Puppy aggression

Discussion in 'Cane Corso' started by Ken Smith Jr, Aug 29, 2017.

  1. Ken Smith Jr

    Ken Smith Jr Active Member

    Dog aggression at 9 weeks old. My vet believes a 9 week old puppy should not show signs of dog aggression. She can be stubborn and refuses to walk at times. She will either sit or lay out flat when she does not want to walk. I'm afraid to pull her cause of potential hip issues later. But the vet is concerned cause when she picked up Gabby, Gabby growled and snapped. Gabby began growling and snapping at home when picked up to take outside for bathroom break. She bites on her leash and at people feet or pants legs. She has learned a great deal in the two weeks we had her. She can fetch, sit give paw upon command. She sits at the door before leaving or entering. She sits for her food. She will enter her crate or play pen upon command. She even heels with leash a little. All of this in two weeks. I take her where ever I go so she is used to driving in the car. Just need advice cause we have kids in the house. Don't want Gabby to hurt anyone in our home.
     
  2. marke

    marke Well-Known Member

    your vet is wrong , puppies show aggression from the day they are born ....... i've had pups i had to separate from the litter at 6 weeks that turned into sweethearts .......... as far as biting , correct the dog , change the subject , limit the opportunity for the behavior , and i think his behavior indicates nothing other than being a dog ...........as for walking on a lead , take the pup in the woods on a light long lead , or any place with lots of smells and not lots of people , traffic ....... let him lead you , once you got him exploring , turning it around to him following you should be easy ...in a safe place you can drop the leash and walk away , and sit within sight .... letting him lead i believe is also good for a pups confidence ......... forcing a pup won't accomplish much if anything ......
     
  3. Boxergirl

    Boxergirl Well-Known Member

    That's not aggression. Not the way your vet means it. I'm not saying Marke is wrong (he's given you great advice and has raised a lot of pups) because puppies certainly do show aggression to each other, but I think your vet means a different type of aggression. You have a puppy that doesn't like to be picked up. Maybe it's scary for her or maybe it's uncomfortable. Unless it's an emergency, stop picking her up. Don't drag her on the leash. That's just going to make her pull back the other direction. I make following me the greatest thing. I do what Marke suggested, but I also start from day one with off leash work in the yard. I have super tasty treats that I hold at my waist. Puppy follows in roughly a heel position. I treat when puppy is where he should be. I also treat every single time puppy looks up at me. I want them checking in with me. They learn pretty quickly that by my side is a good place to be.

    Have you had a dog before? What breed? What methods are you using to train her? Positive methods rather than punishment methods are going to build a stronger relationship with your puppy.

    She's still a baby. She's still learning the rules of living with people. Remember that the only way she has to communicate with you are with her growls and her teeth. If she's uncomfortable or afraid of something she's going to tell you in the only way she knows how. It's your job to teach her your rules. Human rules. You have children in the house. Someone is going to get scratched or nipped. It's what puppies do. Teach your children the proper way to interact with the pup. Also make sure you don't punish her for growling. Dogs that are taught not to growl don't have any way to tell us that they're uncomfortable so they go directly to a bite. Growling isn't a bad thing.
     
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  4. Ken Smith Jr

    Ken Smith Jr Active Member

    Thank you both for advice. Yes had dogs before German Sheppard when I was younger. Currently a bichon. I train her with positive encouragement. She does not like treats or she doesn't really respond that great to treats; but she loves her toys. So I use the toy to encourage her. She walks by my side all the time especially with the toy as a lead. She is a great dog. She knows basic commands like sit at feeding time. She knows to sit at the door to go out or come in. She knows the command to go into her crate. She sits and will give me her paw upon command. She is learning to heel without the leash a little. I have only had her two weeks and she is able to do the things mention above. So she is very intelligent and really want to please. Yes initially when we got her she was small only 10 lbs so we carried her down the steps to her potty location. In two weeks she weighs 14.5 lbs and she may not like to be picked up. So I am now having her sit to attached leash and walk her out.
     
  5. Michele

    Michele Super Moderator Staff Member

    Start implementing NILIF
     
  6. Ken Smith Jr

    Ken Smith Jr Active Member

    Don't really have places like you suggest in my area to walk. We are taking her camping so will do what you suggest at that time with the leash. Thank you again. I think she is a great dog. I enrolled in puppy class starting in a couple of weeks.
     
  7. Ken Smith Jr

    Ken Smith Jr Active Member

    Sorry but what does NILIF mean
     
  8. Ken Smith Jr

    Ken Smith Jr Active Member

    Got it nothing in life is free. Agree. Will do thx
     
  9. Michele

    Michele Super Moderator Staff Member

  10. Boxergirl

    Boxergirl Well-Known Member

  11. Ken Smith Jr

    Ken Smith Jr Active Member

    Gabby does respond to commands when her toy is involved. Today I found a treat she liked when giving her a bath. So I will begin to use treats to train her. She growled a couple of times but when placed on her back she responded nicely by stop growling and stop moving. She also looked away so I know she understands I'm the pack leader. When I had in this position I had the kids close to me so she could see them above her. When she calmed down we rubbed her belly and she actually liked it. I just enrolled her in puppy obedience class. She will start sept 14. Thank you all for the advice. Will keep you posted.
     
  12. Boxergirl

    Boxergirl Well-Known Member

    Please don't put her on her back. That's a really outdated method and there aren't any trainers that advocate that now - at least not any trainers with any knowledge of dog behavior. It may not be harmful for some dogs, but it can be extremely harmful for others. Putting them on their back often just makes you a big, scary person. Puppies growl for many reasons. As stated before, it's one of the only way they have to tell you that they are uncomfortable (afraid, hurting, etc) with what's happening.
     
  13. BlackShadowCaneCorso

    BlackShadowCaneCorso Super Moderator Staff Member

    We don't have any issues with Nothing in Life is Free but it is not done in a harsh way, I think it is about how it is applied. Like my children the dogs must earn their way and I don't enforce the rules the say with with my toddlers that I would with my teenagers, like I also train all puppies with positive methods but my adults do get corrections for not doing as asked. They know better and are required to follow the rules.

    Be very carefully rolling a pup, while she is young she might submit but you could end up on the wrong side of something nasty when she is bigger and decides this is unacceptable. It sounds like your girl is a little harder temperament than most have experienced and that will require more patience and an ability to not try to strong arm into doing what you want causing a liability. I can tell you from experience that the strong temperaments at times will seem like the worst thing in the world as they will always test and push buttons, never letting you become complacent but I would not trade my girls like this for anything in the world. They are my bomb proof girls that meet everything head on.
     
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  14. Nik

    Nik Well-Known Member

    I love Nothing in Life is Free. We just got back from a vacation (Maui) and I called the boarding place a few times to check in on our pups and they kept remarking in shock how well behaved our dogs were and how much they loved how well behaved they were (it was a new place closer to home that we were trying out and recommended by our trainer). We also had to let them know that when feeding they have to release them to eat since they are so used to having to earn the meal (sometimes just by sitting and waiting for our release before eating).

    As for rolling... I think it really depends on how it is done. We do it with our dogs but not in a violet, angry, punitive or aggressive way. We have been doing it with Diesel since he was a teeny pup and he absolutely loves it and will demand it daily. For us it is more of a guide into a bear hug on the ground and then while in position in the bear hug they get pets, love and kisses. If we have failed to "roll" or "bear hug" Diesel on any given day he starts rolling around on his back making crocodile sounds until we come over and put him in position and his tail will be wagging like mad the entire time. Kahlua is a bit different. She doesn't seem to love it in the same exact way (she doesn't literally demand it like Diesel does) but as soon as we start with the kisses and belly rubs in bear hug position she smothers us with kisses back and she loves belly rubs so for her going into bear hug "roll" position is always rewarded with something she adores. Just from how our dogs react I think it gives them a sense of security and confidence in us. And because we have always made it something that ends on a positive and happy note there is no forcing required. They just flop over for us. But if we don't actually envelope Diesel into that bear hug after he flops down he will start up with complaints, crocodile noises and weird talking noises until we comply.

    Anyhow I am pretty sure most on this forum wouldn't consider how we do it as "rolling" but I wanted to offer up that there is a positive way to do it. It's all the attitude you go into it with and how you frame it.

    For Diesel it was something we had to do when he was tiny to help calm him down. He was sooo hyperactive and would go into these crazy crocodile biting fits (not violent or angry or aggressive just him spinning out in hyperactivity but those baby teeth hurt when they caught you) so our trainer showed us how to guide him into a bearhug where he couldn't nip us with his razor sharp baby teeths. When he was a teeny thing it was a sitting up bear hug but as he grew we started to roll that bear hug onto the ground (typically on his soft fluffy bed or on our soft fluffy bed) as that was more comfy for him and us. But by the time he was big he already knew the drill and loved his bear hugs. It was something that helped calm him and sort of reset his crazy brain.

    Kahlua doesn't have the hyper active crazy brain issues but if we do something with one dog the other tends to get jealous so we try to keep things fair. So for her there was never an actual reason to do it other than being fair so we just frame it into something she likes by adding extra tummy rubs and letting her drench us with her tongue baths while we give her kisses.
     
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  15. Boxergirl

    Boxergirl Well-Known Member

    I don't consider that rolling, Nik. I also don't think you're one of those people that do not allow their dogs to ever, and the key word here is ever, come to them and ask for affection. At least not from everything I've read. That's where I think some people take it a bit far. I think it's perfectly fine for my dogs to come to me for affection and attention. If I am unable to give it then they should respect that - and they do. The only time I think that there needs to be such a strict implementation of NILF is if you have a dog with zero manners, that hasn't been raised with any rules, or is overly assertive in their method of asking for affection, or if there are true aggression problems. That's not a puppy. Say please and learn to earn are really not much different from NILF and I feel it's better structured for a young puppy. There's a book by Kathy Sdao which is very good (don't let any mention of her faith dissuade you, it's incidental) called Plenty in Life is Free.
     
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  16. Nik

    Nik Well-Known Member

    This is true. My dogs can ask for affection. If they ask rudely (ie jumping up when they haven't been invited to do so) then they are typically sent to their place instead of getting the attention. But, if they ask for attention politely then I usually give it to them 99% of the time. Food, treats, toys, play time, crossing door ways, letting them on the bed, etc. usually requires some sort of quick obedience to "earn" it. But, making them earn every bit of affection ever is a little bit much for me. And meals and treats are the most strictly enforced with NILF for us. Both dogs are highly food motivated so it is always a great time to work on obedience and new tricks.
     
  17. marke

    marke Well-Known Member

    i really wasn't clear on the aggression thing , imo aggression is aggression , where it's directed doesn't make it not aggression , the motivation behind it may be different , resource aggression can be directed at people as well as littermates , defensive aggression can be directed at both littermates and people , prey aggression , most dogs can differentiate between animals and people , but not all all the time ........... i know firsthand as well as anyone dogs that are animal aggressive are not neccessarily people aggressive , most all dogs learn to differentiate between animals and people ............i've had pups that would try to seriously hurt their littermates , some to the point i'd think they were trying to kill them , they'd bite you when you touched them to stop them , when you held them back they'd continue to try and seriously bite you ..... i 've had pups that would fight their littermates over food , and they'd bite you for trying to take their food also ...... i've had plenty of pups that would try to bite you for doing something they didn't like , like you said "what else can they do" , some pups just take longer for them to learn not to treat folks like their littermates , especially pups that don't get a lot of one on one from the breeder ........ i had a neo pup a vet told me was a problem because i had to hold her head at 8-9weeks , because she tried to bite him when he tried to put her on her side , she lived 12yrs with my babies/little kids , and was about as sweet as dogs get , he actually told me exactly what the op was told by his vet , i never went to that vet again , I was a kid and knew better than that ......... i think what the op described is normal puppy behavior and means nothing as to the dogs future ...... i also believe the best time for correction is as a puppy , it takes very little , pups are easy to correct , and you get a good assessment of how hard or soft the dog is , which is a good guide in how to handle it for the rest of it's life ...... the dogs I found to be the most dangerous to strangers were the soft pups , who usually grow up to be more distrustful ........ the only thing my pups or dogs ever get rolled over for is a belly rub , and they get lots of free stuff ............
     
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  18. Boxergirl

    Boxergirl Well-Known Member

    Marke, I agree with you.
     
  19. Ken Smith Jr

    Ken Smith Jr Active Member

    When I roll Gabby over it is to calm her down more than anything. Once she is calm I praise her and tell her how proud I am for listening to me. Then I rub her belly which she loves. I am not trying to take away her animal instincts. I also know growling is a her form of communicating something may be wrong. So I try very hard to pay attention to her. I'm just trying to make her know who the pack leader is in our home. Gabby has been and is a great dog. She is a very intelligent dog. She loves to please me and my family. She loves being around us and yes when she wants affection is not afraid to ask.
     
  20. Boxergirl

    Boxergirl Well-Known Member

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