Saddened to see the truth

[DMikeM]

Some of you may find this is acceptable but i don't. I posted this on Facebook today and the response was a eye opening let down.

I was going to ask about this last night but it was getting late, I was angry and tired so I decided to wait.
On EBBASA Yesterday XXX Wrote 3:57am May 24
"I am looking for a retirement home for my one adult female Boerboel."
I replied in my distaste that wouldn't his home be the appropriate place for her to live out her life. (paraphrased). A couple other members replied with concerns as well. Of course XXX replied in his defense. I then noticed he had posted a few times about having puppies. I did not note if they were for sale or what he post was really about at the time. Of course since then XXX has blocked me.
My question: Is this what it is about, grow up a female have her push out a litter or 2 then dump her off on someone else after having her spayed?
Is this guy a known Kennel/Breeder in good standing?

So here is a reminder for the breeders out there.
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[ruthcatrin]

It is, I think, why more and more breeders are switching to a co-own type situation for many dogs. So that the dog HAS a home after the breeder has a litter or two out of them.

But as much as I don't care for the practice I can understand it to a certain degree. Many areas have legal limits on how many dogs you can have in a home (or for that matter the current USDA rules about number of bitches etc), and in many places a breeder has to come to a decision, to either re-home an adult dog so they can continue their breeding program, or decide that they won't rehome even if it means that they won't be able to breed further. As long as the same care goes into the re-homing of the adult as with the pups (contract, including requiring the dog be returned if ever the new owner changes his mind, same prep and care and thought as goes into the puppy homes), I'll tolerate it.

 

[DMikeM]

I think it's poop.

 

[ruthcatrin]

I've definetly seen ones that piss me off. Infact, if you saw my latest post in my Scammers Untie thread, there's someone doing it on my local craigslist right now. They were selling "AKC English Mastiff puppies" for $500 each a few months ago, now all the sudden they're selling a 2.5yr old bitch (with prominent nipples, like she's nursed) "cause she doesn't get along with other dogs" for $200......pretty sure you can guess my reaction!

 

[DMikeM]

What you just described is what pisses me off. Same as the guy I am talking about.

 

[Bailey's Mom]

As I was reading this my girl grabbed her new toy, a large stuffed caterpillar with a squeaker tail, and she started cavorting around the room joyfully squeaking away. My heart is full of her silly happiness. I can't stop smiling. And then I realize, sadly, again, that these marvellous dogs are just numbers on spreadsheet for some people.

Perhaps that poor dog will find a loving home where it can bloom and grow and shower a doting owner with love and constant amazement. Out of the fire and into the arms of love. Deliverance!

As for these parasite breeders... Poop isn't the word I'd use to describe them, but let's hope they open their eyes some day and see an amazing mastiff...complicated, mysterious, giant spirit looking back, and they find their souls in the process.

Are you sure, Mike, that this was the circumstance, not just someone pushed to the wall by the economy and personal challenges, was this really a puppy mill monster ditching a former breeding bitch? God, I pray not. Blessings on that dog, may she find a heaven in a forever home.

 

[Tunride]

I just don't understand how you can sell a family member! There were days when I wanted to "sell" a kid or two, but not my dogs!

 

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

I don't entirely agree. As Ruth said there is oftentimes a limit to the number of dogs a kennel can have and so when they have retired a female or male then often neuter (glad to see that they do this) and place out in a home.

Often times there are different dynamics in a breeder's house that most pet people do not have to worry about, like males or females that do not get along and having to run essentially two separate packs (or more) to keep the dogs there. Ensuring that all get proper exercise and training, this not something that normal pet people are capable or willing to do. Assuming that this breeder is just tossing a dog aside because she is no longer "useful" is narrow-minded as you do not know the circumstance behind why they are re-homing.

We have not had to re-home an adult, but we currently run 2 separate packs here that can make for some difficult dynamics and vacations nearly not existent, all choices that we made. That being said, if at some point if there is a capable home that comes up and it is a good home that will allow one of those dogs to be happier, and have their own family being the sole dog (or two) in a family then I will do what is best for my dogs regardless how others looking in feel about things. In the end breeders make the hard decisions, what dogs to keep in a litter, what ones to place, what ones have faults (even though their new homes think they are perfect), keeping a dog that doesn't turn out to be a good addition when all is said and done at maturity, etc. that allows a breed to move forward and hopefully progress in the right direction, preserving the integrity of the breed. It does not mean that we do not love our dogs, it means that we love them enough to do something for them that is in their best interests, that most would have trouble with and often take flack from outsiders looking in.

Granted I know this is not the reason that all breeders re-home dogs but assuming that it is all about the $$ for us all is insulting.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Yup, thats another side of it, you keep that "perfect pup" from the litter, but by the time he's 2 its clear he's not the addition to your breeding program you hoped he would be. Maybe due to conformation maybe due to not passing his health tests. Then decisions have to be made because of household limitations (legal or personal). Again, as long as the same care goes into the placing of an adult as the pups I'll tolerate it.

 

[Slinger-girl]

Couldn't have said better Ruth and Mary.

I had to make a difficult decision to rehome a retired stud boy of mine. Even though I neutered him, when my girls would come in season he would become anxious, go off his food, lose weight and become destructive. He was miserable being around the girls he couldn't breed.

I found a great home for him, with a family that loves him, he is spoiled rotten and the their only dog. I loved him, I hated having to part with him, but he is much happier, this I know. A well socialized dog will easily fit into new circumstances. They got a top notch Mastiff, trained, Championed, CGC and TDI and he got a wonderful family of his own. We still keep in touch. I refuse to back away from that decision because it doesn't look good.

 

[musicdeb]

I think it's poop.

Yep... Bullsh*t!

 

[musicdeb]

I just don't understand how you can sell a family member! There were days when I wanted to "sell" a kid or two, but not my dogs!

hahahahahaha!

 

[Boxergirl]

I have a friend that is a responsible and reputable boxer breeder. She's had to make the difficult decision to rehome several of her dogs. One was an absolutely gorgeous champion male with possibly the best head I've ever seen - and he didn't score well enough on his holter monitor for her to use him for stud. She never used a female up and then rehomed. Her females were spayed after their second litter and either kept as a much loved family companion, or rehomed on contract. Every single dog she rehomed went to live with someone she personally knew and was able to keep in contact with.

Using a female for repeat breedings just to make money and then rehoming when she's used up is obviously wrong. A responsible breeder is a different story. I don't know of any responsible breeder that would do that. We ask an awful lot of them. We want them to do all the appropriate testing, title, and/or work their dogs. We go searching for these responsible breeders because we want some sort of predictability in temperament and type. Unfortunately if these same breeders kept every single dog, they would soon have to stop breeding. There are laws dictating how many animals you can have and there's the huge cost of breeding properly. I bet they hate having to rehome their companions as much as we hate hearing they have to do it. I think it all depends on the situation.

 

[Iymala]

I am really glad to see so many people posting the "other side" of the equation. It really is not a black and white issue when it comes to responsible breeding, and it certainly does not mean the dogs rehomed do not have a fantastic life. There are a lot of people who are a better fit for an adult dog than a puppy due to their personal circumstances. I feel as long as a breeder is trying to do the best for the dog, and taking care with the home she places an adult dog in... there really is no fault to be found in my eyes.

 

[DMikeM]

This guy that I posted about has started crying that I have ruined his market in America. This was said after he informed me that he sold 5 of the females last litter and kept one back for himself and will be sending the mother away.

Someone asked me why this practice bothers me. Here is how I replied.

Because for me when I hand Jade's leash to one of her trainers and walk away to train Odi. She becomes very unhappy. She knows ME, I raised her I am her owner the one she loves and trusts and no one can replace me in her eyes. She will not obey them she does not trust them she just wants me to come back to her and rescue her from this other person. And to top that off these trainers bred her they were her first family, but they are not me. So what I see when a breeder hands that dog over to someone else in my Jade heart broken and waiting for me to return and bring her back to the place she loves. This is why it bothers me so much


Also if you want to breed dogs and can't provide lifetime support for your older dogs that produced all these puppies for you then you should not be breeding dogs.
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If there are any admins looking at this post would you be so kind as to edit my original post. Where the actual breeders name is used please replace with "XXXBreeder" Thanks

 

[WalnutCrest]

Generally, I'm inclined to let the sum and substance of their breed-related decisions stand for themselves.

I'm not going to denigrate a breeder who makes a tough decision to rehome an adult ... especially if the placement is done with care and tact.

At the end of the day, the breeders are really the guardians of the breed's future, and as such, they have to do what is best for the breed as a whole. It's a tough spot to be in ... and it's only exacerbated by the love and affection each breeder feels for the animals they create ... but, also by the legal requirements as to the maximum numbers of breeding age animals, etc ... and the various economic and time constraints to which each breeder is subject.

Simply said, being a breeder isn't for everyone. If you think you want to breed, please do lots of soul-searching first!

 

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

Also if you want to breed dogs and can't provide lifetime support for your older dogs that produced all these puppies for you then you should not be breeding dogs.

I am not sure if this is part of your reply on the page you are a member of or if was for those that replied here but if it is for us here can you tell me what you mean by lifetime support?

 

[DMikeM]

That is my thought posted here not on facebook.

I think dog producers/breeders should be prepared to keep their dogs from start to finish. How would you know how your line is doing all the way to the end if you did not? These dogs have presented you with love and devotion (unless you raise kennel dogs), made babies at your request don't you owe them a life of love in return?

 

[QY10]

For myself, my dogs are my family. I love them, I give them the best live's possible and in return, they fill my life with happiness, laughter and love.

I could not imagine ever having to re-home one of my dogs. This is probably why I could never, ever breed any of my dogs. I would end up with a ton of dogs because I could never bring myself to sell any of the puppies.

I understand the perspective of the breeders on an intellectual level, but it just does not fit me or my life and isn't something that I could ever do. For me, it would feel like I was abandoning my dog in the years where it might actually need me and a living home the most.

 

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

The same way I know how my puppies I produce are, I keep in contact with their families. You assume that when adults are placed that they are written off from the breeder, which for the ones that care is not the case. For most of us that look at placing adults it is with a heart that is attached to them. You believe that a dog is only capable of loving one person? What do you think would happen to you should you die? Do you think that your dogs would not be able to move on and be happy with another family? Do you think that rescues are full of dogs that were so attached to their families that they can never be happy in another home. You assume that they homes these dogs are going into can not offer them more love and individual attention than they might get at their breeders home. Or perhaps you would like it to be exactly like PETA would like and breeders just disappear because they couldn't continue keeping everything without being a hoarder or shut down by the government.

Has either of the breeders you purchased your dogs from placed an older dog?

In the end, there are breeders and there are pet people, different frame of mind, one not better than the other simply different.