Devastated. She tried to bite someone.

[aviatrix]

We have a 14 month old English Mastiff/Cane Corso cross. She has always been fearful, but we socialized her constantly from the time we got her, and up until last night we thought we had her in a good place. She's still cautious, but warms up to people and other dogs after a proper introduction.


We had a friend looking after her while our house is undergoing renovations. This woman has known Dakota since she was a few months old, and they have always gotten along very well. Last night Dakota snapped at her twice, fur up, teeth bared, and then barricaded herself in a bathroom, not letting my friend anywhere close to the door. This went on for over an hour by the time I'd gotten there. As soon as she saw me she was tail wagging and affectionate. However, she acted like my friend was a complete stranger, like she'd never seen her before. I tried introducing her again but she was so worked up, I just took her for a walk and after an hour or so she was calm enough that she'd go in her crate.


Even now that I've gotten her home she's acting strange, not nearly as happy as she usually is, kind of cautious and subdued.


I don't know what to do. She hasn't as much as nipped since she was a few weeks, and we can't have a 125 lbs dog lunging at people. I know that her breed is a famous guard dog, but she's always been submissive, and both my husband and I are very strict with her to keep her in line. We've done obedience training, and socialize her with new dogs and people constantly.


It is just so strange how she went from cuddly and affectionate to dangerously aggressive in minutes. With no obvious trigger. I know for a fact that she wasn't abused by my friend as she is THE gentlest soul on this earth.

So, do I invest the money in sending her to an intensive pack rehab ranch, or do I put her down? I can't have an unpredictable dog. We're both military so we go away for work, and right now I wouldn't trust her with anyone other than us.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Vet check

Any time you have what appears to be a sudden change in personality you need to have a complete vet check done first. Vision, hearing, joints, thyroid/kidney/liver/lyme bloodwork, and anything else your vet feels might be nessecary.

IF the vet check comes back clean then you need to find a behaviorist with giant/guard breed experience to sit down and work with you.

 

[Rugers-Kris]

This is the first issue? Dangerously aggressive? Put her down? I don't want to be rude but what makes you call her dangerously aggressive? It sounds like there was a trigger but you weren't there so you don't know what it is.....Something must have happened, if this is so unusual as you suggest. Have you spoken to your friend and asked her to recall everything that happened at the time that she became so scared? If she was dangerously aggressive she would have actually bitten her, attacked her NOT barricaded herself in a room to hide.

This pup has never bitten a single soul and you are considering putting her down? Maybe you should consider finding her a loving family that will take the time and put the effort that she deserves. I guess I just don't understand how you are so ready to give up on your family member when there has been an issue that did NOT result in any harm.

I am going to stop now and get away from this thread. I am sure that others will chime in and offer more politically correct advice for you.

 

[ruthcatrin]

and no, sending her away is not the solution, except as a most drastic, breeds like this need to bond and work with their owners, not some trainer half the country away

 

[Kujo]

First thing I would do is a vet check, make sure there's nothing going on medically that could be causing this kind of behavior.

Is this the only incident? Have you tried going back to the friends house, or having the friend come to you and see how she responds?

If this has only happened once, with no obvious trigger, don't do anything extreme. Give her a chance, try and figure out what triggered her response, it could be something completely silly like your friend put on a new perfume... definitely not worth losing your dog over.

 

[Bailey's Mom]

Kris is right. One episode that only resulted in a show of teeth and warning snaps plus the turn tail and hide (protect self) is not a dangerous animal. Your friend may be the sweetest soul, but there was a trigger that caused a fear response. She may not know what she did, but it was an action, no matter how insignificant to her or you, it meant the world to your dog.
It sounds like you've put a lot of time, effort and love into creating a stable environment for this dog, please put yourself out there for your pet now.
I second a full work up by the vet, it's the smartest place to start. Just an idea, too, a dog's senses are more highly developed than humans. Could an unusual smell have set her off? The use of an aerosol? Just thinking outside the box. I knew a dog once that freaked out at the smell of blood/bone meal, you would have thought I'd beaten him.

 

[aviatrix]

Let me get one fact straight here. We ARE a loving family. We have worked on her fear aggression with some very prestigious trainers, as we knew from very early she was having issues. She had been doing very well for the last ~6 months. I'd say about a month ago she started getting too rough to play with some smaller dogs she'd been around since we got her at 8 weeks. We took her to the vet then and had all those things checked. Other than an allergy to grains (which we have since rectified) she was a picture of health. The intensive program would be the next step.

As I said, I tried re-introducing her, and she wasn't having any of it. She has been strange with everyone since. I will take her back to the vet just to double check of course, but I can see anything physically wrong with her that's cropped up since she got a full physical 2 weeks ago.

When she's with us she is under control, and submissive, and not a threat. We correct her aggression as soon as it crops up.

The reason I bring up putting her down as an option is because of her sheer size, and a social responsibility we all have as giant breed owners. It would absolutely devastate us to have to take that step, but we can't have her hurt another dog or person. What I was looking for posting here was someone who's been through a sudden aggression escalation, and what they did to successfully solve the problem.

 

[Kujo]

As I said, I tried re-introducing her, and she wasn't having any of it. She has been strange with everyone since. I will take her back to the vet just to double check of course, but I can see anything physically wrong with her that's cropped up since she got a full physical 2 weeks ago.

From your first post it sounded like you tried to reintroduce your friend almost right after the incident, I didn't realize you had treid again later well after the incident. My apologies for misunderstanding this portion of your post.

I'm curious...is she spayed? I'm not as familiar with bitches...but if she is having a heat cycle could that cause a response like this? I've heard of bitches getting a little crabby on their cycle...but I wonder if they could sometimes have an extreme response like this also?

I really do hope this works out for you, sounds like she has a nice family and home with you two

 

[aviatrix]

She was fixed at 6 months. I have heard of bitches turning aggressive around the two year mark, but MOSTLY only intact ones.

 

[fila4me]

also, you mentioned you are doing renovations, so she was staying elsewhere?

this can also lead up to different behavior, also her age can add to it. but, something triggered her reactions and it could be something very,very minuet. possibly something not even noticed.

I have not had to deal with sudden aggression, but have dealt with it from puppyhood with a previous Fila.

have you had friend over for a meeting since it happened? trying the same day the incident happened, was setting your pup up to fail. they may even have to start over from the beginning after this. I do not see any actions by your pup that warrant putting her down or intense training. like mentioned above, both breeds of her mix need to bond with their people and it is even more important when going through something like that.

and do agree with the vet check, things can just pop up.

good luck

 

[fila4me]

just to say, saw were you posted about the re intro after........couldn't edit my post

 

[ruthcatrin]

When she's with us she is under control, and submissive, and not a threat. We correct her aggression as soon as it crops up.

Define "aggression" as you have seen her display it (other than this incident) and what you do to correct it.

Also make sure to tell the vet you are doing this because of a sudden appearence of aggression, it can change what they look for.

 

[taisa899]

Also rather than putting her down as a last resort find a rescue for her. She hasn't actually bitten anybody so rescues will still take her, just be honest with them about her

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[bugboy]

One incident that you didn't witness shouldn't equal a "death sentence'. I had a rescue EM in the late 1980's. Got her when she was about 4-5 y.o. She was fine as long as you didn't mess with me. I had to keep her at work which was a 24 hour manned transmitter site. I came in one afternoon for my shift and one of the guys had a cut across the bridge of his nose. I asked him what happened and he said "your dog bit me". I asked him what he was doing to her and he said "I was feeding her beer and blowing on her ear,,,, then she turned and bit me". I asked him if he thought he would ever do that again and he said he didn't think so. She was fine but didn't like to be "messed" with. Another guy was absent mindedly nudging her foot with his foot, after a dozen or so times she had had enough and snapped at his ankle. That was her way of telling him to cut it out. Once these lessons were learned by the guys, we had no further problems.

 

[taisa899]

If she had really wanted to bite your friend would've been getting stitches or worse

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[Rugers-Kris]

That is my point exactly......She chose NOT to bite.

If she had really wanted to bite your friend would've been getting stitches or worse

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[CeeCee]

I'm glad to hear that you have a vet look at her to rule out any health issues and that you've been working with professionals on her behavior. In my opinion, now is where the real work begins (not that you haven't already been doing that), but it's time to take it to the next level.

If I were in your shoes, I would have three main goals. (1) keep everyone safe (for us teaching Zeek to wear a muzzle was the ticket (2) learn what it is that makes her nervous and puts her in positions where she feels like she needs to back people off and not put her in those positions until she knows her options and can make better decisions (3) do not let one or two incidents define her. I know this can be very hard. We get an image or a thought in our heads and it very hard for us to let it go. We are always worrying about what has happened or what might happen.

She is young, growing, and learning. (I know that I would not want to be defined today by who I was as a teenager). Now is the time where you need to be actively teaching her what is acceptable and what is not and when she gets scared what other choices does she have instead of "aggressing". (For me, when we meet new people, I am very careful not to let people come up to Zeek and approach him, he chooses whether or not he wants to meet people. If he chooses not to, that is perfectly fine and I respect his decision. If he chooses not to then it's my responsibility to keep people out of his space. If he chooses to meet people and he becomes concerned or overwhelmed I am teaching him to come back to me and stay with me. This is just us and what we do.)

If you do not already know her signs or are not familiar with dog body language and what they are communicating, you need to do so ASAP. This will give you insight into what our girl is feeling and thinking and you can intercede BEFORE she feels the need to matters into her own hands.

This is just my two cents. I hope you have the time and energy that your growing girl needs. This forum is a great place to get support and guidance!

One last thought, I would wonder if she really is aggressive. If I had to take a guess, I would say that she is actually yelling her message of fear and concern because her other, more subtle messages, are not being heard.

 

[NYDDB]

If she had really wanted to bite your friend would've been getting stitches or worse

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I also agree.

There was something Cesar Millan (I know, I know...) said once that really did ring true for me. Somebody on the show was trying to explain to him that her dog did not "intend" to bite the other dog...(and so on...). Cesar laughed and said, "Oh, yes he did--- dogs are VERY intentional."

That has stuck with me, for some reason...

 

[NYDDB]

*Tried to edit, but oh, well...*

Anyway, the idea about intention was that the dog cannot be anything but "intentional" in his/her actions- it's up to us humans to figure out the cause of the behavior, without making it better or worse than it actually is (according to our own fears, beliefs, etc.)

Does that make sense?

 

[Primehns]

I know a golden retriever that bit a dog sitter. Maybe she just hates her? I've seen many people work with large breeds after they have actually bitten someone, your dog hasn't bitten anyone, from what i read, he snapped at your dog sitter. I don't believe in not giving a dog a chance. Especially if the dog hasn't bitten. Anything could have triggered that. Putting her down defeats the whole purpose of actual dog rehabilitation. I don't know what else to say other than it's your call, but if i were you i'd get a vet check up, and work with the pup.