dog nipping

[season]

I know I'm not a dog but if my mom told me No when she caught me doing something I shouldn't be that's all I needed. I stopped. I believed her correction. I didn't ask why or for an alternative. Same (in my opinion with my dogs). I don't need to always give him alternatives. There is already a built in alternative. I say No. He stops. At that point he could go on and lick his balls for all I care. Just stop doing what you were doing. Telling a dog no is not s bad thing. For me it's universal. Now that he is 2 the "no's" are few and far between.


Carpe Diem

 

[teodora]

Some dogs are more "reasonable" than others: Luna will listen by default and if i tell her no she stops. Immediately. Then, next day, she'll do the same. I tell her no she stops. She'll do whatever I tell her, as long as she knows the word. Jump u the window - she'll do it. Jump back - she'll do it. No obedience issues whatsoever. She heels from day 1. She's a dream from this point of view, but it's all short term. She'll stop ow, she'll continue tomorrow. Sophia is the opposite: she needs more explanations, she will be VERY sorry if she's done something wrong and never do it again.Jack is smart - and trying to "bypass the system" in very creative ways. So I bbelieve that with some dogs one "no" is enough (combination between my two girls...) and with others it takes ages.

 

[EM Nani]

Our girl is 19 weeks and teething is in full motion. I notice that she is nipping more than usual and so I'm assuming that its because of the that. I totally understand where you are coming from. I can be sitting there with her while she's chewing on a toy or something and she would stop to nip at me. I usually try and give the the chew again, but if she tries it again i move her off the couch or get up and walk away. If nani then continues to chew on her toy again I tell her " good girl", give her a few pets and sit back down. There are those random moments when she'll jump up to bite my hair or nip my butt, that I have no tolerance for since I'm short (I'm 5 ft tall); I don't want her to be full grown and think that that is okay. When this happens I say "no, bad girl" (very deep and loud) then do 1 of 2 things; 1. command/make her to sit and lay down or (when she refuses to stop) 2. I put her in timeout (her ex-pen) for a couple of minutes and ignore her. The important thing that my husband and I do after we can see she is remorseful, is give her lovings only after being told, "yes, good girl" and gets a treat. I know there are some that may see this as coddling, but this is our way to show her that she gets treats and love when she is being a good girl".

 

[Boxergirl]

Mouthing was included in our "leave it" command. My dogs understand "leave it" to mean drop whatever you have, stop whatever you're doing, etc. and come to me now. I also don't usually use the word "no" because I think it's too overused in day-to-day interactions. They know that "enough" means to stop. Like if we're playing and it's time to stop. I use "leave it" and "enough" for similar but different things and it works well for us. Both words give me an opportunity to praise them for doing what I want them to do. I think just saying "no" and not showing your dog what an acceptable alternate behavior is is limiting what your dog is learning. In my experience, teaching what I do want them to do stops many behaviors I don't want them doing before they even start. I found this to be true for children as well. I worked very hard to not be the "because I said so" parent, and as a result I ended up with individuals that were able to understand why I didn't want them doing something and they were then able to make better choices on their own. And no - animals and dogs are not the same and I don't think my dogs are furry children, but teaching them really is remarkably similar.

 

[Hiraeth]

Mouthing was included in our "leave it" command. My dogs understand "leave it" to mean drop whatever you have, stop whatever you're doing, etc. and come to me now. I also don't usually use the word "no" because I think it's too overused in day-to-day interactions. They know that "enough" means to stop. Like if we're playing and it's time to stop. I use "leave it" and "enough" for similar but different things and it works well for us. Both words give me an opportunity to praise them for doing what I want them to do. I think just saying "no" and not showing your dog what an acceptable alternate behavior is is limiting what your dog is learning. In my experience, teaching what I do want them to do stops many behaviors I don't want them doing before they even start. I found this to be true for children as well. I worked very hard to not be the "because I said so" parent, and as a result I ended up with individuals that were able to understand why I didn't want them doing something and they were then able to make better choices on their own. And no - animals and dogs are not the same and I don't think my dogs are furry children, but teaching them really is remarkably similar.

I agree. Using "no" as a universal command doesn't work for many dogs. "No" can't mean 'stop barking', 'leave that thing alone', 'get off the couch', 'drop that', 'stop barking', etc. Using "no" as a universal command is limiting and confusing to many dogs.

If instead you teach "leave it" for certain things (stop bothering the other dogs, don't grab that object), "drop it" (drop whatever you have), "enough" for certain things (stop barking), and "off" for certain things (get off that couch), and you follow that behavior up with a command that you can reward for that is countering the undesired behavior, you'll be teaching your dogs how you want them to behave.

I had "because I told you so" parents. And by the time I hit my adolescence, I stopped doing what they asked because even if I obeyed, I never got a positive from them in return. So what reason did I ever have to do what they asked me to? Children and dogs are not comparable in many ways, but I completely agree that the way you approach teaching them is very important in maintaining your personal relationship with them.

 

[season]

I agree. Using "no" as a universal command doesn't work for many dogs. "No" can't mean 'stop barking', 'leave that thing alone', 'get off the couch', 'drop that', 'stop barking', etc. Using "no" as a universal command is limiting and confusing to many dogs.

No is universal in my house. And it also works for Solo. And when he stops the word (and pat on the head) "good" also does the trick.


Carpe Diem

 

[season]

I agree, praise is a good thing. My mom told me what to do and I did it. I didn't ask questions. I did it or stopped doing it because I trusted her. I believed her. Did I do things in order to get praised? No. I had two choices. Do what I'm suppose to do because I'm suppose to do it or not. Very simple. Simple. Sometimes I made the choice to do what I knew I shouldn't simply because I wanted to. I was stubborn. But I also knew the risk I was taking in doing it. We have those same choices as adults. I speed sometimes. I know if I get caught I'll get a ticket. I also know I'll slow down if I see a cop. Choices. I also don't do my job because I want praise. Is it nice? Sure. But I don't need it. Same way in working with dogs. I don't need to praise Solo every time he does what he's suppose to. And he doesn't expect it. I don't have to correct him and tell him No constantly either. He makes his own choices now. I'm there to lead him and help him if he's stuck but I don't need to constantly be supplying him with treats or praise or corrections. I'm at this point because I taught him early that No means No. No compromise. Do what's expected. What's expected is clear. Confusion is not part of the equation.


Carpe Diem

 

[Hiraeth]

I agree, praise is a good thing. My mom told me what to do and I did it. I didn't ask questions. I did it or stopped doing it because I trusted her. I believed her. Did I do things in order to get praised? No. I had two choices. Do what I'm suppose to do because I'm suppose to do it or not. Very simple. Simple. Sometimes I made the choice to do what I knew I shouldn't simply because I wanted to. I was stubborn. But I also knew the risk I was taking in doing it. We have those same choices as adults. I speed sometimes. I know if I get caught I'll get a ticket. I also know I'll slow down if I see a cop. Choices. I also don't do my job because I want praise. Is it nice? Sure. But I don't need it. Same way in working with dogs. I don't need to praise Solo every time he does what he's suppose to. And he doesn't expect it. I don't have to correct him and tell him No constantly either. He makes his own choices now. I'm there to lead him and help him if he's stuck but I don't need to constantly be supplying him with treats or praise or corrections. I'm at this point because I taught him early that No means No. No compromise. Do what's expected. What's expected is clear. Confusion is not part of the equation. Carpe Diem

Solo sounds like an intelligent and perceptive dog who is clear about what is expected. You also sound like you are clear in what you expect FROM him.

I think it's important to understand that many dogs are not like Solo. Some puppies, if you tell them "no" when they nip, are going to come back harder. And if you then yell "no", they'll come back harder still. And if you use a squirt bottle, then a nose tap, then a jaw grab, then a smack - harder still each time. How far are you going to escalate that situation? As far as it takes? To beating the dog to make it stop? Because that's how VERY drive-y dogs (like the Shepherds I've worked with for a decade) respond to correction when they're overstimulated and over threshold.

Also, I think that you are very good at communicating at Solo what you expect from him. It's important to realize that many people are NOT good at communicating with their dogs and use interruptors like "no" in a way that clearly directs the dog what is unwanted. Telling a dog "no" after it has grabbed something off the counter and eaten it doesn't work - the dog has already self-rewarded and your 'no' doesn't mean anything. Interruptors, like clickers or positive markers, need to be used with precise timing to teach the dog what is expected and what isn't.

Positive reinforcement and teaching a dog how to behave will work for everyone. Aversive training doesn't work for everyone. Some dogs are so timid that a stern "no" will send them scurrying away from their owners. Some dogs are so hard that if you say "no", they will bite you harder. Part of being a good trainer is finding methods that work for you. Part of being a great trainer (Ian Dunbar, Susan Garrett and Patricia McConnell come to mind when I say 'great') is realizing that different methods work for different people, and just because something works for someone doesn't mean it will work for someone else.

So when we're recommending training advice to people over the internet, who we can't see or observe, it's far safer to recommend things that NO dog will find aversive and that will work towards instilling the desired behaviors in non-harmful ways versus recommending something that a dog may or may not find aversive, depending on its personality.

 

[season]

I hear you. If anyone tells a dog No after eating a sandwich off the counter is clueless and should prob have a fish. Teaching a dog No and the value in that word is teaching a dog how to behave.


Carpe Diem

 

[Rugers-Kris]

There is nothing wrong with saying no to a dog. Also, When mine were puppies I taught them to stop nipping by saying no and if it continued, I turned away. What they learned was that if they wanted to play, they had to so appropriately. I am not sure how you are imagining me or others saying to but I assure you that I didn't say it in a way that would shock or scare my puppies so maybe that is where the disconnect is? At any given time of the day regardless of what one of mine are doing I can say (or sign) no and they stop doing it. They fully understand what no means. I taught mine tons of commands and I use then but no is universal and they understand it and certainly aren't shocked or scared by it.

 

[Hiraeth]

There is nothing wrong with saying no to a dog. Also, When mine were puppies I taught them to stop nipping by saying no and if it continued, I turned away. What they learned was that if they wanted to play, they had to so appropriately. I am not sure how you are imagining me or others saying to but I assure you that I didn't say it in a way that would shock or scare my puppies so maybe that is where the disconnect is? At any given time of the day regardless of what one of mine are doing I can say (or sign) no and they stop doing it. They fully understand what no means. I taught mine tons of commands and I use then but no is universal and they understand it and certainly aren't shocked or scared by it.

How did you teach them what 'no' means? Because they aren't mind readers, and they don't understand English. It's an interrupter. In order to interrupt, it needs to shock or scare the dog into stopping whatever behavior they're performing.

I can see "no" working if you said it a few times, then turned away and ignored the dog. Because then "no" means "I'm going to ignore you". But how do you teach them that "no" means "drop that thing", or "stop barking", or "don't run out that door"?

To me, using "no" as a universal correction is a bit silly. Like when your parents say "stop doing that" and you say "why?" and they say "because I said so". "No" is the "because I said so" of the dog world.

 

[season]

How do u show a dog what "good" means? No different then saying No. And "because I said so" in my book isn't a bad thing either. My mom didn't owe me an explanation every time she told me no. Ppl don't ask why when they get what they want. "Mom, can I have that cookie?" "Yes." "But why?"
When I praise Solo he knows what it means through the energy. The tone of my voice. Same with no. I don't yell. Don't need to. He knows. Simple as that. So it may seem silly to u but it isn't to me. It works for me and Solo. It's not complicated. Dogs need correction. No one will convince me otherwise. Correction isn't beating your dog as many "positive" ppl try to paint it. In my opinion far more dogs are ruined by all this positive only bs.


Carpe Diem

 

[Rugers-Kris]

I was raised by "I told you so" people and don't have an issue with it. You don't have to shock or scare a dog to make them understand. I don't scream or yell or get angry with my boys but they know the difference between no and good boy. They are confident, happy and healthy boys. As a great example I use no with Magnum as a puppy, too and he is deaf so I signed it and he understood as well so I didn't shock or scare him either. When I turned away they didn't learn that I would ignore them, they learned that what they were doing was unacceptable and the behavior had to be stopped if they wanted to play. "I told you so" really doesn't apply anyway ....I told you so is instruction with a reason and how would we tell our dogs why we want them to do what we want them to do. It quite simply works without having an adverse effect on the dog.


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[Smokeycat]

Teaching no as a universal command is done the exact same way as a release word that many people use to allow a dog to stop following a command given earlier such as stay or wait, repetition. Release words tend to be universal, one command ends multiple behaviors and dogs learn that it means 'you did it and can stop now'. Like Season said most is done by tone of voice and also by body language. The dog learns by tone of voice and body language first and eventually associates the word with that tone.
Body language doesn't have to be threatening instead using a neutral body can teach a dog that what they are doing is undesirable. An engaged body tends to teach that what they are doing is desirable. And once a dog learns to follow your body language, and you learn to pay attention to it as well, universal training becomes easy.

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[teodora]

my dogs are my babies but here I disagree with the comparison. A dog is motivated to please the owner. If the dog is not motivated to please the owner, then the owner has no relationship with that dog whatsoever. A child - or an adult - is not necessarily motivated to please. And I don't want my child to be motivated to please. A child is raised to function independently. I don't raise my puppies to be able to run the household one day and pay their own bills.The "I told you so" didn't work in my case as a child because it wasn't relevant from my point of view: so if you told me so, what? I wanted the logical reason. I had something to learn from it. I still expect obedience when I give the dogs commands. My dogs won't learn anything if I put them in sit and get their attention and have a conference to explain that I have mortgage to pay and that's the reason why in our family we don't chew walls and water pipes.

 

[Joao M]

When I praise Solo he knows what it means through the energy. The tone of my voice. Same with no. I don't yell. Don't need to. He knows. Simple as that. So it may seem silly to u but it isn't to me. It works for me and Solo. It's not complicated. Dogs need correction. No one will convince me otherwise. Correction isn't beating your dog as many "positive" ppl try to paint it. In my opinion far more dogs are ruined by all this positive only bs.

My thoughts exaclty.
Going a bit deeper: I come from another country and culture so I may have the wrong impression but by reading some threads in US dog foruns I am amazed by the number of "day-to-day situations" people advise to call a dog behaviorist.
Could that be because the owners cannot say "no" and need professional help to correct simple things using other methods? Or, in a later stage in the dog´s life, because the owners failed to say "no" when that was needed which created more serious issues ?
That´s the impression I get by screening the foruns. But I don´t live in the US or even in an anglo-saxon country so I may be wrong.

Teaching a dog is not rocket science. IMHO you start with consistency and boundaries. Then you add affection/love