Cesar Millan: Opinion

[DMikeM]

If you watch that BB when she tells him to sit he does not sit where she stated but went straight in front of her so he was between the camera man and her. Also if you watch her she is not giving a nice praise for all the times she moved the dog. If brought into her with a positive reaction to what she is asking him to do on the Shock collar.
I am not happy with the FACT that gal is using a Shock collar on the dog for the fact you do not need that. I am not a fan of Sit means Sit either and there techniques but some use them so not meanness to be said.
If the dog was given to me or a few other trainers I know out there they would not use it either. We would be focusing on the problems but working some key eliminates into the program before that dog ever was out in public again. Also if the dog is so HA why is that child in there with him, that is a small space and that child could be attack for the simple fact of the shock collar b/c he could redirect onto the child.
In any training you need a reward and there are 5 of them.
Correction
Vocal
Touch
Food
Toy
All to make a better problem become a reward. This is one thing that CM and most other types of training are missing in there training program.
JMO

Actually Deb the dog was not in training during that video he was just waiting on the trainer. My point is that this dog is being rehomed because it nipped a toddler before training. If you are interested in helping this BB more contact Sharon Bank of the American Boerboel Club. They might need help with others after Dozer and I don't know how long Colby is committed to rehab on Dozer.

 

[joshuagough]

The question posed didn't include CM, nor kicking a dog.

Just simply what would you do if you were working with a aggressive dog and it tried to attack you while on a leash. It happens a good bit with folks that work with red zone cases, once the dog is in attack mode your not going to be able to put a muzzle on it. I understand there are things you would do prior to the attack but that aside you did all those things, now you have the dog on the leash and no muzzle and it tries to jump up at you to attack.

What do you do? At this point we can't go back and add to nor take from the situation. Again this is a question only and your right this typically wouldn't ever happen to most of the folks on this forum.

The reason I was thinking about this is was the CM wolf situation as we said he was 1. wrong for kick the dog (I agree) , 2. the dog went after him because of it (agree also).. that's all great and good but he wasn't going to stand a get bit, nor would any of us, so what was he to do?

@joshuagough, I would have gotten bit because I am not going to choke out a dog that I pissed off by sticking my foot in his gut. I would have pulled the leash back until I could get my hands on some fur and hold him down while telling him no and trying to calm him whil my helpers got a muzzle on his face. You are creating a scenario that can't exist for most of us here as we would not put ourselves in this position. If someone told me they had a DA husky/wolf they wanted me to work with I would have a muzzle to start with until I gained the dogs trust once that was done then I would be able to work with the dog. I have worked with agressive dogs before and just plain know better than to piss one off just to elicit a reaction from them.

---------- Post added at 06:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:56 PM ----------

You didn't say that you didn't work with a backup, you said you would. I said "If you don't".. some people wouldn't, so there for your left with pepper spray.

Please tell me where I said I DON'T work with backup and pepper spray on the occasion I deal with a know aggressive dog??

How about you stop reading with your bias turned on. I DID answer your question. Repeatedly. And it was in the over and over and over examples of how to avoid it. I 'got emotional' cause dealing with people who don't understand simple basic words pisses me off. The plain and simple FACT is that I'm not so stupid as to put myself in that situation in the first place. THAT is real life. If what you wanted was a truely fictional hypothetical 'you're the jackass tv star who put yourself in this situation' type of theory then you need to say so instead of insisting I'm avoiding the question you never asked.

 

[joshuagough]

above

 

[DMikeM]

I did answer the question. I said I would get bit because I would pull back on the leash and gain control of the dog. It can be done, I have done it and was able to calm the dog down enough to walk it back to it's kennel with just one small bit to the arm. And this dog was a full grown male Rottie. I am still not going to choke the dog out regardless. Although I must admit to killing a dog that attacked me at a public park by breaking his neck. There was nothing else I could do and I was young and did not know as much about dogs then as I do now and I was only about 165lb then.

 

[joshuagough]

Your right Ruth, CM is the devil and I can't read simple words..

You're totally missing Cody's point. Please provide us with an example of a mastiff and/or guardian type breed where CM 'trained' the dog using techniques such as or including including his version of the alpha roll where the dog appears to be living happily ever after for the original owner. The boerboel doesn't count as apparently its not all 'happily ever after' for the owner featured in the episode, regardless of the varios recolections of the episode.

 

[chuckorlando]

IF instead of kicking the dog that last time CM had just continued to move out he very very likely could have avoided the whole scene


Maybe I'm missing something here, but seems the above was Ruths answer is she was in the identical situation

 

[joshuagough]

You did answer the question but you mentioned kicking the dog so i was trying to clarify my question.

To pull back if the dog was jumping up, you would take step away from the dog and keep this up until he wore out, or use the leash to put him to the ground?

I did answer the question. I said I would get bit because I would pull back on the leash and gain control of the dog. It can be done, I have done it and was able to calm the dog down enough to walk it back to it's kennel with just one small bit to the arm. And this dog was a full grown male Rottie. I am still not going to choke the dog out regardless. Although I must admit to killing a dog that attacked me at a public park by breaking his neck. There was nothing else I could do and I was young and did not know as much about dogs then as I do now and I was only about 165lb then.

---------- Post added at 06:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:43 PM ----------

You right about CM and being able to avoid the wolf attacking him but there's situations trainers get into with a dog on a leash and the dog goes after them.. that was my question.

IF instead of kicking the dog that last time CM had just continued to move out he very very likely could have avoided the whole scene


Maybe I'm missing something here, but seems the above was Ruths answer is she was in the identical situation

 

[joshuagough]

You right about CM and being able to avoid the wolf attacking him but there's situations trainers get into with a dog on a leash and the dog goes after them.. that was my question.

IF instead of kicking the dog that last time CM had just continued to move out he very very likely could have avoided the whole scene


Maybe I'm missing something here, but seems the above was Ruths answer is she was in the identical situation

 

[Geisthexe]

The question posed didn't include CM, nor kicking a dog.

Just simply what would you do if you were working with a aggressive dog and it tried to attack you while on a leash. It happens a good bit with folks that work with red zone cases, once the dog is in attack mode your not going to be able to put a muzzle on it. I understand there are things you would do prior to the attack but that aside you did all those things, now you have the dog on the leash and no muzzle and it tries to jump up at you to attack.

What do you do? At this point we can't go back and add to nor take from the situation. Again this is a question only and your right this typically wouldn't ever happen to most of the folks on this forum.

The reason I was thinking about this is was the CM wolf situation as we said he was 1. wrong for kick the dog (I agree) , 2. the dog went after him because of it (agree also).. that's all great and good but he wasn't going to stand a get bit, nor would any of us, so what was he to do?

Well let me answer this question b/c I have had this happen to me with a Neo.
I had the leash in my hand speaking to the owner about the problems. I went to walk the Neo to see what he would do as I took him for a walk. He tried to go after an owner walking her dog. I pulled the dog back to me and redirected his aggression at me. I pulled up on the leash (not choking him) and I kept jumping out of his way until I was able to get to a corner of a yard that had a fence. I got the dog on one side and me on the other and that point I tied the leash to the fence. After the dog settled I had the owner go untie the dog and we walked back to his home.
So does that answer your question?
I can tell you I have been bit 13 times by aggressive dogs, Not counting the emerg vet tech job or the decoying but just plain dogs that are either dog are claimed to get HA / DA. Not proud of this but I do understand it can happen if you are not careful. Now I ask when it will be adult dogs and whats there issues before I go b/c I have no problem taking out soft bite sleeves with me and wearing them when I get a hold of the dog, b/c being a decoy and I can have the dog redirected to bringing the bite to one of them and slipping the sleeve so the do takes it out on the sleeve.

Thought I would answer your question for you!!

---------- Post added at 07:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:43 PM ----------

 

[Geisthexe]

Actually Deb the dog was not in training during that video he was just waiting on the trainer. My point is that this dog is being rehomed because it nipped a toddler before training. If you are interested in helping this BB more contact Sharon Bank of the American Boerboel Club. They might need help with others after Dozer and I don't know how long Colby is committed to rehab on Dozer.

Mike Thanks for clearing up why you posted the video, where are ABC located? Is this dog needing to be rehomed or trained? I do not keep dogs in need of rescue but I do have a training program for foster dogs and dogs that need behavior rehab.

 

[DMikeM]

Mike Thanks for clearing up why you posted the video, where are ABC located? Is this dog needing to be rehomed or trained? I do not keep dogs in need of rescue but I do have a training program for foster dogs and dogs that need behavior rehab.

The Dozer story is on the FaceBook Page they have a website too. Looks like they found a home for Dozer though. http://www.americanboerboelclub.com/ and http://www.facebook.com/groups/138703790036/ I agree with you though not real fond of the e-collar.

---------- Post added at 07:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:03 PM ----------

You did answer the question but you mentioned kicking the dog so i was trying to clarify my question.

To pull back if the dog was jumping up, you would take step away from the dog and keep this up until he wore out, or use the leash to put him to the ground?



---------- Post added at 06:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:43 PM ----------

You right about CM and being able to avoid the wolf attacking him but there's situations trainers get into with a dog on a leash and the dog goes after them.. that was my question.

You pull back and down until the dog submits 90% of the time the dog will not try to get at you but will try to get away. Both CM and myself got those 10% dogs but I still won because when the dog bit my arm he was shocked to have scored a hit. I grabbed his scruff and the lead and forced him to the ground. He let my arm go and actually fully submitted to me. I was able to walk him calmly to his kennel at this point. From then on me and him we buddies and I was able to help the owner gain his dogs trust back. I think the owner hit or kicked his dog at some time and totally lost respect and control of the dog. About a year later I talked him into rehoming the dog and everything worked out real good.

 

[DMikeM]

You did answer the question but you mentioned kicking the dog so i was trying to clarify my question.

To pull back if the dog was jumping up, you would take step away from the dog and keep this up until he wore out, or use the leash to put him to the ground?



---------- Post added at 06:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:43 PM ----------

You right about CM and being able to avoid the wolf attacking him but there's situations trainers get into with a dog on a leash and the dog goes after them.. that was my question.

You pull back and down until the dog submits 90% of the time the dog will not try to get at you but will try to get away. Both CM and myself got those 10% dogs but I still won because when the dog bit my arm he was shocked to have scored a hit. I grabbed his scruff and the lead and forced him to the ground. He let my arm go and actually fully submitted to me. I was able to walk him calmly to his kennel at this point. From then on me and him we buddies and I was able to help the owner gain his dogs trust back. I think the owner hit or kicked his dog at some time and totally lost respect and control of the dog. About a year later I talked him into rehoming the dog and everything worked out real good.

 

[Geisthexe]

The Dozer story is on the FaceBook Page they have a website too. Looks like they found a home for Dozer though. http://www.americanboerboelclub.com/ and http://www.facebook.com/groups/138703790036/ I agree with you though not real fond of the e-collar.
.

Thats great they found him a home. I hope this time it works out
As for ecollars, I will admit I have them but I use them ONLY when I go hiking. I will put them on the dogs and use the vibration so they know when to return and if they get out of eye site range. with the Presa I usually dont need them at all but on my Malinois I do b/c they love to chase & run. But as for using them in training NOPE I have had trainers I have trained with in the past while I am getting ready for a trial and tell him get your e collar out .. NOPE if I cant get them to do what I need on my own then WE are not ready for the trial ..

 

[joshuagough]

Yes, good answer and insight. I'b be willing to bet this situation has happened to not only trainers, doubt its a every day event but I'd rather have a plan than to ask questions later.

Thanks

Well let me answer this question b/c I have had this happen to me with a Neo.
I had the leash in my hand speaking to the owner about the problems. I went to walk the Neo to see what he would do as I took him for a walk. He tried to go after an owner walking her dog. I pulled the dog back to me and redirected his aggression at me. I pulled up on the leash (not choking him) and I kept jumping out of his way until I was able to get to a corner of a yard that had a fence. I got the dog on one side and me on the other and that point I tied the leash to the fence. After the dog settled I had the owner go untie the dog and we walked back to his home.
So does that answer your question?
I can tell you I have been bit 13 times by aggressive dogs, Not counting the emerg vet tech job or the decoying but just plain dogs that are either dog are claimed to get HA / DA. Not proud of this but I do understand it can happen if you are not careful. Now I ask when it will be adult dogs and whats there issues before I go b/c I have no problem taking out soft bite sleeves with me and wearing them when I get a hold of the dog, b/c being a decoy and I can have the dog redirected to bringing the bite to one of them and slipping the sleeve so the do takes it out on the sleeve.

Thought I would answer your question for you!!

---------- Post added at 07:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:43 PM ----------

 

[Sadies Mom]

Here is Sadie opinion on CM

 

[chuckorlando]

ahahahahahahaa

 

[cwayaustx]

lmbo go sadie!!
I was expecting to see a pile of poo on the book...

 

[Geisthexe]

Poor Sadie was subjected to having the Satans bible in her home ..

 

[Sadies Mom]

Poor Sadie was subjected to having the Satans bible in her home ..

Don't worry, I did not pay for the book. It was given to me as a gift many years ago after he had been on the Oprah Show. My Sister-in Law used to work there

 

[Geisthexe]

Poor sister n law was subjected to CM & OW ... Lol