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Mouthy EM

My Samson is 15 months old. Lately, he's become quite "mouthy". He doesn't like anyone rough housing around him...so if my boys are wrestling, he mouths them until the wrestling stops. He doesn't like screaming or loud squeal toddler noises. So when my Autistic 4 year old son jumps around and squeals with delight, Samson nips him, usually right on the face. I don't believe he's trying to hurt anyone. The nipping is never accompanied by growling noises nor does my dog seem distressed. He just doesn't like my son to do that. If my husband has the baby on his shoulders, he nips at my husbands butt. BUT, the same loud 4 year old can lay curled up with Samson and play on the iPad or just cuddle and Samson is totally ok with that.

We have 4 kids and there are a lot if kids in and out of my house. I would be horrified if he nipped at one of my friend's children...I mean, he's giant and scary looking even though he's sweet and gentle as can be. Still, if you're a small child and a dog that size nips you on the face, especially when the dog outweighs you by over 100 pounds, it's probably quite traumatic.

I have no idea how to stop this behavior. The older he gets, the more he wants things "HIS WAY"...which is a quiet peaceful household.

Does anyone have experience with this, or and ideas how to stop this behavior?

Thanks so much :)

Beth
 

Max's mom

Well-Known Member
Face nipping is a really bad thing, especially for kids and a dog this big. The worst dog bite injury I saw on the face was on a man who was playing with his friend's EM, he blew in his face and the dog nipped forward at the guy. Caught the bridge of his nose and upper lip and the guy got scared and pulled his face back quickly...unfortunately, the dog was attached. He required a lot of stitches. I don't know how to fix this, but I wish you luck figuring it out. Does the dog have a quiet place to go when the kids are really worked up?
 

maryl

Well-Known Member
Please don't take this the wrong way, but you are allowing the dog to make decisions regarding the kids. This will get worse until you show leadership.The dog should never be "nipping" at anyone for any reason. You must make very clear to him that you will control the children (and anything else), not him.
 
Please don't take this the wrong way, but you are allowing the dog to make decisions regarding the kids. This will get worse until you show leadership.The dog should never be "nipping" at anyone for any reason. You must make very clear to him that you will control the children (and anything else), not him.

I absolutely agree. But how do I do that?
 
Face nipping is a really bad thing, especially for kids and a dog this big. The worst dog bite injury I saw on the face was on a man who was playing with his friend's EM, he blew in his face and the dog nipped forward at the guy. Caught the bridge of his nose and upper lip and the guy got scared and pulled his face back quickly...unfortunately, the dog was attached. He required a lot of stitches. I don't know how to fix this, but I wish you luck figuring it out. Does the dog have a quiet place to go when the kids are really worked up?

That sounds awful!!! He does have a place to go, but he
prefers our company to his own. He follows me around the house wherever I go. If I go pee, he comes too...lol
 

maryl

Well-Known Member
atcbravozulu, What do you usually use as a correction when he does something wrong? Have you taught him the "place" command or stay? He needs to know that when you say something it must be followed each and every time. He should not be allowed to get away with anything until he does understand. Practice NILIF. Get between him and the children. It also go without saying that the children should be taught to respect the dog.
 

DennasMom

Well-Known Member
I would let the dog know - in no uncertain terms (put on your best "angry Mom" face) - that HE is NOT the one in charge... and that if he doesn't like the excitement in the room, he can remove himself to another location. Does he have a bed or crate in a bedroom where he can have his peace and quiet?

Anytime you see him starting to get antsy and think he might be needing to 'nip the excitement in the bud'... give him a "no" or "eh eh"... and send him out of the room to his "quiet place". Then, let the kids ramp up the excitement (as a challenge to the dog to come back) with you blocking the dog - keeping him out of the room. If he tries to come in and referee... send him back out again. Be firm. Let him know this is YOUR game, and YOUR rules... and he just has to deal with it.... and Go Lay Down. :)

Once the kids are done being loud and exciting, you can invite him back into the room, if he hasn't already rejoined you peacefully.
It sounds like he'd rather be with you, so you just need to let him know that to be in the room, he has to let the kids have fun, and not referee.

It will probably take a number of repetitions, but just keep at it.

This is basically how we keep Denna from nipping the vacuum to make it stop... we send her away to Go Lay Down. It's not enough to tell her "No" or "Stop"... we have to give her something else to go do (the "Place" command is perfect for this).

If you need extra reinforcement, send Samson to his "quiet place" with a stuffed kong or other special treat, so Exciting Kids = Get a Treat in the back bedroom (and leave the kids alone).
 

karennj

Well-Known Member
I had this issue with Bear. When I first got him at 10 months he was ridiculous with the kids if they ran, crawled, jumped, wrestled, cried, etc. He was definitely the worst when the kids wrestled, fought, cried or a child was picked up. He would bark and mouth/nip at them. Sometimes it was excitement, sometimes it was anxiousness. Anyway, it sounds like your boy is in the same boat. Here are some things that we did, maybe it will help you.

For times I could not control the situation:
Bear was on leash and tethered to me (belt around my waist) whenever the kids may get loud. I knew certain times of the day that were most likely to cause an issue and would keep Bear tethered during those times. A few times a day we had quiet time that I knew the kids would be relaxed (watching a movie, reading books, etc) and those times Bear was off leash. When Bear was not leashed I basically had a leash attached to me ready to leash Bear if a fight broke out or someone started crying. It is not easy to ignore your children if they are full out brawling or crying but that is what I had to do until I could get bear restrained and in his crate or behind the gate. I had gates placed around the downstairs (the hotbed of activity) so I could quickly put Bear on the other side of a gate so he could still observe the commotion but not be in the middle of it. Space is your friend so when the kids do something that triggers him, create enough space that he is not reacting. The goal here is to keep the dog from reinforcing the bad behavior of biting when the kids do one of his triggers. If I was too busy to keep a hawk eye on Bear, he was separated from the kids.

For times I could control the situation:
Probably 2 times a day we worked on desensitizing Bear to the triggers. I knew picking up children, kids fighting and kids crying were 3 of his top triggers. I would fill my treat bag of really good treats and have the kids act out the behavior and we worked on one thing at a time. We started with fighting and I had the kids act out fighting with each other while I had Bear on leash 2 rooms away. I had to find the distance that he could watch them but not react (pull towards them). I had the kids start fighting and I gave him treats over and over. I would tell the kids to stop and all treats would stop. Then I would tell them to start again and I would feed him the treats. Eventually he would look to them and then look back at me for the treats. I would also occasionally do obedience training with him while the mehem was occuring in the other room so I knew I could get his focus over the kids. I did this over and over slowly moving towards the kids until we were literally 1 foot from the kids wrestling on the floor. We stayed that close for awhile before I allowed him off leash when the kids were play fighting. Most of the time I put him in a down so I knew he could relax better. It probably took 2 weeks but now my kids can full out brawl right next to him and he would just lay there. I retrained him that kids fighting is a good thing and I occasionally still toss him a treat when the kids are all crazy to reinforce it (always have treats around the house). We did this with every one of his triggers. Picking up kids probably took the longest one to break but now when I pick up my son he goes to bark and then remembers if he sits quietly he gets something yummy. You can see him thinking about it. He overrides his previous behavior and his but hits the floor and he looks to me for his treat. Kid picked up = sit for yummy treat. Eventually after some time of intermittent treats you can cut the treats off because it becomes muscle memory. Kid picked up = sit.

Once we retrained Bear with all our triggers we had to train him that the same goes for other kids as well but that was a very quick process. In all it took us a few weeks of consistent work to desensitize him to those 3 situations. Bear actually had a lot more triggers (crawling, jumping, riding bikes, sledding, swinging) but those 3 were the worst. We trained him the same way on every one of his triggers and now he is a totally different dog. It absolutely can be done. You just have to train the dog a new behavior when the triggers are presented.

Another thing I did with Bear is we have a no mouthing rule with everyone. NO ONE is allowed to play rough with Bear and he is NOT allowed to put his mouth on anyone. As soon as he tried to mouth someone he was put in a time out. I didn't say a word to him, just calmly removed him from the room for a couple minute time out and repeated if he tried to mouth again. You need to have no tolerance for mouthing even in play with adults.

I do want to say that I do not believe in harsh corrections for this type of behavior. I seriously contemplated using a shock collar or water spray bottle to deal with this before I read the consequences of such corrections. One thing I knew was that I did not want Bear to associate pain/negativity with my children. That is why I believe teaching him a different behavior and desensitizing is the right way to go here. You want the children to equal positive things.
 

karennj

Well-Known Member
If you want you can PM me if you have any other questions. I know how frustrating (and scary) it is to deal with this!
 

Masteel

New Member
Another thing I did with Bear is we have a no mouthing rule with everyone. NO ONE is allowed to play rough with Bear and he is NOT allowed to put his mouth on anyone. As soon as he tried to mouth someone he was put in a time out. I didn't say a word to him, just calmly removed him from the room for a couple minute time out and repeated if he tried to mouth again. You need to have no tolerance for mouthing even in play with adults.

Hello,

How old was bear when the mouthing was being corrected with this method. Lola is 13 weeks, i realise this is still young. the mouthing is getting worse. we are doing all the things they say. distract, redirect, approach with a toy etc...

is she to young for this zero tolerance time out ? did it work with bear ? We have plenty of toys, use lots of redirection and i am sure this will work in the long run.

But if the zero tolerance time out method you mention works even from the young age. I will give it a go.

thanks
Aaron
 

karennj

Well-Known Member
He was 10months. She is really young and a lot of that is due to her age. For her as soon as she puts her mouth on you screech in pain and quickly walk away making sure to not look at her or interact with her for a bit. If she follows and tries to play, go behind a gate or door so she can't. Gates are your friends with a pup. It is going to take awhile, and your not going to see a change overnight but if your consistent it will stop. She just has to grow up a bit still.

Sent from my ALCATEL ONE TOUCH 4037T using Tapatalk
 

TWW

Well-Known Member
The face mouthing is extremely dangerous and should be stop. It does not take biting hard it only takes someone jerking away and it could be a mess as stated above.

EM's will always trying to get in the middle and break up rough housing kids, but this should only be them using there weight to separate the kids, no mouthing involved.

Mouthing/nipping/biting should be to stop threatening actions, and as a last option for a EM.