinct to protect you. She has an excellent temperament: fearless at the man and true ojeriza. Forget about her reaction to that stupid lab. You should worry about a possible lawsuit and quarantine and possible euthanasia depending on where you are. If some damn dog bit me, I would have called the cops and demanded rabies proof. I really don't care which dog was at fault. We're talking a dog bite that broke skin. She will need a lot of obedience training for handler control and I hope you're up for that so you don't get someone mauled. If she had been full grown, I think the man would have been mauled. I'm telling you a dog that aims for the neck is no fucking joke. She's a natural killer so get your head out of your ass and recognize your real problem here. Remember the video you showed when she was at a dog park and we all warned you? Yeah. I'm sorry this is so harsh from me, but you have an excellent fila....

 

[angelbears]

Holy shit! You have got to be joking. You are going to get you dog put down and hopefully your ass sued. How many times do you have to be told a Fila will bite. Now your asking how to get your dog to stand its' ground. Your dog sounds like a perfect Fila and deserves more in an owner. Get your head out of your ass or better yet stop trying to act macho with her and be the owner she deserves.

 

[Hector]

As for collars, make sure all your equipment is sturdy and not from the dollar store. For flat collar nylon, get at least 3 ply and also always hook up the main collar to a back up slip collar/choke chain. You can hook the main to the backup with a carabiner, a double ended shot tab, or use couplers. Stay away from martingales. You might also want to buy a double ended leash and hook each clasp onto different collars.

 

[Hector]

Might as well invest in a muzzle too.

 

[Boxergirl]

I'm curious why you say to stay away from a martingale?

 

[Hector]

I'm curious why you say to stay away from a martingale?

Because my easily spooked, skittish shepherd would easily back out of a nylon martingale even when I had it to a point of choking. He would get spooked easily by loud noises and he'd back out of his collar really hard and fast. For a dog that's known to bite people, I would play everything super safe.

 

[season]

Well said Hector and angelbears. I thought I was the only one who told it like It is. I was trying my best to not come off as the jerk many think I am. Had I known this person's history with a Fila I'd have told them to get their head out of their ass too. I was shaking my head by the original question to begin with. Now I really am.


"Today is victory over yourself of yesterday."
- Miyamoto Musashi

 

[Boxergirl]

Because my easily spooked, skittish shepherd would easily back out of a nylon martingale even when I had it to a point of choking. He would get spooked easily by loud noises and he'd back out of his collar really hard and fast. For a dog that's known to bite people, I would play everything super safe.

Huh, that's interesting. A martingale is all I trust for my boy. He can slip out of everything else, including a harness. Prong shuts him down.

 

[Smokeycat]

Your dog bit a person and you're worried about how to teach her to 'stand her ground'?!? I think it might be far more important for you to learn how to read her body language so that you can avoid putting her in a situation where she might bite someone again with a more serious outcome. You chose a breed that will defend naturally, that makes it even more important for you to do the necessary training to teach her what is a threat and what isn't. You also have a greater requirement to ensure that she isn't a danger to people who might cross her path innocently.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

 

[season]

Your dog bit a person and you're worried about how to teach her to 'stand her ground'?!? I think it might be far more important for you to learn how to read her body language so that you can avoid putting her in a situation where she might bite someone again with a more serious outcome. You chose a breed that will defend naturally, that makes it even more important for you to do the necessary training to teach her what is a threat and what isn't. You also have a greater requirement to ensure that she isn't a danger to people who might cross her path innocently.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

Well said. Think this guy is in over his head.


"Today is victory over yourself of yesterday."
- Miyamoto Musashi

 

[Lisa P]

This post gave me chills! If your dog is going for people's throats at 7 months old I can only imagine what would have happened if your dog was full grown .You need to get control now!!!

 

[Esand]

I feel like there's been some confusion. I'm not upset with Leia for having bitten. Not at all, not in the slightest. If you go back to the first post in the thread I never once said anything to that effect.

While a little undesirable it is completely understandable in the situation. When I'm talking about standing ground I was talking about the fact that she took off running when the other dog came at us. This was a dog that just wanted to say hi, but even if he didn't I would have liked her to not turn tail and take off. Obviously if her collar was on correctly (see below) this wouldn't have happened, but her instinct to run would have been the same but instead of realizing it I would have subjected her to being confined with the very thing that scared her.

Isn't the breed standard for a Fila to never back down? Leia has a temperament buy back guarentee from her breeder. Which is not to say that I'd ever think of returning her, obviously I'd never give up my baby just because she doesn't match the CAFIB standard word for word, but I'd like to know whether this reaction is normal for her age or for her being untrained or is a temperament flaw.

Beyond the reaction, obviously the idea is to deal with unreasonable fear for quality of life reasons. I found this whole episode strange because she's never had a reaction quite like this to another dog before. Clearly it being late at night and dark could have affected it and also that she came out of her collar was probably shocking to her since she lost her tether to me. The way I trained steadiness before was to go up to fences where other dogs were fence fighting and growling and then treat and counter condition. I've been doing it with Leia but I don't know if I just haven't made enough progress or if there is a better way to go about it.

* note on the collar, it wasn't poorly adjusted rather the metal eyelet had been ripped out.

 

[Esand]

Can't edit anymore (damn bugs) but the reason I care if it's a temperament fault is if it is, she shouldn't be bred.

 

[Esand]

You chose a breed that will defend naturally, that makes it even more important for you to do the necessary training to teach her what is a threat and what isn't.

Of course, thats the number one goal of training with her. We work on it every day and we're doing quite well actually. In this particular case the problem was that she felt threatened by the Lab and generalized the threat to the man who had come running towards me (I'm sure thats what she thought, this happened so fast). I want to build her confidence with other dogs but I'm not sure how, dog parks so far have not really been yielding results (with dogs, its done wonders to reassure her that the other owners are not threats). During the day, when we pass other dogs on the sidewalk she's never shied away, sometimes she pulls but we're working on that and all in all she's definitely the easiest dog I've had in that respect.

 

[Esand]

[video=youtube;-XeQOx-0CNg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XeQOx-0CNg[/video]

Here's a video I took over a month ago that I posted in another thread. This is a more common reaction she has to other dogs, you can see clearly the same uncomfortableness that would have led her to back out of her collar. Then the territoriality and protecting my space. The difference was that last night instead of just being uncomfortable and nervous she actually turned tail and ran. Now I don't know if that was because it was late at night, because the dog came running rather than walking or if it came from the shock of getting out of the collar, or some other factor completely.

The reason I posted this thread was to look for ways to build up her confidence so that she is not so scared. Obviously its a lot to ask of a fila to be relaxed and friendly with a strange dog but most of the filas I know (including her parents) are remarkably stoic.