Musings about our breed

[mcarrel]

I was musing about ddb today and how changed they seem to me from my own personal perspective from the time I had my first ddb Brutus in the early 90s until now. I came upon an old interview with Raymond Triquet from before they gained AKC recognition. He was for it so US could be shown overseas but cautious because of worry breeders here like extremes. He emphasized constant avg size of males about 127lbs and females 100lbs and not to breed for monsters. That's what I remembered when I got my Brutus that size of dog. When I finally came around to wanting another ddb I had a very hard time finding dogs in this size range, ddb that had drive of any kind or were more than just couch potatoes. What I did find was many breeders with large sized 145+ males and prizing large size in females as well and Ddb who seemed to me far too large or over wrinkled in some cases almost as if they had larger mastiffs in them.

Another thing I noticed was many ddb with stenotic nares, muzzles that were too short , lack of guardian instinct, and not much athleticism. Now I am not saying Brutus was running marathons but he lived in Texas, kept up with miles long walks with my rottweiler and apbt and was an energetic dog. Back then I was younger of course but it never occured to me that Brutus couldn't do what the other dogs did bc of heat or strenuous excercise or that he might drop dead because of it. It never occurred to me to be paranoid he won't make it to age 5.

So after this long winded musing my question is do others feel that this breed is getting extreme in physical aspects? That having an average life span of 5 years is ridiculous? If so any breeders on here that can shed some light as to what can be done about the issues in this breed if anything. Honestly with the lack of life span in ddb as much as I love them and think they are truly 1 of a kind I would be hard pressed to consider another after Kronos passes.

Thanks guys for reading my ramblings

 

[RissyRenee]

Hello! I enjoyed reading your "ramblings" haha! I have noticed some breeders advertising sizes/weight and I thought the same thing while looking for our DDB last year. Luckily, our females mother was 100lbs and at 1 yr she is approx. 75lbs. I am well aware that shell keep growing into year 2, but I am happy with her slow and steady weight progression. I am also surprised by her energy level and athleticism. She has much more energy than my 5 yr old Boxer (he is a lazy boxer haha). I would like to think shell be with us for more than 5 years!

 

[Th0r]

Thor is half DDB and half BM and I do hope he doesn't end up over 130lbs and does live at least 8-10 years.

Sent from my Nexus 5

 

[Bean]

This immediately came to mind when reading your post...

It was filmed in 1989... Is this the look you are referring to? Or is this the Americanized look that you are not in favour of?

It's funny you mentioned Texas... Isn't everything bigger in Texas (har har har just kidding)

 

[dheepakh]

Slow and steady growth is a way to go with these breeds. One of my friend has a gaint size male rottie(eats 600 grams of dry food a day)
which weighs 65kgs(143 lbs). He always make fun on my male BM telling that he is so small. My male BM weighs just 54kgs(118.8 lbs). I am happy that i am making him stay at this weight.

 

[mcarrel]

Luckily, our females mother was 100lbs and at 1 yr she is approx. 75lbs. I am well aware that shell keep growing into year 2, but I am happy with her slow and steady weight progression. I am also surprised by her energy level and athleticism. She has much more energy than my 5 yr old Boxer (he is a lazy boxer haha). I would like to think shell be with us for more than 5 years!

Now you've done it you popped another memory to add to my musings lol. Back when I had Brutus I saw one of the only other ddb I'd seen in person. She was a little bitch maybe 95lbs fully grown I saw her in a crate in a truck at a gas station. In the same truck were 2 other dogs. I stopped to chat to the older man who owned them because I was surprised to see a ddb. Not only was she very protective of her owner when I approached him but she was a hog catching dog.Can you imagine ? A ddb with drive and energy to be a hog dog lol

This immediately came to mind when reading your post...View attachment 37254

It was filmed in 1989... Is this the look you are referring to? Or is this the Americanized look that you are not in favour of?

It's funny you mention that movie I recall one of the (I believe 4) dogs they used to film that was 10 or 11 when the movie was made and what I remember he was the ddb that did the stunts and lived until age 14.

As for the look I was talking about they are ddb that have lips, wrinkles, excess skin (even around their ankles)and sometimes even bone that looks more like a nm than a ddb. They also have the sagging lower eye like nm where you can see cherry eye would be an issue.

 

[Bean]

Now you've done it you popped another memory to add to my musings lol. Back when I had Brutus I saw one of the only other ddb I'd seen in person. She was a little bitch maybe 95lbs fully grown I saw her in a crate in a truck at a gas station. In the same truck were 2 other dogs. I stopped to chat to the older man who owned them because I was surprised to see a ddb. Not only was she very protective of her owner when I approached him but she was a hog catching dog.Can you imagine ? A ddb with drive and energy to be a hog dog lol


It's funny you mention that movie I recall one of the (I believe 4) dogs they used to film that was 10 or 11 when the movie was made and what I remember he was the ddb that did the stunts and lived until age 14.

As for the look I was talking about they are ddb that have lips, wrinkles, excess skin (even around their ankles)and sometimes even bone that looks more like a nm than a ddb. They also have the sagging lower eye like nm where you can see cherry eye would be an issue.

It's unfortunate what lengths ppl will go to for physical appearance, and what little attention they pay to inner qualities... This goes for humans as well.

 

[Th0r]

Does anyone have a side by side of what they are supposed to look like and what they have become instead?
I'm really curious to see what the original breed standard looked like.

Sent from my Nexus 5

 

[Mooshi's Mummy]

I know very little about the DDB and its breed standard past or present but I do know that here in the UK this is one of the breeds that the UKKC investigates yearly at Crufts and many dogs get disqualified due to the 'extreme' breeding of the short muzzles etc. The Pug and Bull Dog are also on their hit list amongst others and IMO its about time!

 

[ruthcatrin]

I can't comment on size, but I know the closed nares is a common complaint in the breed, and not just in the US either unfortunetly!

 

[TN Dogues]

You bring up a very valid point. Many of the European imports are shorter, heavier and thicker in the chest. But many breeders here in the US are favoring the imports in their breeding programs. We tried to breed our female DDB to one of these Euro imports. He weighed a whopping 175 lbs. BUT he was shorter than my female. She is 23" at the withers and weighs a nice 119-123 lbs. However, this male was UNABLE to breed her naturally. She could not handle his weight. So, that tells me many of these breeders are using artificial insemination.

On the other hand, my male DDB is more old school. Like your Brutus. At the age of 2.5 years he is 24.5" at the withers, weighs about 115-119 and is very athletic. He can run for several miles, and has a great guarding instinct (not fond of strangers, but not aggressive or fearful). He could do hog hunting - he is that fit and has the right attitude.

 

[mcarrel]

We tried to breed our female DDB to one of these Euro imports. He weighed a whopping 175 lbs. BUT he was shorter than my female. She is 23" at the withers and weighs a nice 119-123 lbs.
Wow 175lb and shorter ? I can't even imagine that in a ddb.

On the other hand, my male DDB is more old school. Like your Brutus. At the age of 2.5 years he is 24.5" at the withers, weighs about 115-119 and is very athletic. He can run for several miles, and has a great guarding instinct (not fond of strangers, but not aggressive or fearful). He could do hog hunting - he is that fit and has the right attitude.

I saw his pictures he is lovely he looks like he can move

Kronos is almost 2 and 131 lbs (haven't measured his withers lately) I am hoping when he fills out he doesn't get too much bigger. I would actually prefer him a bit smaller lol. He also loves to run, play fetch, and and has a temperament I like and hasn't had any issues so far except some severe pano when he was younger even though he was growing slowly and was raw fed.

I know this breed has throwbacks shapes and sizes like sometimes small dogs come out or larger due to their reconstruction I just don't remember so many consistently big ddb back when I took an interest in this breed. I remember Park avenue had some bigger dogs and Hilltops(Riverbend ) had some big guys along with some of the Euros but back then they just seemed few and far between. I do remember one thing early 2000s when Brutus passed and I was looking for another ddb I read on a forum (can't remember which one) there was some drama because a well known overseas kennel (again can't remember which one) did actually influx some nm into their lines (late 90s early 2000s )and people were in an uproar and they were saying this is why so many large ddb were cropping up. I have tried finding the posts again but can't.

 

[mcarrel]

I can't comment on size, but I know the closed nares is a common complaint in the breed, and not just in the US either unfortunetly!

It's very unfortunate especially since the fci standard calls for Broad,well opened nostrils,I can't even imagine what the dog feels like trying to breath through a nose like that.

 

[mcarrel]

We tried to breed our female DDB to one of these Euro imports. He weighed a whopping 175 lbs. BUT he was shorter than my female. She is 23" at the withers and weighs a nice 119-123 lbs. However, this male was UNABLE to breed her naturally.

I cannot even imagine a 175 lb ddb and at that height, wow.

 

[ruthcatrin]

It's very unfortunate especially since the fci standard calls for Broad,well opened nostrils,I can't even imagine what the dog feels like trying to breath through a nose like that.

No me either!

 

[NYDDB]

I think DDBs are one of those breeds, unfortunately, that are ripe for over-exaggeration of certain traits, esp. by greedy or ignorant breeders. I met a DDB breeder from New Jersey that was not so concerned about temperament (!), but that his stock produced the biggest heads, with shorter muzzles. Yikes. This attitude, sadly, is what will begin to ruin this breed. "Like wrinkles? We'll produce Dogues with even more...!" And so on.

Mateo will turn 3 in May, is 26" at the withers, and weighs 139 pounds. But, he is not heavy by any means, and is unusually active, going on 2 hour hikes every day, part on-leash, part off. He likes to run, climb, wrestle and has a pretty strong prey drive (squirrels.)

He's my first DDB, and hopefully not my last, as I love the breed. But, I sometimes worry about where the breed might be headed...

 

[cinnamon roll]

What is the average life span on a DDB? I have read so many different numbers I don't know what to believe anymore.

 

[mcarrel]

I agree NYDDB and Mateo is just awesome. I love seeing his out and about pictures. I love seeing active ddbs and imho is what should be the norm for them not the exception. I hope there are active breeders that continue producing ddbs with that in mind. I truly love these guys I have loved all my dogs and their individual traits EM, Rottweiler, Great Pyrenees but imho there is just something very special and unique about a ddb (although I am sure everyone feels the same about their breed ) My friend said something that sounds strange but she may have hit the nail on the head when she said Kronos is the most "human like" dog she's ever met met in his expression and behavior.

 

[mcarrel]

What is the average life span on a DDB? I have read so many different numbers I don't know what to believe anymore.

About 5 years old and many don't make it that long. The males seem to die younger than the females.

 

[cinnamon roll]

WOW!! Do you know the reason behind such a short life span? Even Em's live longer than that.

About 5 years old and some don't make it that long. The males seem to die younger than the females.