Fear Aggression... HELP PLS!!!

[Arivera1125]

Hello everyone,

Chief has some severe fear aggression. He recently got asked to drop out of an obedience school because he growled at the trainer and lounged toward her. He was then categorized as "highly aggressive" and we were asked to leave (Don't get me started on how upset I was about it). I know that this is common for CC pups, but what are some of the best practices I can start teaching Chief?

Also, we have been trying the "Strangers give Chief treats" approach but Chief takes the treat and then growls at them. He lounges at men more than women.

Please help a new CC mommy! I don't want my pup to fear others and I don't want people to be scared of my pup.


Thank you,
Addie & Chief

 

[teodora]

and how do you know it's "fear aggression"?
Did he has a traumatic experience in the past? Was he rescued?

 

[Arivera1125]

I believe it's fear aggression because he growls and lounges when strangers are too close to him. He will not lounge at someone who is on the other side of the room. He wasn't rescued, we was bought from a breeder. Both parents have pretty passive personalities. This leads me and the vet to believe that Chief suffers from fear aggression.

 

[musicdeb]

Fear aggression is usually caused by the pup has experienced pain due to a behavior.

Sounds like he needs to learn how to approach others and play well with other pups. Was he socialized as a puppy? How old is Chief?

 

[irina]

Have you talked to your breeder? What does he/she say?

 

[irina]

More experienced corso owners can correct me, but I don't think fear agression is common with cc pups. Yes, they are often suspicious of strangers, but generally not aggressive and usually not fearful. It just depends on the individual dog, I disagree that it is a breed trait.

 

[Hector]

Whether the dog experienced trauma or not, it is still fear aggression. A lack of nerves also causes fear aggression (genetics). This can be helped with obedience and maturity, but a dog that has a weak nervous system (lacks good coping mechanisms when stressed) will always be fear aggressive. If the dog feels stressed, it will react.

Here's a good article on why you shouldn't have strangers giving your dog treats:

http://4pawsu.com/StrangersTreats.htm

"MYTHBUSTING MONDAY! When dogs begin to show signs of aggression toward strangers (which is almost always fear-based), dog owners are often told to have strangers give the dog treats. While this advice is based on the foundation of positive methods - that the dog will form a more positive association to strangers - it has a high risk of failure.
First, if the treat is presented as an enticement to approach the stranger (which is, without question, a bribe), it puts the dog in a state of conflict. The dog wants the treat, but doesn't want to get that close to the stranger. Conflict.
Once the dog approaches and eats the offered treat, the dog suddenly finds itself much closer to the stranger than they are comfortable with, and no more food is available to make the close contact more tolerable.
Aggressive displays (growling, barking, lunging, snapping, and inhibited bites) are all designed to put distance between the dog and the perceived threat. When a stranger is too close for the dog's comfort, the dog is very likely to resort to what instinct says will keep them safe. So, instead of creating a positive association to strangers, we've done the opposite...and given the dog an opportunity to practice aggression.
Dogs do what works. If growling, barking, lunging, and/or snapping works, the dog will continue to use those behaviors around strangers.
Second, when the approach does lead to the dog learning that strangers = treats, the result can be a dog that runs up to strangers in anticipation of treat delivery. Great! We created a positive association, what's so bad about that?
Well, what does a dog look like when it anticipates treats? Friendly. The stranger sees a "friendly" dog approaching but, instead of giving the dog a treat, reaches out to pet him, setting the dog up to, once again, practice aggression and reinforce the negative association to strangers.
Third, many well-meaning dog lovers who are happy to help out may give the fearful dog a treat, but just can't leave it at that. When they can't resist the urge to reach out to pet the dog, we've set the dog up to learn that treat = trap. I've seen plenty of dogs that start barking and growling at a treat extended as a peace offering.
So, how DO you get a fearful dog used to strangers? Take a GIANT step back. Dogs do not need to make contact with the thing they fear for behavior modification to begin.
Instead of having strangers feed your dog, start by working on more desirable behaviors when strangers are at a safe distance (your dog's behavior will determine what that distance is - it could be the other side of the living room, or it could be the back of a large and mostly empty parking lot) and all the treats come from you.
Your first goal should not be to get your dog to like strangers, it should be to get your dog to see strangers as an opportunity to earn great rewards from you.
The next step varies greatly depending on your dog, the environment, the stranger, and more. Which is why when it comes to dogs who exhibit aggression towards strangers, working with a qualified dog behavior professional is imperative.
But first, start with this great book by Laura VanArendonk Baugh. Fired Up outlines exactly how to break down a behavior modification program for your dog. Use it to learn how to start working with your dog on your own and/or as a guide to finding a professional who understands how to break behaviors down into small, easily achievable steps.
http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm…
And, of course, dismiss any advice designed to punish aggressive behavior. Aggressive displays are a symptom of the dog's underlying emotion in the presence of a perceived threat. Adding something scary or painful is not going to change that emotion...at least not for the better

Find a class that you like, a trainer that understands fearful dogs and uses positive methods. Forget the haters, there's nothing you can do or say to convince them that your dog is only scared. Obviously, your aggressive pup was too much for that trainer to handle. Exposure and obedience is key. Train him yourself, it's not hard to train basic obedience. Start with duration and then train distance and distractions. Youtube is an excellent source for tutorials. If you are looking for anything specific, I can help you find some.

I would work on his focus and do exercises that increase engagement from both sides. You can't go wrong with that.

 

[marti1357]

Being suspended from obedience school is not so terrible. That trainer simply didn't want to take the time and effort to deal with Chief.
You may need a personal trainer or behaviorist who specializes in large breeds. That person should spend time with the dog and diagnose if it is indeed a fear phase, or something else. I wouldn't take the word of the obedience school trainer before somebody else sees the dog.
Anyway, most work will be done by you, with patience and consistency.
At his age it may be a temporary phase and he may grow out of it. That being said, now its the time to correct it before it escalates as he matures. Later, it will be more difficult to deal with.

 

[Arivera1125]

I sure hope my pup didn't experience fear while at the breeders. Chief is 4 months old and we got him on Halloween.

Chief is actually a lot better with dogs than people. He plays well with smaller and larger dogs. He is frequently exposed to a Chihuahua, 1 yr old Dalmatian, and 2 full grown Pit Bulls. He plays well with them but often needs time outs to settle down and catch his breath. We are going to continue to socialize him with people.

Irina, I haven't asked the breeders what they thought about it. I should reach out. I read an article that said that due to CC's having a natural instinct to protect, they experience fear aggression at early ages in their life because they want to protect their owners/domain but are still scared of things they haven't been exposed to. Perhaps the article was wrong.

Hector, that's actually a great spin on it. We have stopped using the treat "trick" because Chief takes the treat and then growls at the person. Thank you so much for that insight. I will have to look for trainers that specialize in larger breeds. Clearly, that obedience school isn't ready for my baby.

Marti1357, you're right! We need to find a better fit. My Chief is going to teach me patience for sure! I'm truly hoping it's a temp. stage.

 

[cj-sharpy]

Defiantly personal trainer, and ask all you call if they have experience of large breeds, CCs and aggressive behavior.
I'd say it is fear aggression if it's based on proximity. He's not pulling across the road to get people after all.
Is he wary of strangers near him or near you do you think?
I can only speak from experience but Max shows signs that he's unhappy with people to close to me or in his house. We are still working on it but I'll often walk him past the pub and see lads I know. I'll get as close as max feels comfortable and stop to talk (looked stupid when I had to shout at my friends from half way across the car park) then as he went from protective to curious we could move in a few feet. This worked well as he recognized regular faces but there would always be one or two new faces.
Also if anyone needs to be close tell them they don't even look at the dog. No touching, no petting, no saying his name, don't even acknowledge his existence. Eventually he should become curious and approach them on his own terms.

 

[LizB]

I will just echo Hector on this - fearfulness and anxiety is not necessarily related to an event or trauma, and could just simply be part of the dog's DNA, though traumatic events certainly can contribute. However, you've probably heard of or know dogs that have been through incredible traumas and neglect, and never show the first indication of anxiety or aggression.

I have a fearful aggressive dog now that, thank my lucky stars, was permitted to remain in class after class at the obedience school, and we just had to warn people to keep their distance, and when he got overwhelmed (usually about 35-40 mins after arriving) we'd quietly take him a distance away in a quiet corner where he could watch but was not participating. He growled and gave hackles to anyone who approach, lunged at other dogs who got too close, etc., but for some reason they didn't turn us away. He is still a little bit like this, and likely always will be, but he's much better. Confidence-building exercises are needed here, and protect the dog from being overwhelmed, and don't put the dog into the situations that trigger the response.

You've got some work ahead but pay close attention and keep the dog's life and daily schedule as predictable as possible. When every day goes the same way the dog gains confidence. Slowly, slowly work your way up to a more varied routine. Good luck!

 

[DennasMom]

I agree with all the above - at 4 months old, you can tackle this and teach your Chief to be a happy, well-adjusted pup... a good trainer that can work with you and provide insight on his reactions would be very helpful.

I'd say the class trainer failed YOU, not that you failed the class!

How does he react to new things - is he afraid of, say, an umbrella opening? or loud noises? keep introducing him used to "new" stuff (people, places, things), and encourage curiosity and investigative behaviors. Maybe work with him on hide-and-seek games and scent work, to make him work his nose and use his brain a bit... versus just going on instincts and reactions.

If you can let him know what you want him to DO when you meet strangers, so he has a "job"... that might help. I put Denna in a sit when strangers approach, and then use "say Hi" or "go say Hi" to cue Denna that a stranger has been approved and has been deemed "ok to approach". If he continues to growl and show discomfort - the idea of backing away to a safe distance is great. Better than removing him completely, as then he doesn't have to learn to deal with the item/person... but if he can view it comfortably from a distance, hopefully he'll learn that it's not such a bad thing next time it happens.

 

[Arivera1125]

Thanks again everyone!!!

CJ-Sharpy, we have started putting Chief on a leash when people come over. It's a bit strange that we have to shout from the other side of the room, but Chief did better with this method last night.

Thank you LizB! I spoke with the trainer yesterday and she apologized for her lack of empathy for our situation. She has refunded me my money and asked for suggestions on how to handle these types of things in the future. I told her that letting Chief stay in the class but putting him in a far corner would have been better. Chief has mastered every single command and is doing well in high distraction areas (outside, grandma's house, etc.). He only growled once and that was when the trainer got too close for comfort.

DennasMom, I completely agree! They failed us BIG time! Chief is not too scared of new sounds. He doesn't like the blow dryer much but doesn't mind the hardwood floor steamer we have that makes a loud whistling sound. Slowly but surely, we are exposing him to different sounds.

 

[cj-sharpy]

Leash in the house is a great idea. It gives you control should he act up ad also is a solid bond between him and you so may calm him a little.
I hear ya about strange sounds. Max hated the vacuum cleaner at first. Don't think he'd heard one before in his first 5years. But given his shedding its out everyday. He still growls and barks at it now but with with bum up in a "let's play" position.

 

[Arivera1125]

Leash in the house is a great idea. It gives you control should he act up ad also is a solid bond between him and you so may calm him a little.
I hear ya about strange sounds. Max hated the vacuum cleaner at first. Don't think he'd heard one before in his first 5years. But given his shedding its out everyday. He still growls and barks at it now but with with bum up in a "let's play" position.

Yes, a leash in the house has been helpful. We try to leave it very loose so that we don't have to rely on it much later on. He knows the command "settle" very well, which is when he puts himself in a "belly rub position." He really thrives on learning new commands. He loves it.