BB bit my son need help

[joepro]

Hey my 8 month old pup bit my 5 year old son this morning *quick back story my son is here every other weekend but has a really good relationship with the dog they play well together outside of the fact the dog doesn't realize how big he is in comparison so usually in the first couple of mins he has to be reminded no jumping after that they're good. This morning starts as any other my son is eating breakfast first (to enforce alpha) while doing so as usual he slips him some slices of his pancakes and a piece of bacon. During breakfast my wife is upstairs and kicks his big bone out her way which made him think someone's at the door. He barks and goes into defense mode. I let him bark and try to calm him down by rubbing his back and chest at this point it's time to eat so I call him to his feeding area. He's still a little hyped up but he's calming down as usual I have my son tell him sit and stay until he puts his food down. After he puts the food down. He tells him go eat and points at the bowl the dog growls a bit. Oversight on my part is I thought he was still growling at the door as this is a normal ritual and he's never growled not once at anybody with his food. My son points and says go eat again and he bites him doesn't break the skin just a few welps on his arm. Me in my rage I'll be honest I roughed him up pretty bad nothing to permanently injure him permanently or majorly jus a really bad spanking on the hind quarters I picked him up by the scruff of his neck and literally threw him into his cage. What's the next move. My instinct is get rid of him

 

[PrinceLorde13]

Ya you should follow your instinct, there were so many opportunities for this situation to be stopped well before it started from coddling a mastiff being aggressive, to allowing a 5y/o to handle his food. Then the worst of it all you hitting your dog for your mistakes. I'm not trying to be insulting in the least, mastiff ownership is not for everyone and that's ok. I would try and find your pup a home with people that have experience with mastiffs. I'm sorry your son was bitten thank god no blood, if you decide to keep your dog I highly suggest you do A LOT of reading on the breed and training them and people here will gladly help you through it myself included

 

[DennasMom]

I hate to say it... but I think I may agree with PrinceLorde13.

An 8 month old pup is potentially entering that 'testing' phase...
So when your son enters his 'testing' phase and gets a speeding ticket or arrested for weed, are you going to kick him out, too??
If you could so easily "get rid of him"... wow. I just don't know what to say.

From the limited information available via text, here's my response: This bite was your fault. You are the adult. The dog is still a puppy. You didn't provide enough space for the puppy to calm down between the incident with the "door" and dinner time. He did not break the skin (which he easily could have if he was serious). A 'sibling' was putting fingers in his face near food - and he wanted to let that 'sibling' know to stay away... He growled as a warning, which was ignored, so he took it one step further... thus, the snap.

I understand your over-reaction, but it could have made things worse. A human prone to 'rage' and a mastiff is not a good combination. Your mastiff is a reflection of you. If you over-react... your dog will learn to do the same... and when he's full grown, that is a potentially lethal problem.

Thank you for being honest. I think you need to think about what happened and what you would have done differently in hind-sight... be truthful - was this a "bad dog being bad" or was this a bad situation that was poorly handled? If the latter, that can be fixed with knowledge and training (both you as the 'trainer' and the dog as the 'trainee').

If you don't think you're up for the challenge of working with an independent breed like a mastiff - then a new home for the puppy might be the best for everyone.
I hope your son is recovering well and doesn't hold a grudge against the dog for the event.

 

[joepro]

It's definitely a bad situation handled poorly. My son doesn't care one bit and wants to feed him his lunch I'm like no not at all. I think the testing phase thing is exactly what it was. He never been food aggressive to the point from 8 weeks to 8 months my son wife and I have been able to pick up his food bowl while he is eating without a inkling of a problem or aggression anything. I have noticed in the past few weeks he has been trying to test me. I'd rather not get rid of him but and realize he didn't try to 'hurt' him because as u said he good have broken the skin if he wanted to but I'm leaning on the side of safety

 

[joepro]

If I were to keep him what's the best way to progress

 

[Jakesmum]

I agree with the other comments made. That being said I would suggest you hire a trainer to work with the whole family and the dog so that all of you can learn the signals and body language of the dog and how to properly diffuse a situation before it even begins. One thing I learned from raising a mastiff (and any dog for that matter) when you hire a trainer or go to training classes it's not so much as training the dog how to behave (that's only a small part of it), it's training you how to properly communicate with the dog and what to do in different situations. Always remember that even though they are a part of the family that ultimately they are a powerful dog who you must learn to properly handle.

 

[DDSK]

I think the first stage is to control your anger and not let it loose on the mastiff, they do not respond well to that type of punishment.
Second I would study up on training techniques for mastiffs, there are many hints here on the forum.
Third I would not have my 5 year old feed the dog without very close supervision.

 

[Ginurse]

Please don't ever hit your mastiff, because you are setting him up to be fear-aggressive. When he reaches his adult weight, you don't want to be in a position of having to challenge your pup, because he may win?

The other day, my six year old was playing with my EM in the backyard: she was pulling on him, and he bit her (no skin breaks) because he thought he was playing with a fellow pup. My husband freaked out, but calmed down when I explained that our pup wasn't wrong, WE WERE.

It's difficult with young kids, but at the end of the day, we are the adults, and we need to teach our kids to interact appropriately with dogs. Period. It was our fault that the dog nipped at our kid. He didn't do it out of malice; we weren't watching the play between pup and kid closely enough. The argument between my husband and I, was stellar, and he finally came around.

The mastiff breed is one of the most stubborn breeds ever. It may not be a good mix for your family. If you feel the need to beat your pup, then I would say it's probably time to re-home it. There are some lovely families out there who would probably love the heck out of your pup?

None of the above was meant to be harsh, just honest.

Edit to add: Princelorde said it better than I did, and I very much agree with the post.

 

[karennj]

Number one, supervise all interactions between your son and the dog.
Number two, hire a trainer with bully/mastiff experience to come into the home. Where are you located? Maybe we can help you find someone.

We can give you all sorts of advice but you need someone to come in and see it in person to give you a proper assessment/plan.

 

[joepro]

Ok everybody thanks for the advice jus want to clear up a few things

I think 'rage' might have been the wrong word for me to use earlier. I think any of you can agree seeing a 100+ pound dog bite your small child half his size causes you to react without thinking. It's not a home where I'm beating the dog or using violence to solve a problem. It was just the first reaction in the situation of my son being bit.

Second all interaction between my son is very closely monitored due to the size difference I'm always right in the mix while they interact. When the food was placed this morning all 3 of us were in arms reach of each other with the dog in the middle me standing directly to his right shoulder and my son to the left. Also with my son as usual being able to give the commands slouch as sit stay lay and the dog following directions

With me not trying to push blame or anything in hindsight there's tons of things that could have been done to diffuse the situation correctly just wanted you all to have a proper view on the home

 

[karennj]

Don't be too hard on yourself. I probably would have done the same exact thing in the heat of the moment. If any of my dogs ever purposely bit my child all hell is breaking loose. Yes, it is absolutely the wrong response but a lot of people would lose it, just learn from the experience. Now you know your dog is capable of actually making contact so you will be better able to handle the situation going forward. I have found it is better to bring calm vs. chaos.

As far as the dog, resource guarding (if that is what the problem is here) is very common and can be fixed or at the very least managed. Lots of dogs resource guard certain things but are perfectly fine otherwise. It is a NORMAL reaction and a trainer can absolutely help you with that. If it is something more, again, a good trainer can help you.

There are very few dogs that are beyond help. If you are willing to put in the work, I will repeat that again....IF you are willing to put in the work, I am sure you can fix this. Lots of dogs are absolute pain in the rears during the teenager phase. I have read more than a few times on the forums between here and the great dane forum of dogs who were HORRIBLE during the teenager phase but ended up being an awesome adult (with work).

So, the first question you should be asking yourself is.....are you willing to put in work to make your pup everything you wanted him to be? It could be as easy as resource guarding around food or as difficult as a PITA male adolescent who needs a whole exercise, management and training plan. Are you willing to give your pup the best possible shot?

 

[cj-sharpy]

Sounds like a preventable situation that you handled badly. Id say learn from your mistakes (everyone makes them) and move on.
I Think My Dog Might Bite My Kidsm Glad | Dogs and Babies

Have a read of this too.

 

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

I think you have gotten some great advise here and the getting a trainer to come in is I think your best bet.

One thing I don't agree on is not allowing your children to handle the food. I have a 3 year old and a 5 year old and they are responsible for helping me to feed my dogs, removing the bowls and other little tasks with the dogs. I think the situation that you chose to feed the dog in was more a problem, I don't feed my dogs when they are keyed up from anything. They would simply wait longer to eat until they can be calm, if they don't want to then no meal for them that night.

 

[PrinceLorde13]

Black shadow I would agree about the food if it was a child that lived with the dogs on a regular basis which I'm assuming yours do. But anyway im going to start from the beginning to try and help anyway I can.
First: of course it's normal for a natural guardian dog to become agitated when they think someone may be arriving on their turf, once your dog enters this state hugging and petting to stop it are not recommend as this gives the dog a form of reward for barking and growling when no danger was present, the dog links these and believes this behavior is what you want, as the dog barks or growles, even right before, if you can stop it with a firm no, a snap of the fingers, a hissing noise, coins in a can etc. something that stops the pups brain from focusing on aggression.
Second: no matter what your watch or schedule says do not even begin the feeding process until your dog has dropped the aggression and is now in a calm state, again feeding while agitated teaches the dog they are rewarded with food for aggression and can also heighten resource guarding a lot if it's given while the dog is already in guard mode, I believe this is why your son was bitten.
Finally: if your dog does something horrible stay calm or you could just make it a lot worse, hitting can cause a mastiff to shut down and no longer want to obey your commands and can lead to the dog attempting to defend themselves and real bites and blood can ensue and I'm sure no one wants that. Punishing a dog is debated much like punishing a child so im not gonna say what's right or wrong just let you know how my guys are punished. A quick hard no is an immediate, I've never had a situation escalate to the level you did so my punishments might seem to "nice" for you but hopefully with a new way with your dog you will never have a situation get to this level again. After no it's right to their bed(crate) and that's where they satay for whatever length of time I see fit. I've never had a problem past this, my dogs act like they just got beat they look so sad when I'm mad at the, the psychological factor of knowing they disappointed me seems devastating to them and seems to be a great training tool here. Again any questions you may have feel free to ask me or the forum between all of us there is virtually no situation some of us haven't encountered

 

[season]

Ya you should follow your instinct, there were so many opportunities for this situation to be stopped well before it started from coddling a mastiff being aggressive, to allowing a 5y/o to handle his food. Then the worst of it all you hitting your dog for your mistakes. I'm not trying to be insulting in the least, mastiff ownership is not for everyone and that's ok. I would try and find your pup a home with people that have experience with mastiffs. I'm sorry your son was bitten thank god no blood, if you decide to keep your dog I highly suggest you do A LOT of reading on the breed and training them and people here will gladly help you through it myself included

Totally agree. I don't put any blame on the dog. And don't blame it on a phase....in this situation that's an excuse. When things like this happen it's a tough pill to swallow but it was your fault. Not the dog's.

 

[season]

Black shadow I would agree about the food if it was a child that lived with the dogs on a regular basis which I'm assuming yours do. But anyway im going to start from the beginning to try and help anyway I can.
First: of course it's normal for a natural guardian dog to become agitated when they think someone may be arriving on their turf, once your dog enters this state hugging and petting to stop it are not recommend as this gives the dog a form of reward for barking and growling when no danger was present, the dog links these and believes this behavior is what you want, as the dog barks or growles, even right before, if you can stop it with a firm no, a snap of the fingers, a hissing noise, coins in a can etc. something that stops the pups brain from focusing on aggression.
Second: no matter what your watch or schedule says do not even begin the feeding process until your dog has dropped the aggression and is now in a calm state, again feeding while agitated teaches the dog they are rewarded with food for aggression and can also heighten resource guarding a lot if it's given while the dog is already in guard mode, I believe this is why your son was bitten.
Finally: if your dog does something horrible stay calm or you could just make it a lot worse, hitting can cause a mastiff to shut down and no longer want to obey your commands and can lead to the dog attempting to defend themselves and real bites and blood can ensue and I'm sure no one wants that. Punishing a dog is debated much like punishing a child so im not gonna say what's right or wrong just let you know how my guys are punished. A quick hard no is an immediate, I've never had a situation escalate to the level you did so my punishments might seem to "nice" for you but hopefully with a new way with your dog you will never have a situation get to this level again. After no it's right to their bed(crate) and that's where they satay for whatever length of time I see fit. I've never had a problem past this, my dogs act like they just got beat they look so sad when I'm mad at the, the psychological factor of knowing they disappointed me seems devastating to them and seems to be a great training tool here. Again any questions you may have feel free to ask me or the forum between all of us there is virtually no situation some of us haven't encountered

Touche'

 

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

yes they do live with my dogs, but even if they were there part time it would still be the way it works. No dog in my house is above family, even part time family. I have a no tolerance policy when it comes to dogs and kids.

 

[season]

yes they do live with my dogs, but even if they were there part time it would still be the way it works. No dog in my house is above family, even part time family. I have a no tolerance policy when it comes to dogs and kids.

Touche'

 

[cj-sharpy]

Agree never pet a dog to calm it from an agitated state. There's a huge debate over reinforcing aggression that I won't get in to but I will say that if you watch police or military dog handlers they get the dog ready to attack and pet it. One hand on collar one hand stroking or patting the animal. It a way of saying "yes this is the right frame of mind for this situation." So never pet or stroke when they are wound up.
In this house dinner is not put in front of him until he is calm and collected and focused on me.


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[cj-sharpy]

Doggone Safe: Supporting the Child Dog Bite Victim


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